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what will an emergence of Rielly and Gardiner mean for Dion?

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Old
10-07-2012, 10:39 PM
  #101
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I would honestly trade him if someone can give us a PF up front or a top line C.

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10-07-2012, 10:40 PM
  #102
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The problem is, they have top tier offensive and puck moving potential. We are still missing top tier shutdown, reliable defenders - ie. Sutter, Chara, Weber - guys you would send out against the Crosby's, Malkin's, Giroux, Stamkos. There isn't anyone on the Leafs defense list that I could comfortably send out to shut them down.
Remembering we are still looking at least 2-3 years down the line, there's nothing to stop us from finding that guy if it's still a glaring hole. Weber and Chara were both drafted in the 50 range, so there could still be that guy in our group, or able to be acquired. I seem to recall a couple Europeans who have some shutdown capabilites. Ask ULF, he was going to start a thread about them.

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10-07-2012, 11:23 PM
  #103
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Dion is so underrated around here. We have no one even close to his ability and level, and no one who projects to be


Last edited by blasted_Sabre: 10-08-2012 at 07:42 AM.
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10-08-2012, 12:07 AM
  #104
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if Mo Riles and Gardz become really good do you trade Dion? do you play him on the 2nd line? where do you see Dion when R and G come up and play to their potential? this could happen sooner than later.
Gardiner has no physical aspect to his game. While you could conceivabley play him in your top pairing with Rielly, that would require MR to do the physical stuff for both of the, Rielly is more robust than Gardiner but I don't think he has surplus physicality for two. Not like it isn't doable if both reach their potential, however maybe not the optimum use of their talents. I could see the three of them splitting pp time and no matter how much Gardiner develops I don't see him in either a PK or shutdown role so he doesn't figure to ever lead the club in TOI. Enough minutes for three to get heavy icetime without worrying about who is the top pair though.

He and Rielly would really have to explode to make Phaneuf's puck handling skills unnecessary but if you had two 60 point guys that might do it. They could then look at adding more conservative types to pair with G and R (and likely cheaper) but that's a pretty big if. Anything is possible and obviously it would be fantastic if they actually had to worry about this kind of problem. Unless Rielly is the next Ray Bourque it seems unlikely anyone will be pushing Phaneuf for a few years, unless DPs game goes south again.

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10-08-2012, 10:02 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Dion is so underrated around here. We have no one even close to his ability and level, and no one who projects to be
He is a top tier D. He has a few very bad habits.

A. Shot accuracy
B. Telegraphed shots
C. Tends to stop moving legs in defensive zone
D. Gets caught pinching to often. (perhaps a Wilson directive)

If he fixed abc, he could probably bank 60 pt seasons easily and be worth his salary. Should really only make 4m and change maybe 5m.

Rielly is there with him for sure.


Last edited by thewave: 10-08-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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10-08-2012, 10:17 AM
  #106
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I like Jake Gardiner, but putting him in Dion's class is just silly, Rielly can be a top 1 D man on this team one day, but it will take time. It's better to have Dion and Rielly on the same team, not getting rid of one for the other.

Dion's nasty habits are so overblown here thanks to in part to the Bill Watter's smear campaign the past 3 years, it is laughable. Dion is by far and away the Leaf's best D man right now, there is no one even in the same zip code on the team, when Rielly, Finn, and Percy make the team, Dion will still be a big part of this defence corps. It wouldn't surprise me when Dion gets more support, he will actually be an even better player than has been the past 3 years he has been here.

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10-08-2012, 10:20 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Gardiner and or Rielly can't hold Phaneuf's jock strap, not now or in the near future.
Well, if that turns out to be true then we are royally screwed.

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10-08-2012, 10:25 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Dion is so underrated around here. We have no one even close to his ability and level, and no one who projects to be
If Gards or Reilly don't come,( as you put it) "even close to his ability and level" then this organization is in a heap of trouble.

Our 2 top prospects will not develop to the point where they won't even be close to a borderline all star? Let alone ,elite?

YIKES.

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10-08-2012, 10:28 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
If Gards or Reilly don't come,( as you put it) "even close to his ability and level" then this organization is in a heap of trouble.

Our 2 top prospects will not develop to the point where they won't even be close to a borderline all star? Let alone ,elite?

YIKES.
Which one of them is going to consistently lay big checks and play a physical game?

The answer is neither. They may be elite PMDs someday, but they cant and wont duplicate everything that Dion does.

