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2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Lockout in Effect. Thanks Gary/Donald! PART II

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10-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #201
Dupree13
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Hockey this year is a go.

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10-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The players getting paid the full value of their current contracts signed under the old CBA will hinge on future growth.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...elated-revenue
That's what I figured.

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10-16-2012, 02:12 PM
  #203
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
What's not to like about this from the PA's perspective?
Bettman said there is a nine day window here... And I suspect the players will certainly try to move their share up a couple of percentage points, bargain down years of service and age to reach FA, get RS to 220... The devil is in the details and we have to see how exactly the league is attaching future growth to guarantee current contracts.

This opens up a big door to negotiate, but it isn't over yet, unfortunately.

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10-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Bettman said there is a nine day window here... And I suspect the players will certainly try to move their share up a couple of percentage points, bargain down years of service and age to reach FA, get RS to 220... The devil is in the details and we have to see how exactly the league is attaching future growth to guarantee current contracts.

This opens up a big door to negotiate, but it isn't over yet, unfortunately.
Exactly. The players aren't just going to rush to sign this. They will take at least a day or 2 to understand the offer and negotiate off this proposal. My guess is a counter offer comes on Friday but it will likely have push backs on % of HRR (if they accept 50-50 at all they will want gradual reduction), increase max contracts to 7-8 years and UFA status stays at 7. I really hope the players take this offer seriously.

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10-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #205
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Exactly. The players aren't just going to rush to sign this. They will take at least a day or 2 to understand the offer and negotiate off this proposal. My guess is a counter offer comes on Friday but it will likely have push backs on % of HRR (if they accept 50-50 at all they will want gradual reduction), increase max contracts to 7-8 years and UFA status stays at 7. I really hope the players take this offer seriously.
I believe they will take it seriously, but like we both said, they will have counter proposals. I think they could make those push backs in a day or so. The thing I am worried about is how much growth is needed to protect the full value of their contracts? That could be a major sticking point.

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10-16-2012, 02:47 PM
  #206
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Man, if NHLPA doesn't take a 50/50 split then I don't know what.

Happy to see that things are finally looking up.

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10-16-2012, 02:54 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
Man, if NHLPA doesn't take a 50/50 split then I don't know what.

Happy to see that things are finally looking up.
Wow am I super nervous now. This could be it, we could have a full season. On the other hand, I don't trust Fehr to not screw this up. Very good offer from the NHL in comparison to the other leagues, and they left themselves a little room to negotiate further this week.

I really think this is close to the best offer the NHL is willing to make the players, and I think it's coming out now has everything to do with recent bad publicity regarding the Focus Group debacle, and the pressure they are getting from their advertising partners.

This was pretty much the final position NHL was looking to negotiate to, but instead they just threw it on the table now to put the pressure back on Fehr and the PA in the hopes of getting a whole season in. This shows fan's and advertisers that the NHL is serious about ending the Lockout and playing games..

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:56 PM
  #208
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
Man, if NHLPA doesn't take a 50/50 split then I don't know what.

Happy to see that things are finally looking up.
There are a number of things they will want changed.

Just take a look at one aspect of the league's new offer... They moved the terms of UFA up one year from 7 years of service to 8 or 27 years of age to 28 respectively. That is potential millions out of players' pockets if they accept that. I can't see them cutting down their percentage of revenue to 50 and losing a year of UFA also.

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10-16-2012, 03:38 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There are a number of things they will want changed.

Just take a look at one aspect of the league's new offer... They moved the terms of UFA up one year from 7 years of service to 8 or 27 years of age to 28 respectively. That is potential millions out of players' pockets if they accept that. I can't see them cutting down their percentage of revenue to 50 and losing a year of UFA also.
The NHL would have been stupid to not keep some terms in there that are negotiable down. the UFA age is probably one of them (though they probably want it raised, I don't think they are willing to risk the season over it). They will probably accept a longer contract limit too. I doubt they are too open to negotiating a split other than 50/50 though.

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10-16-2012, 03:46 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
The NHL would have been stupid to not keep some terms in there that are negotiable down. the UFA age is probably one of them (though they probably want it raised, I don't think they are willing to risk the season over it). They will probably accept a longer contract limit too. I doubt they are too open to negotiating a split other than 50/50 though.
Yeah, I agree. This way if the players come back with 51/49 (or something else the owners really don't want to give on) they can counter back with concessions on contract length or UFA age and each side can say they got the other side to sacrifice.

Conversely, I expect the players to come back with 50/50 revenue, 27 or 7 years UFA, and no change to contract structure.

I think the final deal will have the same UFA age, longer entry level contracts, and restrictions on yearly salary decline with no limit or term.

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10-16-2012, 03:48 PM
  #211
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I believe that the NHLPA is having a meeting at 5pm to discuss the deal with their correspondents/players.

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10-16-2012, 03:51 PM
  #212
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
The NHL would have been stupid to not keep some terms in there that are negotiable down. the UFA age is probably one of them (though they probably want it raised, I don't think they are willing to risk the season over it). They will probably accept a longer contract limit too. I doubt they are too open to negotiating a split other than 50/50 though.
Ya they obviously put things in they will take pushbacks on. That's why it's funny how people think the PA should accept it RIGHT NOW! Please. There will probably be a lot of back and forth pushes the next week or so.

