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WBS Penguins Hockey PART I

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10-22-2012, 04:57 PM
  #301
Jacob
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I still shudder when I think we could have drafted Kunetzov instead of Bennett. Redonk pick on Shero's part in the first round. Every team should have 2 players named Evgeni. We had to see this coming when WBS let their top 5 scorers walk last year.
Bennett isn't Kuznetsov, but by most indications he's had a good start to his pro career. Even had 5 SOG on Saturday.

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10-22-2012, 05:07 PM
  #302
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Very disappointing start for WBS. The (lack of) offense is not much of a surprise, but you'd think we'd be a little stronger defensively?

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10-22-2012, 05:42 PM
  #303
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I think Beau might be a better NHL'er than AHL'er. He's going to do well when he has guys feeding him pucks.

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10-22-2012, 06:52 PM
  #304
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I think Beau might be a better NHL'er than AHL'er. He's going to do well when he has guys feeding him pucks.
And vice-versa. He looks to be a pretty crafty one-touch passer.

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10-22-2012, 07:41 PM
  #305
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I think Beau might be a better NHL'er than AHL'er. He's going to do well when he has guys feeding him pucks.
Well right now he looks slow and would get killed against NHL defensemen. Kuznetsov would have been a much better pick by far, stop making excuses for Mr. I Developed One Player, Ray Shero

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10-22-2012, 08:28 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by steelcityassault View Post
Well right now he looks slow and would get killed against NHL defensemen. Kuznetsov would have been a much better pick by far, stop making excuses for Mr. I Developed One Player, Ray Shero
Looking slow in the AHL is not a good look

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10-22-2012, 08:30 PM
  #307
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Kuznetsov's a great pick if you can convince him to come over to North America.
Regardless, I'd rather have the rights to Kuny if he ever came to the NHL than have full rights to Bennett in the AHL. One will be an all-star, the other will be lucky to be TK. For the record, I'm not too bad either when I have someone doing all the work and feeding me pucks in the crease. Bennett needs to show he can contribute and produce on his own account. I hope he does as much as anyone, but I am skeptical until then.

I have no problem with him as a high risk 2nd rounder, but a first was (again) a bit of a reach pick for the Pens.

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10-22-2012, 08:42 PM
  #308
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It is early in BB's pro career. It will take time. He didn't get a single point in his first 9 or so college games. He is stepping up to a new level, and also shaking the rust off his game after missing most of his sophomore season. I wish he would have stayed another year at Denver, but that was his and the Pen's call to move him up to the pro's. Anyone expecting him to light up the A upon arrival didn't know the player or his situation.

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10-22-2012, 08:57 PM
  #309
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Bennett has just two points in four AHL games after playing only 47 NCAA games? To quote Tom Servo: Whoopty ****.

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10-22-2012, 09:20 PM
  #310
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Bennett has a really hard and accurate backhand pass. It's really impressive to me for some reason.

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10-22-2012, 10:32 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Regardless, I'd rather have the rights to Kuny if he ever came to the NHL than have full rights to Bennett in the AHL. One will be an all-star, the other will be lucky to be TK. For the record, I'm not too bad either when I have someone doing all the work and feeding me pucks in the crease. Bennett needs to show he can contribute and produce on his own account. I hope he does as much as anyone, but I am skeptical until then.

I have no problem with him as a high risk 2nd rounder, but a first was (again) a bit of a reach pick for the Pens.
That kind of revisionist draft analysis doesn't fly at HFBoards, brony. This ain't the Trib forums, this is the big leagues.

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10-22-2012, 11:17 PM
  #312
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That kind of revisionist draft analysis doesn't fly at HFBoards, brony. This ain't the Trib forums, this is the big leagues.
Not quite sure what that means, but if it makes you feel better.

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10-23-2012, 01:09 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Regardless, I'd rather have the rights to Kuny if he ever came to the NHL than have full rights to Bennett in the AHL. One will be an all-star, the other will be lucky to be TK. For the record, I'm not too bad either when I have someone doing all the work and feeding me pucks in the crease. Bennett needs to show he can contribute and produce on his own account. I hope he does as much as anyone, but I am skeptical until then.

I have no problem with him as a high risk 2nd rounder, but a first was (again) a bit of a reach pick for the Pens.
Not sure if serious? You are writing off Bennett after FOUR pro games? Saying Bennett will become a player similar to TK makes me question your hockey knowledge and proclaiming that Kuzy will be an all-star? Ya let's wait a little bit longer for that. Seriously people who jump ship so quickly irk me. Didn't realize everyone was a scout, but then again hindsight is 20/20. Bennett is a complimentary player in the making. His vision, IQ and creativity will make him a good pro, but playing with high end talent will really bring out his qualities.

