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WBS Penguins Hockey PART I

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10-28-2012, 06:52 AM
  #501
Ogrezilla
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let the big dog eat

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10-28-2012, 07:28 AM
  #502
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
let the big dog eat
The more and more I hear this, the more it sounds like a career AHL type of saying.


I'm growing further and further apart from caring if he even makes it because, for all of his good he shows in the WBS, it never translates up to the NHL. I can't invest a ton of effort on what could probably be at best a bottom six player who're a dime a dozen players.

He's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but he's really put this on himself to prove otherwise. I was expecting a lot more from him so, he'll only be the "Big Dog" when he's a permanent Pittsburgh Penguin, but as of right now he's "Baby Huey.




You say Big Dog, I say Big Duck, Maybe the Ducks will take him back.


*QUACK~QUACK*

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10-28-2012, 07:38 AM
  #503
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I dreamt that Tangradi was literally a large dog.

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10-28-2012, 08:00 AM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The more and more I hear this, the more it sounds like a career AHL type of saying.


I'm growing further and further apart from caring if he even makes it because, for all of his good he shows in the WBS, it never translates up to the NHL. I can't invest a ton of effort on what could probably be at best a bottom six player who're a dime a dozen players.

He's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but he's really put this on himself to prove otherwise. I was expecting a lot more from him so, he'll only be the "Big Dog" when he's a permanent Pittsburgh Penguin, but as of right now he's "Baby Huey.




You say Big Dog, I say Big Duck, Maybe the Ducks will take him back.


*QUACK~QUACK*
I still think he showed a lot of good things towards the end of last season. and had been looking good before he got his head taken off on the island the year before. I think he needs to be allowed to just get out there and play without having to worry about getting benched every time he makes a mistake. To me, his biggest NHL problems look like they stem from him thinking entirely too much instead of just playing. Let him be himself instead of trying to mold him into Ryan Malone 2.0.

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10-28-2012, 08:58 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I still think he showed a lot of good things towards the end of last season. and had been looking good before he got his head taken off on the island the year before. I think he needs to be allowed to just get out there and play without having to worry about getting benched every time he makes a mistake. To me, his biggest NHL problems look like they stem from him thinking entirely too much instead of just playing. Let him be himself instead of trying to mold him into Ryan Malone 2.0.
Sure he did, in a 3rd/4th line kind of way, crash and bang. I definitely feel he got his wings clipped, or neutered for you. He just seems so far from what I remember seeing of him when he was in Juniors. The Gillies hit on him set him back even further than he was already stunted. His wrist injury started it all off, and he really hasn't fully recovered to the form he once had.

I was fully expecting a Milan Lucic style of play from what we saw of him, not fully, but a similar style. He just doesn't have enough bite for my liking anymore. He also doesn't seem to have the high end skill-set to think like a power forward where after he is done working the corner that he knows where to be for scoring chances, get open. He's very slow in that regard. It's one thing to be placed in front of the net for screening on the PP, but how about hustling there on a given 5 on 5 play. He seems to like the boards way too much.

Get the puck to a teammate and get to the net ASAP. I know, I know, big guys take a bit longer, but Eric is a grizzled vet AHL wise, he shouldn't be this far off at this point, even with his set backs. Blame being forced into a role not suited for him, or his injuries, he's still way behind the curve, even a curve for a big guy.

Like I said before, he can prove me wrong, I just won't be expecting it.

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10-28-2012, 09:22 AM
  #506
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I didn't watch him in juniors, but I have never heard anyone ever mention Lucic when talking about what Tangradi can be. He has never even looked like a Malone style. He's a passer first and foremost. The things I'm talking about were on his few shifts with Sid or Geno. The kid can run a give and go with Sid better than either Dupuis or Kunitz ever has. He isn't a fourth line mucker. He's got size, but the muck and grind game is not what he plays. I look at a guy like Ryane Clowe when I think of what Tangradi could potentially turn into. He will throw some hits, but the way he really utilizes his size is controlling the puck until he can get it to a teammate. He'll go to the net, but its probably not going to be his primary objective in 5 on 5 play.

