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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #526
Reimer
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Which teams are losing the most money? Phoenix, NY Isles, Florida, Carolina, Columbus? A couple others are pretty big losers?

I think most agree that teams in Quebec City and southern Ontario could certainly turn a profit, but other than those 2 places, are there any other shoo-in cities to turn a profit?

I know there are some decent candidates in Seattle, Kansas City, Hartford, Portland - but are any of these much more likely to attract fans than St Louis (who also lose money)? I'm not so sure.
That's the funny thing. Regina could likely make more money than Phoenix by selling their 3000 seat arena at $150 a ticket. Not enough to be sustainable as an NHL franchise but it would add to the HRR moreso than Phoenix.

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10-19-2012, 02:09 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Friedman says only 60% of players have contracts beyond this year? Is that true?
Not sure if it's true or not but sure great idea. We will lock out for a year and then start it up with that theory next season.

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10-19-2012, 02:23 PM
  #528
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That's the funny thing. Regina could likely make more money than Phoenix by selling their 3000 seat arena at $150 a ticket. Not enough to be sustainable as an NHL franchise but it would add to the HRR moreso than Phoenix.
Hell - I think a team here in Moncton could sell out 15-20K at decent prices. We have about 1.5 million people within a couple of hours drive. It would be the only pro sports team in the Maritimes. Wouldn't work: small town, not much to do, high taxes - nobody would sign here, and corporate sponsorship and luxury boxes would be a problem. But I have no doubt we could bring in tons more in ticket revenue than Phoenix or Florida.

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10-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Hell - I think a team here in Moncton could sell out 15-20K at decent prices. We have about 1.5 million people within a couple of hours drive. It would be the only pro sports team in the Maritimes. Wouldn't work: small town, not much to do, high taxes - nobody would sign here, and corporate sponsorship and luxury boxes would be a problem. But I have no doubt we could bring in tons more in ticket revenue than Phoenix or Florida.
Oh snap the Brandt Center can hold 6100 people. That's more people than Phoenix currently sells on average and at a higher ticket price than a pair of free tickets in a case of Mikes hard can't be hard to beat.

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10-19-2012, 04:07 PM
  #530
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I wonder if Bettman's plan is to get enough struggling teams so he can justify a European division?

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10-19-2012, 04:35 PM
  #531
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You know, that Globe and Mail article is actually a really good read.

Makes the PA proposals much more understandable. I guess the players saying "we're coming to 50% within 5 years" is a huge deal for them.

Bettman wants it right away.
Not a single one of their proposals offers any guarantee of a 50/50 split, and even if they did, there is no reason or precedent that says they should get 5 years to get there.

The owners came up from 43%. The PA needs to come down to 57% and accept some sort of creative solution, because they will never play another game at 57% of revenue. Not ever.

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10-19-2012, 05:10 PM
  #532
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Wow that's an interesting number. If there ever was a time to get rid of some bottom feeder teams now's the time to cut ties.

Let's be honest if the lockout lasts a whole season loud mouth Biz Nasty likely won't be an NHLer anymore as well as probably 2.5 of 5(includung the 13th and 14th forwards) 4th liners from every team.
Basically 1/4-1/3 of some teams' rosters would not be back if you look at the bubble guys and the older guys. All of them will be seen as too old or replaceable by a guy who has been playing in the AHL or Europe the whole time.

Messier and Hull, who both had another good year or two in them pre-lockout, were both forced to retire because at that age you have to keep playing or you just cannot go back. Guys like Smyth, Pronger, and basically any player approaching 33 or older should be very concerned about this. So should guys like Corey Potter and any other teams' version of "test players". They will all be replaced by guys in the system who have been playing together for a year or more and building chemistry and respect for each other and are now ready for the NHL.

EDIT: Does anyone know/have a list of all the NHLers from last year sorted by age? Also one sorted by deal length? This would be an interesting exercise to look at who has the most to lose in this negotiation in terms of short contracts and older players. Thanks in advance.

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Old
10-19-2012, 05:19 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I wonder if Bettman's plan is to get enough struggling teams so he can justify a European division?
Totally off topic, but since I was a kid, I always thought an international league would be awesome.