I think they will offer 53 or 54 of HRR, something like that. Use it as leverage to get other concessions. Would be kind of foolish not to, but we'll see.

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10-16-2012, 04:00 PM
  #213
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The NHLPA won't accept 4-year ELCs nor a maximum lenght for contract. That stuff will go in order for the PA to accept to go to 50/50 as soon as this year.

Now, I love the fact that we have 10M$ in cap space. We still will have cap room even with the new rules. Some teams are in deep ****.

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10-16-2012, 04:01 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There are a number of things they will want changed.

Just take a look at one aspect of the league's new offer... They moved the terms of UFA up one year from 7 years of service to 8 or 27 years of age to 28 respectively. That is potential millions out of players' pockets if they accept that. I can't see them cutting down their percentage of revenue to 50 and losing a year of UFA also.
While I agree with you that the players will argue about UFA being raised, in the end it really doesn't matter. 50% of HRR is 50% of HRR. ELC length, UFA age, contract length.... it's all about how that 50% gets divided among the players. Without a cap linked to revenue, UFA age is HUGE, now not so much.

I would like to see more details because nothing I have seen so far would address the asinine second contracts that we have seen since this cap was implemented. This is also why UFA matters less now because teams are locking up players with that second contract and very few "name players" are making it to UFA.

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10-16-2012, 04:10 PM
  #215
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The NHL is just hoping the players sign off on the 50/50 without rollbacks and the system they put in place so the players don't lose or probably won't lose much on their current contracts.

If they can get the players to sign off on those things, the rest is pretty quickly hammered out. There won't be waiting for days to come up with reworks on it. They will hammer it out, til it's done and won't stop cuz they want an 82 game season just as much as the owners do.

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10-16-2012, 04:20 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
The NHLPA won't accept 4-year ELCs nor a maximum lenght for contract. That stuff will go in order for the PA to accept to go to 50/50 as soon as this year.

Now, I love the fact that we have 10M$ in cap space. We still will have cap room even with the new rules. Some teams are in deep ****.
That was a false report and wasnt part of the offer.

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10-16-2012, 04:33 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
While I agree with you that the players will argue about UFA being raised, in the end it really doesn't matter. 50% of HRR is 50% of HRR. ELC length, UFA age, contract length.... it's all about how that 50% gets divided among the players. Without a cap linked to revenue, UFA age is HUGE, now not so much.

I would like to see more details because nothing I have seen so far would address the asinine second contracts that we have seen since this cap was implemented. This is also why UFA matters less now because teams are locking up players with that second contract and very few "name players" are making it to UFA.
I agree with that the second contract "problem" is an issue but don't know how it can be addressed other than to increase length of ELC's which won't fly. I mean the owners are offering these deals. I guess the way to address it is to limit term length which they currently have at 5 years. You won't be signing many guys out of their ELC's to inflated dollars if there isn't much time to grow into the contract before the next one.

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10-16-2012, 04:35 PM
  #218
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oh man. i feel like a kid on christmas eve. Take the deal NHLPA! I'm psyched for some hockey!

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10-16-2012, 04:44 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Am told league offer also will allow teams to go over salary cap in Year 1 - up to $70 M max - as part of transition rules
booooo, there goes a big advantage the pens could potentially have.

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10-16-2012, 04:58 PM
  #220
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Real_ESPNLeBrun - Am told entry-level contracts (rookies) in new league offer is 2 years...
Unexpected

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10-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #221
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
Unexpected
hmm. If that's true, the only thing I can think of is owners feel that it will help keep value of 2nd contracts down. So guys making 800-950k in entry level for 2 years come out and make 4 years 3 mil instead of 3 years 900k and then 3 years 4.5 mil or something like that. Just an example.

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10-16-2012, 05:09 PM
  #222
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First day of positive feeling on the season in a long time.

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10-16-2012, 05:16 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
hmm. If that's true, the only thing I can think of is owners feel that it will help keep value of 2nd contracts down. So guys making 800-950k in entry level for 2 years come out and make 4 years 3 mil instead of 3 years 900k and then 3 years 4.5 mil or something like that. Just an example.
That actually can be a big advantage to the team and not the player. A lot of rookies take a few seasons to really build up their value. When their elc expires after 2 seasons they be locked up on the cheap when compared with what they'd likely be locked up at after 3 or 4 years.

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10-16-2012, 05:17 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
booooo, there goes a big advantage the pens could potentially have.
I see it as a big advantage next offseason as teams might be able to go over now but will still be scrambling to drop cap space. It'll really hurt the values of next offseason's UFA class as well.

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10-16-2012, 05:22 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
That actually can be a big advantage to the team and not the player. A lot of rookies take a few seasons to really build up their value. When their elc expires after 2 seasons they be locked up on the cheap when compared with what they'd likely be locked up at after 3 or 4 years.
On the other hand the player can agree to only sign a short deal after year do if he feels he havent paned out to what he could. I doubt the NHLPA will oppose this.

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