But the organization seems to want him to follow the Ryan Malone prototype for big guys. Hit people. Play a nasty game. Stand in front of the net. Score garbage goals. He can do those things, but they are not his best attributes. I really wonder what this organization would have done if they had James Neal from the beginning. Do they see his shot and let him develop into the sniper he has become? Or do they see a 6'2" 200 lb kid and try to turn him into the next Chris Kunitz?

And as far as being behind the curve, Tangradi will be as old this season as Malone was in his first NHL season. Clowe was 23. If he can stick this year (if there is a this year) he is right on track. The way I see it; at this point there is no reason not to give him a real shot this season.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 10-28-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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Old
10-28-2012, 09:31 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I agree with this. No way Morrow should be "getting used to the pressbox." If he has deficiencies, he needs to work on them in the AHL because unlike the other prospects, he has a legitimate chance to be a top 3-4 defender (Dumoulin too). The organization shouldn't be worried about icing a slightly better development team with veterans who have little NHL potential, if any at all, getting the ice time. Terrible way to manage talent.
As of right now the WBS Pens is the organizations only income producer. If they don't win fans won't come to watch. So those of you that say they don't care about the wins, it's more important to play the prospects, have no clue what they are talking about. These prospects have to earn their ice time with their play. If they show they can do the right things on the ice to help the team win night in and night out then they will play. From what i've seen so far, Morrows got a ways to go. He's been great on the PP but so has Grant and he's much better defensively. The rest of Morrows game needs a lot of work. Believe it or not they do have to get that in practice first.
I think the first 5 games Hynes was instructed by management on who to play. Last night he got free reign to put his best lineup on the ice to compete with the best team in the AHL and the results bare that out.


Last edited by bigd: 10-28-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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10-28-2012, 09:52 AM
  #508
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Tangradi is a playmaking big man. He can dish a puck. I have always likened him to a big Chris Kunitz, without some of the edge. I'm not sure why people have this developmental curve for Tangradi. Big men always develop later, and that's without nearly catastrophic hand injuries.

I think he'll be just fine. My thoughts on Tangradi's development are, leave him alone and allow him to be what he wants to be v. trying to peg him as something because he's 6'4 230.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The more and more I hear this, the more it sounds like a career AHL type of saying.


I'm growing further and further apart from caring if he even makes it because, for all of his good he shows in the WBS, it never translates up to the NHL. I can't invest a ton of effort on what could probably be at best a bottom six player who're a dime a dozen players.

He's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but he's really put this on himself to prove otherwise. I was expecting a lot more from him so, he'll only be the "Big Dog" when he's a permanent Pittsburgh Penguin, but as of right now he's "Baby Huey.




You say Big Dog, I say Big Duck, Maybe the Ducks will take him back.


*QUACK~QUACK*

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10-28-2012, 10:08 AM
  #509
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I think Malone was and still is the best comparison for Tangradi.

I think it's important to understand that the Penguins are developing Tangradi's game into that of a powerforward because he doesn't have enough skill to make it on skill alone. Few do.

Anyone concerned by Tangradi's current status in the organization or as a hockey player had unrealistic expectations to begin with. He's pretty much exactly where he should be.

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10-28-2012, 10:16 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I think Malone was and still is the best comparison for Tangradi.

I think it's important to understand that the Penguins are developing Tangradi's game into that of a powerforward because he doesn't have enough skill to make it on skill alone. Few do.

Anyone concerned by Tangradi's current status in the organization or as a hockey player had unrealistic expectations to begin with. He's pretty much exactly where he should be.
And even for Malone, he only started pro hockey at 22, and did what he did on a horrendous Pens team. When the team got really good, people forget how bad he was until his last season here, which he was 28 years old.

No one wanted Ryan Malone on this team before Geno got here and made Malone what he was.