North America conference (USA and Canada division) and a European conference (Europe division and Russia/Eastern Block division) Play majority of games within your conference with maybe one or 2 transatlantic trips per year...

Playoff logistics could be a nightmare, but I think there are certainly better cities in Europe (for hockey) than Phoenix: Stockholm, Helsinki, Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Vienna, Prague, Milan, Zurich, Warsaw, Frankfurt, Copenhagen, Minsk, Kiev, St Petersburg, Moscow...

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10-19-2012, 05:39 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
EDIT: Does anyone know/have a list of all the NHLers from last year sorted by age? Also one sorted by deal length? This would be an interesting exercise to look at who has the most to lose in this negotiation in terms of short contracts and older players. Thanks in advance.
Just went to NHL.com stats, BIO, sort by age at end of 2012:

42 Years old: Niklas Lidstrom, Teemu Selanne

41 Years old: Sean O'Donnell

40: Jaromir Jagr, Ray Whitney, Mike Knuble, Daniel Alfredsson

39: Tomas Holmstrom, Brian Rolston, John Madden, Adrian Aucoin, Steve Staios, Andrew Brunette, Jason Blake

38: Jaroslav Spacek, Roman Hamrlik, Sergei Gonchar, Steve Sullivan, Sami Salo, Chris Pronger, Jason Arnott, Jamal Mayers, Saku Koivu, Jay Pandolfo, Scott Nichol

37: Todd Bertuzzi, Vinny Prospal, Andy Sutton, Kimmo Timonen, Hal Gill, Martin St Louis, Andreas Lilja, Jamie Langenbrunner, Brendan Morrison, Ethan Moreau, Francis Bouillon

36: Jody Shelley, Bryce Salvador, Milan Hejduk, Ryan Smyth, Patrik Elias, Jeff Halpern, Richard Park, Ed Jovanovski, Dan Boyle, Sheldon Souray, Lubomir Visnovsky, Eric Boulton, Radek Martinek, Daymond Langkow, Shane Doan, Matt Cullen, Petr Sykora, Mathieu Darche, Brett Clark, Mikael Samuelsson, Filip Kuba

35: Marek Zidlicky, Marty Reasoner, Stephane Robidas, Radek Dvorak, Michal Handzus, Zdeno Chara, Pavel Kubina, Willie Mitchell, Craig Adams, Mark Eaton, Trent Whitfield, Joe Corvo, Jochen Hecht, Jarome Iginla, Shawn Thornton, Andy McDonald, Toni Lydman, Danny Briere, Josh Green, Mark Streit, Colin White, Eric Belanger, Samuel Pahlsson

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10-19-2012, 05:41 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Just went to NHL.com stats, BIO, sort by age at end of 2012:

42 Years old: Niklas Lidstrom, Teemu Selanne

41 Years old: Sean O'Donnell

40: Jaromir Jagr, Ray Whitney, Mike Knuble, Daniel Alfredsson

39: Tomas Holmstrom, Brian Rolston, John Madden, Adrian Aucoin, Steve Staios, Andrew Brunette, Jason Blake

38: Jaroslav Spacek, Roman Hamrlik, Sergei Gonchar, Steve Sullivan, Sami Salo, Chris Pronger, Jason Arnott, Jamal Mayers, Saku Koivu, Jay Pandolfo, Scott Nichol

37: Todd Bertuzzi, Vinny Prospal, Andy Sutton, Kimmo Timonen, Hal Gill, Martin St Louis, Andreas Lilja, Jamie Langenbrunner, Brendan Morrison, Ethan Moreau, Francis Bouillon

36: Jody Shelley, Bryce Salvador, Milan Hejduk, Ryan Smyth, Patrik Elias, Jeff Halpern, Richard Park, Ed Jovanovski, Dan Boyle, Sheldon Souray, Lubomir Visnovsky, Eric Boulton, Radek Martinek, Daymond Langkow, Shane Doan, Matt Cullen, Petr Sykora, Mathieu Darche, Brett Clark, Mikael Samuelsson, Filip Kuba

35: Marek Zidlicky, Marty Reasoner, Stephane Robidas, Radek Dvorak, Michal Handzus, Zdeno Chara, Pavel Kubina, Willie Mitchell, Craig Adams, Mark Eaton, Trent Whitfield, Joe Corvo, Jochen Hecht, Jarome Iginla, Shawn Thornton, Andy McDonald, Toni Lydman, Danny Briere, Josh Green, Mark Streit, Colin White, Eric Belanger, Samuel Pahlsson
Thanks. You have to think most of these guys would be gone if there is a full year lock out with a few exceptions due to contracts. I think all would be less effective for sure regardless of talent level. You just cannot take a year off at that age.

