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what will an emergence of Rielly and Gardiner mean for Dion?

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Old
10-03-2012, 09:52 PM
  #76
smitty10
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Percy is better than most here give him credit for. He will be our future #3-4-5 type of guy.

Phaneuf - Rielly
Gardiner - Gunnarsson
Percy - Blacker

Finn/Holzer on the brink. Injuries and trades in the next 2-3 years will likely mean the bottom 5 is in constant motion. I like Finn to play a larger role because of his defensive abilities but I also prefer Percy and Blacker to him.
Why isn't Holzer in there? This guy is so underrated around here. Did you watch the Marlies? Holzer played on the same team as Blacker and likely saw 10+ minutes per game more than Blacker. The guy is one of the steadiest defensemen I've ever seen at the AHL level and could be a good #4 guy one day for the Leafs. Granted, Holzer is older and far more experienced (played in the DEL for 3 seasons and has represented Germany in 2 WC's and an Olympics on top of 2 AHL seasons), but what has Blacker or Percy done to show that they are or will be better than him?

And if I'm taking this wrong and it's supposed to be 2-4 years in the future, where is Granberg? He's farther along right now than Blacker and arguably Percy and has shown it in the SEL and in his role on the WJC gold medal winning Swedish team. I know these guys aren't the 'sexy picks', but both Granberg and Holzer play as close to mistake free hockey as one can get. Blacker on the other hand doesn't look like his defensive play has translated to pro hockey and his defensive game is full of holes. He has a lot of work to do if he's going to make the show.

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10-03-2012, 10:35 PM
  #77
charliolemieux
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Why isn't Holzer in there? This guy is so underrated around here. Did you watch the Marlies? Holzer played on the same team as Blacker and likely saw 10+ minutes per game more than Blacker. The guy is one of the steadiest defensemen I've ever seen at the AHL level and could be a good #4 guy one day for the Leafs. Granted, Holzer is older and far more experienced (played in the DEL for 3 seasons and has represented Germany in 2 WC's and an Olympics on top of 2 AHL seasons), but what has Blacker or Percy done to show that they are or will be better than him?

And if I'm taking this wrong and it's supposed to be 2-4 years in the future, where is Granberg? He's farther along right now than Blacker and arguably Percy and has shown it in the SEL and in his role on the WJC gold medal winning Swedish team. I know these guys aren't the 'sexy picks', but both Granberg and Holzer play as close to mistake free hockey as one can get. Blacker on the other hand doesn't look like his defensive play has translated to pro hockey and his defensive game is full of holes. He has a lot of work to do if he's going to make the show.
Ya Holzer was/is a rock.

But isn't it nice to drink our Rainbow Tea and have every prospect reach their potentail.

But still, damn it is nice to be looking 2yrs down the road and having people forget Holzer as a part of our top 6.

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10-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #78
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Nothing, absolutely nothing. Dion is the best d-man on this team and by far the most well-rounded(even though people will bash him for his occasional defensive lapses). He plays tough, hits hard, plays a ton of minutes and in all situations, and displays good offensive output.

If anything, his play will emerge with a defense partner like Rielly, and could make a helluva pairing.

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10-04-2012, 01:54 AM
  #79
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Hilarious the disrespect Dion gets, this guy is a real #1 Dman, might be the best open ice hitter in the NHL, I for one hope that he is a leaf for some time yet. And would be shocked if he falls from top 2 in TOI in the next 3 seasons.

OT: watched the WJC rewind today, he was EASILY Canada's best dman, Weber very solid himself, but in a 99.99% defensive role. Also a little reminder to see how much players change from their prospect years through to veteran NHLer.

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10-04-2012, 08:18 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by facey View Post
Hilarious the disrespect Dion gets, this guy is a real #1 Dman, might be the best open ice hitter in the NHL, I for one hope that he is a leaf for some time yet. And would be shocked if he falls from top 2 in TOI in the next 3 seasons.

OT: watched the WJC rewind today, he was EASILY Canada's best dman, Weber very solid himself, but in a 99.99% defensive role. Also a little reminder to see how much players change from their prospect years through to veteran NHLer.
Agreed. No leaf center makes the top 30 ranking so we are not considered to have a number #1 C. Absolutely understandable. When it comes to Dion HFboards ranks him #25 in the overall defense category which would mean hes a #1 on 5 teams, but hey since hes a leaf hes not a #1 defense man.