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10-28-2012, 10:36 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
As of right now the WBS Pens is the organizations only income producer. If they don't win fans won't come to watch. So those of you that say they don't care about the wins, it's more important to play the prospects, have no clue what they are talking about. These prospects have to earn their ice time with their play. If they show they can do the right things on the ice to help the team win night in and night out then they will play. From what i've seen so far, Morrows got a ways to go. He's been great on the PP but so has Grant and he's much better defensively. The rest of Morrows game needs a lot of work. Believe it or not they do have to get that in practice first.
I think the first 5 games Hynes was instructed by management on who to play. Last night he got free reign to put his best lineup on the ice to compete with the best team in the AHL and the results bare that out.
The only problem here though is that these rookies need actual playing time to get any better. Of course the veterans are going to be better players at this point simply because of the fact that they are more experienced.

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10-28-2012, 11:16 AM
  #512
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Tangradi being able to win board battles, use his size to shield the puck from defenders and his above average vision and playmaking ability to find the open man is exactly what we could use with Sid/Geno. He doesn't need to have ridiculous skill to accomplish that. If there is an NHL season, give the guy a shot.


Last edited by mpp9: 10-28-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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10-28-2012, 11:22 AM
  #513
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Sounds like Tangradi is making good progress. I can't wait to see what he does in the NHL for three minutes a game with Craig Adams and the whoever the Penguins' enforcer du jour will be.

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10-28-2012, 11:27 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
As of right now the WBS Pens is the organizations only income producer. If they don't win fans won't come to watch. So those of you that say they don't care about the wins, it's more important to play the prospects, have no clue what they are talking about. These prospects have to earn their ice time with their play. If they show they can do the right things on the ice to help the team win night in and night out then they will play. From what i've seen so far, Morrows got a ways to go. He's been great on the PP but so has Grant and he's much better defensively. The rest of Morrows game needs a lot of work. Believe it or not they do have to get that in practice first.
I think the first 5 games Hynes was instructed by management on who to play. Last night he got free reign to put his best lineup on the ice to compete with the best team in the AHL and the results bare that out.
So then how is Morrow supposed to get better? By watching how good Alex Grant is and practicing?

The thing Morrow lacks most is decision making. To get better in that category he needs to face game speed conditions with pressure and points on the line.

As someone who has been to WBS games and follows their stat lines, I still understand that first and foremost that team is there to develop talent. Of course I'm a Pitt Pens fan over WBS by at least a mile but the point still remains. Organizationally, the team needs to focus on developing our prospects that can contribute at the highest level. I know that's offensive to the hardcore WBS fan but its a necessary evil.

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Old
10-28-2012, 11:39 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Sounds like Tangradi is making good progress. I can't wait to see what he does in the NHL for three minutes a game with Craig Adams and the whoever the Penguins' enforcer du jour will be.
See, now I can't wait till he does get that chance and then people conclude he sucks and will never be a good NHL player.

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10-28-2012, 11:41 AM
  #516
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Burkle owns the WBS Pens, they're not under a different ownership from the parent club which is a scenario more likely to lead to emphasis on veterans. Something tells me Burkle, being a billionaire businessman, understands how to effectively manage money and spent resources. The Pens organization hasn't spent big-time resources (1st-round picks and trade acquisitions) to let guys like Morrow, Dumoulin, whoever "earn" AHL playing time. I still don't get what the deal with this board and use of the word earn all the time. You don't invest resources like that to let them be healthy scratched in order to have a slight, if any, better chance to win a single game. It's also not like WBS is infusing the club with millions of dollars of profits. The only thing Burkle probably wants from the team profit-wise is not to lose a ton of money.

Also, I guarantee part of the reason Morrow was scratched yesterday because of his boarding penalty the week before against the same club that lead to a high-profile prospect missing at least a month of games due to injury.

As long as the lockout is going on, they're going to have to rotate guys in-and-out of the lineup, hence Dumoulin not playing yesterday. I fully expect him back in the lineup today. If for some reason he's not, then someone in upper-management needs to let Hynes understand what the point of the AHL team is.




Also Zatkoff played really well yesterday and cemented getting the bulk of the starts to me.