Edit: I see lots of Europeans there. They likely go to Europe this year and stay if they don't have a contract beyond next year. Pretty hard to see guys like Dvorak and Hecht coming back with a year away from the NHL.

Anyone have a list of guys on one-two year deals?

Here is the direct link to the player age sorted on NHL.com. Thanks Hoogar23!
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...&viewName=bios


Last edited by Seedling: 10-19-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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Old
10-19-2012, 06:11 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Anyone have a list of guys on one-two year deals?
From Capgeek, you can search by UFA year, here:

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/

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10-19-2012, 06:24 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
From Capgeek, you can search by UFA year, here:

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/
Thanks!

I clicked on the "age" and it sorted it here: http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?...1&fa_type_id=2

Having had a look at the combination of the NHL site and the capgeek site, I would say that you will find guys up to page 12 on the NHL list (not all of course but some on every page), that should the NHL miss a full year or more, will not be in the league when it resumes.

I have not even looked at the prospects on one year deals....

On the first five pages on the NHL.com stats, I would say that about 25-40% of those guys would not get offers or go beyond their current contract if the NHL resumes in one year, especially if there is a change to the status of whether or not contracts are guaranteed. If they move towards a non-guaranteed contract (nothing on that yet as far as I have heard so just speculation on my part), then I would say as many as 60% of those players are at risk of being cut should that become possible.

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10-19-2012, 06:43 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Hell - I think a team here in Moncton could sell out 15-20K at decent prices. We have about 1.5 million people within a couple of hours drive. It would be the only pro sports team in the Maritimes. Wouldn't work: small town, not much to do, high taxes - nobody would sign here, and corporate sponsorship and luxury boxes would be a problem. But I have no doubt we could bring in tons more in ticket revenue than Phoenix or Florida.
the just might work. in regards to the people that have to drive in, my only question is(and don't take this as a slight): are there enough people to shell out the 3 to 5 hundy for 2 tix, gas, supper, etc? throw in a hotel room and you're looking at about 6 hun.

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10-19-2012, 06:53 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Oh snap the Brandt Center can hold 6100 people. That's more people than Phoenix currently sells on average and at a higher ticket price than a pair of free tickets in a case of Mikes hard can't be hard to beat.
In the last 5 years, NYI and Phoenix have had the worst average attendance in the league (NYI 3 times, and Phoenix twice) and not once has either of them fell below 11,000

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10-19-2012, 10:45 PM
  #540
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Totally off topic, but since I was a kid, I always thought an international league would be awesome.

North America conference (USA and Canada division) and a European conference (Europe division and Russia/Eastern Block division) Play majority of games within your conference with maybe one or 2 transatlantic trips per year...

Playoff logistics could be a nightmare, but I think there are certainly better cities in Europe (for hockey) than Phoenix: Stockholm, Helsinki, Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Vienna, Prague, Milan, Zurich, Warsaw, Frankfurt, Copenhagen, Minsk, Kiev, St Petersburg, Moscow...
One thing I've wanted for ages is for the IIHF to do a FIFA style Champions League for hockey. Top 4 teams from the NHL (semi-finalists from the previous Stanley Cup Playoffs), Top 2 teams from the KHL, Eliteserien and SM-Liiga, and have a pre-tournament qualifying round where the champions of the Czech, Slovak, Swiss and German leagues play each other for 2 slots.

12 teams - 4 groups of 3 teams that play a home and away round-robin format, then the best team from each group plays a home and away semi-final, followed by a winner-takes-all one-game final on neutral ice. Each team would play anywhere between 4 and 7 games over the course of the season, and the final could take place before the playoffs begin.

Logistical nightmare? Yes.

Impossible? No.

100% Sheer Awesomeness? Definitely.