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10-08-2012, 10:29 AM
  #110
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Well, if that turns out to be true then we are royally screwed.
My hope is for one day, Dion will be Pronger, to Reilly's Neidermayer for Anaheim when they won the cup.

I don't think it's a stretch to think this is possible. Having both, is a lot better than just having one.

All the teams that have won the cup of late had that blueprint of 2 Stud D's and a franchise goalie. Dion and Rielly can be the 2 studs, hopefully Reimer can get back to his previous form, pre Gionta's dirty intentional knee to the head.

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10-08-2012, 10:30 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
If Gards or Reilly don't come,( as you put it) "even close to his ability and level" then this organization is in a heap of trouble.

Our 2 top prospects will not develop to the point where they won't even be close to a borderline all star? Let alone ,elite?

YIKES.
Lets not take anything away from Phaneuf here. When he's on his game he's one of the most intimidating defensemen in the NHL. He's probably the best open ice hitter since the last lockout and has proven the potential to put up big point totals. He's not going to be everything to everyone, but what he does well he does really well.

I don't think he intended to slight Gardiner or Rielly.

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10-08-2012, 10:32 AM
  #112
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Add-Jake Gardiner has a place on this defence, he reminds me of a young Kaberle. Not a top pairing guy, maybe at #5 on a very deep defence as Kaberle was on Boston. His PM skills are valuable.

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10-08-2012, 10:36 AM
  #113
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Future look of our D,

Top 4 interchangable.

Percy, Finn, Rielly, Dion

Bottom pairing, Gardiner, Granberg, Fraser, Blacker, Holzer.

Top pairing.

Rielly-Percy
Shut down pair, Dion-Finn

Gardiner-Blacker/Fraser/Holzer/Granberg or trade possibility

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10-08-2012, 10:54 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Lets not take anything away from Phaneuf here. When he's on his game he's one of the most intimidating defensemen in the NHL. He's probably the best open ice hitter since the last lockout and has proven the potential to put up big point totals. He's not going to be everything to everyone, but what he does well he does really well.

I don't think he intended to slight Gardiner or Rielly.
What I find funny is how when comparing d men and listing those "superior" to Dion the list always includes Weber,Suter(usually misspelled),Chara,Pronger, and then a long list of players either with weaker point totals(this would be Suter too who rode passenger with Weber) or a lack of physicality.

There is no player in the NHL more similar to Weber in style of play, point production, and age grouping.

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10-08-2012, 11:29 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Which one of them is going to consistently lay big checks and play a physical game?

The answer is neither. They may be elite PMDs someday, but they cant and wont duplicate everything that Dion does.
The poster listed ability AND level.

The word level says to me just that, what ever style they play, will they be able to make a marked difference in games, will they reach the skill level of all star ish.

And then, seeing how it was stated that, they won't even come remotely close? Really?

What i read was, neither Gards nor Reilly will even come remotely close to all star level talents.

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10-08-2012, 11:35 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Lets not take anything away from Phaneuf here. When he's on his game he's one of the most intimidating defensemen in the NHL. He's probably the best open ice hitter since the last lockout and has proven the potential to put up big point totals. He's not going to be everything to everyone, but what he does well he does really well.

I don't think he intended to slight Gardiner or Rielly.
I called Dion a all star ish type talent. I don't see that as a slight.

When they state, that neither Gards nor Reilly will come even remotely close to his level (aka. all star ish) , then i say we have a big problem here.

When our two top prospects won't even come remotely close/ can't hold his jock compared to all star ish talent? We are in a heap of trouble.

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10-08-2012, 11:59 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I called Dion a all star ish type talent. I don't see that as a slight.

When they state, that neither Gards nor Reilly will come even remotely close to his level (aka. all star ish) , then i say we have a big problem here.

When our two top prospects won't even come remotely close/ can't hold his jock compared to all star ish talent? We are in a heap of trouble.
It's funny when people get outraged because they didn't completely read the post that they are replying to.

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10-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #118
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10-08-2012, 12:41 PM
  #119
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Rielly and Gardiner play a PMD rushing style of game Dion is more of a lay people out blast of a shot D man. They are different types of players and without Dion our D looks really small. Seriously I am seeing people posting


Gardiner - Rielly
Blacker - Ranger
Percy - Gunnarsson

Who back there is going to hit people?


If Dion wants to stay I can see him sticking around he will have a spot in our top 4 for sure.