Last edited by Sivek: 10-28-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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10-28-2012, 11:51 AM
  #517
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See, now I can't wait till he does get that chance and then people conclude he sucks and will never be a good NHL player.
You need to earn your chances, Burgundy. You know... by making a positive impression during that three-five minute window playing with a couple of jobbers. Er... I mean, uh... veteran leaders. And I don't want to hear how he hasn't been given a real shot. What... so those odd 30 second shifts every few games with Malkin or Crosby don't count?

If you can't make an impact under those more-than-generous circumstances... then maybe you just aren't a very good player. It's not like the Penguins aren't bursting at the seams with far better options at his position, anyway. Maybe some team will give up a good puck moving defenseman for him if the Pens throw in a second rounder. You can never have enough of those.

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10-28-2012, 12:51 PM
  #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The more and more I hear this, the more it sounds like a career AHL type of saying.


I'm growing further and further apart from caring if he even makes it because, for all of his good he shows in the WBS, it never translates up to the NHL. I can't invest a ton of effort on what could probably be at best a bottom six player who're a dime a dozen players.

He's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but he's really put this on himself to prove otherwise. I was expecting a lot more from him so, he'll only be the "Big Dog" when he's a permanent Pittsburgh Penguin, but as of right now he's "Baby Huey.




You say Big Dog, I say Big Duck, Maybe the Ducks will take him back.


*QUACK~QUACK*
This seems like a really goofy time to be negative about Tangradi's development.

The kid's had two major injury setbacks to contend with in his young career, and he's only 23 (as you know, many power forwards don't come into their own until around this time...even without a major injury). Now he's better than ever, looking NHL-ready by all accounts, and no longer waiver-eligible so he'll get ample opportunity to prove himself when the lockout ends.

Why the pessimism?

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10-28-2012, 01:04 PM
  #519
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I just hope we get a chance to find out what Tangradi can do. We should let this thread go back to WBS talk though.

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10-28-2012, 01:36 PM
  #520
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Any word on the lineup tonight?

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10-28-2012, 01:41 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
The only problem here though is that these rookies need actual playing time to get any better. Of course the veterans are going to be better players at this point simply because of the fact that they are more experienced.
There is absolutely no need to rush Mr. Morrow. He'll probably spend at least two years in the AHL so he will have plenty of time to get better.

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10-28-2012, 01:49 PM
  #522
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So then how is Morrow supposed to get better? By watching how good Alex Grant is and practicing?

The thing Morrow lacks most is decision making. To get better in that category he needs to face game speed conditions with pressure and points on the line.

As someone who has been to WBS games and follows their stat lines, I still understand that first and foremost that team is there to develop talent. Of course I'm a Pitt Pens fan over WBS by at least a mile but the point still remains. Organizationally, the team needs to focus on developing our prospects that can contribute at the highest level. I know that's offensive to the hardcore WBS fan but its a necessary evil.
I do believe Grant is still a prospect. I don't think they've given up on him. He had a very good season last year after missing a whole year. Why should he sit over Morrow who is a few years away from NHL duty. Don't get me wrong, I like Morrow but people on here think he's ready to take over for Letang and that's a long way off if ever. He has plenty of time to get his decision making down.

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10-28-2012, 01:54 PM
  #523
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It's really a non-issue. The AHL season is 78 games long and this is a 3 games in 3 days weekend so why not sit out some of the younger guys for the middle game? That won't stunt Morrow's development at all. The kid hasn't even turned 20 yet.


Last edited by Burgs: 10-28-2012 at 02:00 PM.
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10-28-2012, 01:58 PM
  #524
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I do believe Grant is still a prospect. I don't think they've given up on him. He had a very good season last year after missing a whole year. Why should he sit over Morrow who is a few years away from NHL duty. Don't get me wrong, I like Morrow but people on here think he's ready to take over for Letang and that's a long way off if ever. He has plenty of time to get his decision making down.
Grant is definitely still a prospect. He's getting better every game. His game is a rare combo of offensive prowess and toughness.

Morrow could be better than Letang. Once he develops. Has a ways to go defensively, only thing that's better right now is his slap shot

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10-28-2012, 03:27 PM
  #525
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No stream for the game tonight?

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