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10-23-2012, 05:36 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by steelcityassault View Post
Well right now he looks slow and would get killed against NHL defensemen. Kuznetsov would have been a much better pick by far, stop making excuses for Mr. I Developed One Player, Ray Shero
Who is making excuses for anyone? And when talking about developing talent, it's really hard to do that when you're only 5 years removed from your first real draft, aside from the Jordan Staal pick, which he said was the only pick he really had anything to do with in 2006, 2007 was the first draft Ray really had his hands in.

I think people are saying that the kid has played 4 AHL games...it's going to take some time. And if a player isn't likely to come to North America, you're at least having something for that pick v. nothing. You seem to hype yourself up as some WBS expert, and if you want that sort of credibility, you have to realize how player development works since you're watching...a developmental team. Essentially calling the kid a bust after he JUST started his pro career is beyond premature.

I find people hating on Beau Bennett hilarious because before that, there was a huge calling for the Pens to take a boom or bust pick...Ray did, and people have just questioned it. He got a whole 4 games before being called a bust.

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10-23-2012, 07:05 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Who is making excuses for anyone? And when talking about developing talent, it's really hard to do that when you're only 5 years removed from your first real draft, aside from the Jordan Staal pick, which he said was the only pick he really had anything to do with in 2006, 2007 was the first draft Ray really had his hands in.

I think people are saying that the kid has played 4 AHL games...it's going to take some time. And if a player isn't likely to come to North America, you're at least having something for that pick v. nothing. You seem to hype yourself up as some WBS expert, and if you want that sort of credibility, you have to realize how player development works since you're watching...a developmental team. Essentially calling the kid a bust after he JUST started his pro career is beyond premature.

I find people hating on Beau Bennett hilarious because before that, there was a huge calling for the Pens to take a boom or bust pick...Ray did, and people have just questioned it. He got a whole 4 games before being called a bust.
Well at least it took four games. Derrick Pouliot was labeled a bust before he was on the stage putting on his Pens jersey seconds after being drafted.

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10-23-2012, 07:20 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Who is making excuses for anyone? And when talking about developing talent, it's really hard to do that when you're only 5 years removed from your first real draft, aside from the Jordan Staal pick, which he said was the only pick he really had anything to do with in 2006, 2007 was the first draft Ray really had his hands in.

I think people are saying that the kid has played 4 AHL games...it's going to take some time. And if a player isn't likely to come to North America, you're at least having something for that pick v. nothing. You seem to hype yourself up as some WBS expert, and if you want that sort of credibility, you have to realize how player development works since you're watching...a developmental team. Essentially calling the kid a bust after he JUST started his pro career is beyond premature.

I find people hating on Beau Bennett hilarious because before that, there was a huge calling for the Pens to take a boom or bust pick...Ray did, and people have just questioned it. He got a whole 4 games before being called a bust.
Yeah, of all picks I don't think we can question Bennett. At the very least, the Pens staff was making an effort to draft honest-to-God skill for once, even if later-drafted players do turn out better.

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10-23-2012, 07:21 AM
  #317
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Man... I hope this doesn't become another Tangradi situation (with BB).

I was trying to warn ppl all Summer he is at least two years away, if not longer.

His skating needed a lot of work and he needed to work on his balance, core strength, etc. He is still really raw, which is why he is a couple of yrs away.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:23 AM
  #318
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No. Results now.

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10-23-2012, 09:36 AM
  #319
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Although Bennett looks a little weak on the puck, you can really see his playmaking ability is there. Some of those one-touch passes in traffic he was making were beautiful.

As Mr. Jiggyfly said he is probably a couple years away

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10-23-2012, 10:15 AM
  #320
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At least. BB is a project. He's one of those players who needs to KNOW he's one of the best players on the ice to reach his potential. That takes time. He needs to learn how to not be scared playing against stronger grown men. He needs to improve his skating and he needs to adjust to the pro game. 2-3 years until he's usefull in the NHL.

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10-23-2012, 10:52 AM
  #321
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Saw this coming a mile away.

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Old
10-23-2012, 11:34 AM
  #322
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Not sure if serious? You are writing off Bennett after FOUR pro games? Saying Bennett will become a player similar to TK makes me question your hockey knowledge and proclaiming that Kuzy will be an all-star? Ya let's wait a little bit longer for that. Seriously people who jump ship so quickly irk me. Didn't realize everyone was a scout, but then again hindsight is 20/20. Bennett is a complimentary player in the making. His vision, IQ and creativity will make him a good pro, but playing with high end talent will really bring out his qualities.
I wrote him off due to playing such limited number of games during the prime development years of his career vs his competition. BB is already 20yo.

If you don't think Kuznetzov will eventually be an NHL allstar (or similar caliber) after scoring .8 ppg as a 20yo in the KHL, then I don't know what to tell you. He has already played 128 KHL games vs BB's 4 AHL games to date.