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10-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #541
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So when the PA makes the counter offer, does it go to a 30 team vote? How does this process work because I feel like at least 15 owners want this to end, or does it have to be unanimous?

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10-20-2012, 05:59 PM
  #542
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Bettman will decide if he thinks there is a better deal out there.

Then he will discuss what it will take to get the better deal.

Then they will make a vote.

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10-20-2012, 06:02 PM
  #543
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So when the PA makes the counter offer, does it go to a 30 team vote? How does this process work because I feel like at least 15 owners want this to end, or does it have to be unanimous?
It's either 6 or 8 teams only that have to vote to keep it going. I agree though. By all accounts it seems like the majority of the owners want it over more than they want a few extra bucks

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10-21-2012, 12:58 PM
  #544
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What I want to see is the PA come out with the information of the number of games missed pay equals the hair cut the owners offered the players.

Thats the point at which they stop being good union members and when it becomes obvious that they are as dense as fence posts and striking for the benefit of their player agents.

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10-22-2012, 07:24 PM
  #545
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@TEAM1040: RT @louisjean_tva: #NHL GM's'were afforded a 48 hour window this weekend to discuss league proposal with players. (1/2)

@TEAM1040: RT @louisjean_tva: Bill Daly says : "Permitted to answer player questions about the proposal we tabled last week"


At what point do we start talking about cancelling a full season? I'm guessing February correct?

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10-22-2012, 07:45 PM
  #546
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Jagr's thoughts.

Quote:
“I believe the owners want to play as many games as possible. It doesn’t mean much that we’ve lost a month. You get eight to nine games in during that month, and that doesn’t ruin the entire season. You can always make adjustments. You can have the playoffs games on every second day. It (the playoffs) is all over the place now because of television.”

Jagr is currently off the playing roster at his native Kladno because of an injury, but he’s still the owner of the club. His ownership status must have influenced his answer to the site’s question about what he thinks of Alexander Ovechkin’s round condemnation of the league. Ovechkin said the owners were trying to “cheat” the players out of paying their existing contracts.

“Cheating. I don’t know what he meant by the word. When someone owns something and wants to make as much as possible, you can’t call that cheating. You’d have to call a half of the world cheaters. It’s simply business. True, they need us to do the business, but still, they own it. And another thing: hockey is not the main thing for most of the owners. They make their money elsewhere. Unlike us, hockey players. They set the rules, no doubt about that.”

So, the Czech reporters inquired, what’s going to change between now and December?

“Everybody knows,” said Jagr, “that the first month (of the season) is nothing like a rose garden for the NHL. Only a few make some money, they face huge competition in American football and baseball. The baseball competition is getting into its playoffs, so, one competitor is gone, and the interest will switch to something else. And that something else is hockey. Simply, the first two months (of the season) aren’t as interesting for the owners as the rest. It doesn’t bother anybody that they’re going to lose the first month and a half.”

The topic of NHL commissioner Gary Bettman was on the agenda, too. What do you think, idnes.cz asked, is Bettman a great negotiator or someone who doesn’t give a hoot about hockey?

“First of all, I don’t believe he would be doing anything without hearing from the owners first. That he’d do something on his own during negotiations, no. He’s not that kind of a player. These are billionaires, there are 30 of them, so, he’s got his instructions. It does not depend on him only, definitely not.”
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...mir-jagr-says/

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10-22-2012, 08:01 PM
  #547
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Jaromir Jagr the most rational NHL player of the bunch. Who would have thought it?

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10-22-2012, 08:02 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
@TEAM1040: RT @louisjean_tva: #NHL GM's'were afforded a 48 hour window this weekend to discuss league proposal with players. (1/2)

@TEAM1040: RT @louisjean_tva: Bill Daly says : "Permitted to answer player questions about the proposal we tabled last week"


At what point do we start talking about cancelling a full season? I'm guessing February correct?
Yes in the last lockout the season was cancelled mid february it might even be earlier this time so I'd guess mid to late January

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10-22-2012, 08:35 PM
  #549
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My friend posted this on facebook

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10-22-2012, 08:40 PM
  #550
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Jaromir Jagr the most rational NHL player of the bunch. Who would have thought it?
He owns his own team, so he understands what they are battling for. I wonder what his opinion was like before he owned his own team?

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