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10-04-2012, 08:32 AM
  #81
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It will mean he is playing on an improved team?

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10-04-2012, 09:30 AM
  #82
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Phaenuf, Rielly, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Blacker, Finn, Holzer, Percy all D that should be (or already are) NHLers, we have massive trade bait for the future

Phaneuf - Rielly
Gardiner - Gunnarsson
Finn - Percy
Blacker - Holzer

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10-06-2012, 06:48 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
The emergence means...Dion can go back to being himself?

You put Dion Phaneuf on a team that already has good goaltending and you're talking of a #1D that plays 30 mins and puts up 40-50 points.

You put Dion Phaneuf on the Maple Leafs with bad goaltending and you're talking about an overpaid, overrated, defenseman that still manages to put 40-50 points while playing 30 mins against tough competition.

Phaneuf is Phaneuf...we really need him, despite the hate he gets from the media, fans of other teams, frustrated Leaf fans etc (I mean which Leaf doesn't?).
I am ok with Dion I suppose...He honestly needs to think before he shoots and work on shot accuracy. How many times do you have to hear...

High and wide
Off then shins

If he could would only place shots and stop telegraphing maybe use the line laterally, he would be so much better. He needs to move his feet more gets very lazy in front of his own net many nights.

Not a 6million dollar man, thats for sure, not a shabby D overall, not at all. Dont think he has the spark of a captain, A moreso than C.

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10-06-2012, 08:27 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
I am ok with Dion I suppose...He honestly needs to think before he shoots and work on shot accuracy. How many times do you have to hear...

High and wide
Off then shins

If he could would only place shots and stop telegraphing maybe use the line laterally, he would be so much better. He needs to move his feet more gets very lazy in front of his own net many nights.

Not a 6million dollar man, thats for sure, not a shabby D overall, not at all. Dont think he has the spark of a captain, A moreso than C.
This. If Dion Phaneuf had Cody Franson's ability to get his shot on net, especially through traffic, He'd be a consistent 20 goal, 60 point defenseman easily, and I'm talking minimum here.

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10-06-2012, 08:41 AM
  #85
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What does it mean to Dion?

Not as much as his $6.5 million salary,making him untradeable and due for a paycut.The next GM will not resign him and quite frankly he isn't a number one defenseman.After his contract expires he will walk for about $5 million, to another team.It isn't Dion's fault but Burke's plan of building a team around the wrong players,Kessel a winger,Phaneuff a 2/3 dman on a good team and an unproven goalie must soon be torn down.The question is how long will it take Rogers/Bell to realize Burke's plan is really Bettman's plan.

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10-06-2012, 08:43 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
It will mean he is playing on an improved team?
That was my first thought too
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Not as much as his $6.5 million salary,making him untradeable and due for a paycut.The next GM will not resign him and quite frankly he isn't a number one defenseman.After his contract expires he will walk for about $5 million, to another team.It isn't Dion's fault but Burke's plan of building a team around the wrong players,Kessel a winger,Phaneuff a 2/3 dman on a good team and an unproven goalie must soon be torn down.The question is how long will it take Rogers/Bell to realize Burke's plan is really Bettman's plan.
lol

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10-06-2012, 09:01 AM
  #87
Marco Esquandolas
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What a stupid thread

"But guys, what if too many of our players turn out to be good?!"

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10-06-2012, 01:02 PM
  #88
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We might end up with a top four of:

Rielly-Dion
XXXX-Gard

Not something we can complain about

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10-06-2012, 01:12 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
We might end up with a top four of:

Rielly-Dion
XXXX-Gard

Not something we can complain about
Gardiner plays the left side, not the right. But a top-4 of:

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn

Is very, very good (assuming they all reach their potential).

I've always thought Percy would make a perfect D partner for Phaneuf, seems to complment his style well, but Rielly could be that elite puckmover we need to play well over 20mins a game like Letang or Keith.

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10-06-2012, 01:42 PM
  #90
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It just means we have a legit top 3?

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10-06-2012, 01:47 PM
  #91
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Honestly our D-core is in the best shape out of any poistion on the team.

top 4 of

Phaneuf-Rielly
Gardiner-XXXX(Gunnar for now)


with guys like Gunnar, Ranger(if he gets back to old form), Percy, Finn all capable of being that #4 d-man if they reach the potential.