Just compare his KHL production to known NHL players. Would anyone think that BB could score at a higher rate than Malkin in any league? Kunetzov is currently.
http://awinninghabit.com/2012/10/22/khl-advanced-stats/

TK (at age 20) was already in his 2nd AHL season and averaged almost 1ppg there. BB will be lucky to even reach TK's level. You must wrap your head around how far behind he is in games played at his age vs other players. He won't catch up until after his prime (if he ever does).

The hindsight argument is a great one that you guys use. It's not like anyone evaluated the BB pick at that time and didn't have a big ?WTF? in their head. (I know I sure did). When we constantly question the draft selections and the results are generally disappointment, then doesn't that mean that the amateur consensus is more accurate than the "professional's"?

I suspect the Radulov incident has caused RS to completely ignore most European talent at the draft.

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10-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I wrote him off due to playing such limited number of games during the prime development years of his career vs his competition. BB is already 20yo.

If you don't think Kuznetzov will eventually be an NHL allstar (or similar caliber) after scoring .8 ppg as a 20yo in the KHL, then I don't know what to tell you. He has already played 128 KHL games vs BB's 4 AHL games to date.

Just compare his KHL production to known NHL players. Would anyone think that BB could score at a higher rate than Malkin in any league? Kunetzov is currently.
http://awinninghabit.com/2012/10/22/khl-advanced-stats/

TK (at age 20) was already in his 2nd AHL season and averaged almost 1ppg there. BB will be lucky to even reach TK's level. You must wrap your head around how far behind he is in games played at his age vs other players. He won't catch up until after his prime (if he ever does).

The hindsight argument is a great one that you guys use. It's not like anyone evaluated the BB pick at that time and didn't have a big ?WTF? in their head. (I know I sure did). When we constantly question the draft selections and the results are generally disappointment, then doesn't that mean that the amateur consensus is more accurate than the "professional's"?

I suspect the Radulov incident has caused RS to completely ignore most European talent at the draft.
This board constantly questions every pick that isn't a skill forward. I'm not saying we couldn't make that a higher priority (I think we should), but it's not the right answer every time.

The amateur consensus here wanted Ferraro over Despres, Puempel over Morrow, and anyone over Harrington. The organization certainly doesn't look "generally disappointing" there. But we conveniently forget those picks when they look good in hindsight.

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10-23-2012, 01:00 PM
  #324
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I didn't mind the Bennett pick, I was actually surprised he was still available when te Pena were on the clock to be honest. That's one pick you won't hear me gripe about.

It'd be way cooler if he was developing faster though but that's not untypical for guys drafted out of the BCHL, they tend to need more time. Look at Kyle Turris for example.

We got into it a bit in the Despres thread but to be clear I don't have an issue with any of the Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot or Maatta picks individually. They are all fine prospects and besides Pouliot, I think they all got picked about where they should have of not later (I though Despres was a mid first rounder and Maatta should have gone just outside the top 10). So for the most part they look like good value, BPA picks and it's nice to see that some of these dudes are developing as expected.

The Kuznetsov fantasy never made sense for the Pens and if you ask me. Even at the time it was known how good of a prospect he was but the same questions that existed then are still there...will he ever play in North America? To me, that's the equivalent of a guy like Bennett. The risks are pretty similar but with BB you at least know you have some control over his development.

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10-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I wrote him off due to playing such limited number of games during the prime development years of his career vs his competition. BB is already 20yo.

If you don't think Kuznetzov will eventually be an NHL allstar (or similar caliber) after scoring .8 ppg as a 20yo in the KHL, then I don't know what to tell you. He has already played 128 KHL games vs BB's 4 AHL games to date.

Just compare his KHL production to known NHL players. Would anyone think that BB could score at a higher rate than Malkin in any league? Kunetzov is currently.
http://awinninghabit.com/2012/10/22/khl-advanced-stats/

TK (at age 20) was already in his 2nd AHL season and averaged almost 1ppg there. BB will be lucky to even reach TK's level. You must wrap your head around how far behind he is in games played at his age vs other players. He won't catch up until after his prime (if he ever does).

The hindsight argument is a great one that you guys use. It's not like anyone evaluated the BB pick at that time and didn't have a big ?WTF? in their head. (I know I sure did). When we constantly question the draft selections and the results are generally disappointment, then doesn't that mean that the amateur consensus is more accurate than the "professional's"?

I suspect the Radulov incident has caused RS to completely ignore most European talent at the draft.
I just don't see the argument. BB still played over 50% of possible college games after suffering 2 freak injuries. Sure it may have stunted his development slightly, but to completely derail it. Probably not. Like you said, he's 20 years old. Not sure why people think that's old especially in terms of hockey. Tangradi is still developing and yet people label him a bust because of this. Patience is something a lot of Pens fans don't have. You can throw all the KHL stats you want, but until Kuzy plays here, let alone comes over to NA, I don't care and comparing Kennedy's development to BB's is like comparing apples to oranges. You have to understand that BB won't be as successful in a league like Kuzy has because he's bounced around. BCHL to NCAA to AHL. Kuzy has been in his element for awhile now, no?

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