Also as for Top in the past I am hoping Granberg finds his way somewhere in our D core. He is a meaner Gunnarsson and would look well with someone like Blacker, Percy, Gardiner.

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10-08-2012, 12:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Rielly and Gardiner play a PMD rushing style of game Dion is more of a lay people out blast of a shot D man. They are different types of players and without Dion our D looks really small. Seriously I am seeing people posting


Gardiner - Rielly
Blacker - Ranger
Percy - Gunnarsson

Who back there is going to hit people?


If Dion wants to stay I can see him sticking around he will have a spot in our top 4 for sure.


Also as for Top in the past I am hoping Granberg finds his way somewhere in our D core. He is a meaner Gunnarsson and would look well with someone like Blacker, Percy, Gardiner.
Phaneuf, Holzer, Granberg, Finn, Nilsson, MacWilliam, Knodel, Loov, Robertson...

Just because our top prospects are almost exclusively PMD or offensive guys, this doesn't mean we'll just run a team full of them. Some will be traded, some will bust, some will leave via Free Agency. The lineup you listed will never be the Maple Leafs defensive group. And Phaneuf is only 27; why isn't he included on this roster, but Blacker (an offensive defenseman who had only 16 points in 58 games last season) and Ranger (a defenseman who hasn't played in almost 3 years) will make the team? Clearly our captain is extremely unappreciated here if we have posters assuming that he'll be gone in the next couple years for guys like Blacker, Percy, Ranger, etc. The guy's an All-Star, scored 44 points last year, is captain of the team, hits like a train and has a cannon slapshot, but somehow isn't on that team? I don't get it.

Phaneuf is a top pairing guy in this league. Of course he's a 'top 4' guy in that line up. He'd be playing on the first pairing with Rielly.


Last edited by smitty10: 10-08-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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10-08-2012, 01:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
if Mo Riles and Gardz become really good do you trade Dion? do you play him on the 2nd line? where do you see Dion when R and G come up and play to their potential? this could happen sooner than later.
Our all-star Dman, Phaneuf who carried the team on his back through most of the first half of the season last year will be just fine.

The question should be if Gardiner, Rielly join Phaneuf as top pairing calibar workhorse dmen capable of playing 22+ minutes a night what happens with Gunnarson and Liles?

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10-08-2012, 01:43 PM
  #122
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Our all-star Dman, Phaneuf who carried the team on his back through most of the first half of the season last year will be just fine.

The question should be if Gardiner, Rielly join Phaneuf as top pairing calibar workhorse dmen capable of playing 22+ minutes a night what happens with Gunnarson and Liles?
Gardiner and Rielly play almost an identical game. We need a guy like Dion to provide a physical presence while playing with Rielly and Gardiner will play on the second pairing with a guy like Holzer or Granberg, who can provide a solid defensive game. Phaneuf definitely has a place on this team for the next 5+ years and so do Gardiner and Rielly. Gardiner will be more suited as a number 3 guy, while Rielly and Phaneuf will be our top pairing, 1-2 punch.

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10-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #123
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The question should be if Gardiner, Rielly join Phaneuf as top pairing calibar workhorse dmen capable of playing 22+ minutes a night what happens with Gunnarson and Liles?
By then I imagine our current 'depth' guys like Komisarek and Franson will have probably been shipped out, leaving plenty of room for Holzer/Blacker/Percy/whoever in the bottom four alongside Liles/Gunnarsson, with Phaneuf-Rielly-Gardiner as the top three.

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10-08-2012, 01:49 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Future look of our D,

Top 4 interchangable.

Percy, Finn, Rielly, Dion

Bottom pairing, Gardiner, Granberg, Fraser, Blacker, Holzer.

Top pairing.

Rielly-Percy
Shut down pair, Dion-Finn

Gardiner-Blacker/Fraser/Holzer/Granberg or trade possibility
Percy, Finn, Rielly aren't even good minor leaguers yet.

Maybe they will become NHL players, but interchangable at the NHL level?

Getting a little excited prematurely?

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10-08-2012, 02:28 PM
  #125
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Percy, Finn, Rielly aren't even good minor leaguers yet.

Maybe they will become NHL players, but interchangable at the NHL level?

Getting a little excited prematurely?
Funny how Leaf prospects are not even good minor leaguers yet Hamilton over in Beantown has already been inducted into the HOF without even playing a game in the NHL.

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