That top 4 is a match against most if not all defenses in the league if guys like Rielly/Gardiner reach their potential like they should.

I'm not worried about the D anymore, I'm worried about our #1 C and #1 G.

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10-06-2012, 02:03 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Honestly our D-core is in the best shape out of any poistion on the team.

top 4 of

Phaneuf-Rielly
Gardiner-XXXX(Gunnar for now)


with guys like Gunnar, Ranger(if he gets back to old form), Percy, Finn all capable of being that #4 d-man if they reach the potential.

That top 4 is a match against most if not all defenses in the league if guys like Rielly/Gardiner reach their potential like they should.

I'm not worried about the D anymore, I'm worried about our #1 C and #1 G.
If Ranger gets back to old form, then he's Phaneuf's D partner, and our D will be ri-god damn-diculous.

Ranger-Phaneuf
Rielly-Finn/Percy/etc
Gardiner-Holzer/Blacker/one of two above

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10-06-2012, 02:04 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by facey View Post
Hilarious the disrespect Dion gets, this guy is a real #1 Dman, might be the best open ice hitter in the NHL, I for one hope that he is a leaf for some time yet. And would be shocked if he falls from top 2 in TOI in the next 3 seasons.

OT: watched the WJC rewind today, he was EASILY Canada's best dman, Weber very solid himself, but in a 99.99% defensive role. Also a little reminder to see how much players change from their prospect years through to veteran NHLer.
Easy on the man crush mate. There are at least 15min other dmen better than dion in the show. Also some guy named kronwall from Detroit is without question a better hitter than your boy. I'm as big a leafs fan as the next guy but the pure stupidity that is posted here is at times unbearable.

OT Didnt re watch the wjc but can say without hesitation I would take Weber over dion.

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10-06-2012, 02:12 PM
  #94
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It will mean the Leafs might have 3 good defensemen.Since it takes 6 good ones to win the cup -- they only need a few more.

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10-06-2012, 02:12 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by lampshade View Post
Easy on the man crush mate. There are at least 15min other dmen better than dion in the show. Also some guy named kronwall from Detroit is without question a better hitter than your boy. I'm as big a leafs fan as the next guy but the pure stupidity that is posted here is at times unbearable.

OT Didnt re watch the wjc but can say without hesitation I would take Weber over dion.
15 is a little high. There aren't many 'hybrid' style d-men like Phaneuf who hit and score points playing today.

Weber, Sutter off the top of my head are a bit better, Chara, Keith/Seabrook? Pietrangelo. I mean he was 12th in points but he is surely better defensively than some of those guys.

I would put Phaneuf in the top 15-20 d-men in the league, which is a compliment to him.

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10-06-2012, 02:14 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
It will mean the Leafs might have 3 good defensemen.Since it takes 6 good ones to win the cup -- they only need a few more.
If Rielly and Gardiner reach their potential that's a top 3 that is much more than good.

Not many teams have more than 2 top end D-men.

We have 3 potential ones. The rest I would consider good.

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10-07-2012, 08:21 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
If Rielly and Gardiner reach their potential that's a top 3 that is much more than good.

Not many teams have more than 2 top end D-men.

We have 3 potential ones. The rest I would consider good.
Possibly 4 or 5 total... We potentially have a stacked D for years.

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10-07-2012, 09:16 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
Possibly 4 or 5 total... We potentially have a stacked D for years.
The problem is, they have top tier offensive and puck moving potential. We are still missing top tier shutdown, reliable defenders - ie. Sutter, Chara, Weber - guys you would send out against the Crosby's, Malkin's, Giroux, Stamkos. There isn't anyone on the Leafs defense list that I could comfortably send out to shut them down.

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10-07-2012, 09:31 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
The problem is, they have top tier offensive and puck moving potential. We are still missing top tier shutdown, reliable defenders - ie. Sutter, Chara, Weber - guys you would send out against the Crosby's, Malkin's, Giroux, Stamkos. There isn't anyone on the Leafs defense list that I could comfortably send out to shut them down.
To be fair, none of those defensemen were billed in that role when they were drafted.

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10-07-2012, 09:39 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
if Mo Riles and Gardz become really good do you trade Dion? do you play him on the 2nd line? where do you see Dion when R and G come up and play to their potential? this could happen sooner than later.
Gardiner and or Rielly can't hold Phaneuf's jock strap, not now or in the near future.

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