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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-26-2012, 05:58 PM
  #626
T-Funk
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Didn't he make some kind of asinine comment about the players souring on the salary cap a few weeks ago?
Think so

but IMO the end result of him going after the salary cap is a 1 or 2 season lockout with the end result of no guaranteed contracts

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10-26-2012, 06:01 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i've been waiting to hear what the players "end game" is, and i've yet to hear anything at all on the subject.... with the cancellation of the november games, they have already lost most money this season than they would have if they would have accepted the NHL offer... the math simply doesn't add up
My guess is at this point the NHLPA's end game is to try and preserve the value of existing contracts upfront as possible.

It would be funny to see Fehr seriously even try to take the cap off the table, it's a complete non-starter. The NHL would cancel the next 3 seasons before ever agreeing to that.

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10-26-2012, 06:04 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Think so

but IMO the end result of him going after the salary cap is a 1 or 2 season lockout with the end result of no guaranteed contracts
Fehr is the destroyer of seasons so it wouldn't surprise me at all if it came to that.

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Old
10-26-2012, 07:39 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
I place 95% of the blame on the union, players and agents for this one. Do they honestly think they will "win" the battle when most owners benefit from not playing at all as opposed to playing and losing money? If the owners offered a deal where majority of the players had to pay money to play this coming season rather than get payed, do the owners think the players would accept it? Me either.
This is kind of where I am too right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong(I haven't followed this as closely as I would've liked too), but the NHLPA haven't really moved from the 57% HRR split they have wanted from the start have they?

Considering the NFLPA got their players a split between 46-48% of league revenues. This is the NFL, a much more profitable league overall.

It seems the players wont budge from their position.

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10-26-2012, 10:51 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Well at least Taylor Hall's shoulder is going to have ample time to heal up.

The Forbes numbers aren't accurate, just guesstimates, but the Islanders have a pretty sweet TV deal due to being in the New York area, that's probably why they take home a bit more cash.
Add Whitney to the healing time out. This will prove to be almost as valuable by my estimation. Yeah. I'm a know it all.

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Old
10-26-2012, 11:42 PM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i've been waiting to hear what the players "end game" is, and i've yet to hear anything at all on the subject.... with the cancellation of the november games, they have already lost most money this season than they would have if they would have accepted the NHL offer... the math simply doesn't add up
This presumes that rational logic is involved in a labor impasse.

Which is not always the case.

The math was even worse last time when the NHLPa gave up a complete season AND got a worse deal than if they had simply settled proactively.

Bettman is saying the offers from here are likely less good due to lost income but nobody listening.

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10-27-2012, 12:03 AM
  #632
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The poll should be changed to, how many seasons can we lose before NHL players decided to play a game for millions of dollars a year.

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Old
10-27-2012, 12:09 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This presumes that rational logic is involved in a labor impasse.

Which is not always the case.

The math was even worse last time when the NHLPa gave up a complete season AND got a worse deal than if they had simply settled proactively.

Bettman is saying the offers from here are likely less good due to lost income but nobody listening
.
Its a complete headscratcher really. I can't imagine how the Players think there is any chance they will win. As I said a few times, half the NHL owners are losing money. I really think the Owners are willing to just shut the NHL down before giving into the player. The players just have so much more to lose. The fact they can't have a collective reality check is tragic to watch really.

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10-27-2012, 05:30 AM
  #634
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This lockout has seriously soured my opinion on a lot of players... all I can say is I'm glad you don't see really any of the Oiler's players making ***** of themselves

The Krys Barch's and Paul Bissonnette's, Bryzgalof's, ovechkins, kostytins (sp?) of this lockout and every other player that can't keep their mouth shut can pretty much go and die for all I care

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10-27-2012, 05:34 AM
  #635
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It really sucks that the players are eventually going to accept an offer similar or worse then the offer made last week

I don't know if you guys heard darren dreger's example on thats hockey a couple night ago. I'll summerize it.

I guy like Iginla who is nearing the end of his career lost 7 million last lockout and is posed to lose another 7 million this lockout that'll be 14 million in lost money for Iginla, that's the type of player who could realize how stupid what they're doing is ,

players must know that there is no way they will win this fight they will settle for a deal thay aren't happy about sooner or later, maybe they should settle now and avoid losing hundreds of millions of collective dollars

The nhl will likely cancel the winter classic soon especially with no talks or progrss what so ever i'd expect the cancellation within the next couple weeks

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10-27-2012, 11:56 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneo21 View Post
This lockout has seriously soured my opinion on a lot of players... all I can say is I'm glad you don't see really any of the Oiler's players making ***** of themselves

The Krys Barch's and Paul Bissonnette's, Bryzgalof's, ovechkins, kostytins (sp?) of this lockout and every other player that can't keep their mouth shut can pretty much go and die for all I care
I was thinking this too. the Oilers for the most part have been good though. Horc is a pro and stay quite. Dubnyk looks niave, but hasn't said much. THe younger players have just looked like they want it to be over and just want to play hockey.

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10-27-2012, 12:03 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I was thinking this too. the Oilers for the most part have been good though. Horc is a pro and stay quite. Dubnyk looks niave, but hasn't said much. THe younger players have just looked like they want it to be over and just want to play hockey.
Actually Horc and Dubnyk sound like complete idiots each time they open their mouth on this lockout.

With Dubnyks latest being. "We're all 100% behind getting the deal done, we just want the deal to get done."

Kind of an odd statement a week after the membership didn't even consider the NHL's 50/50 offer.

There should be a gag order..

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10-27-2012, 12:07 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Actually Horc and Dubnyk sound like complete idiots each time they open their mouth on this lockout.

With Dubnyks latest being. "We're all 100% behind getting the deal done, we just want the deal to get done."

Kind of an odd statement a week after the membership didn't even consider the NHL's 50/50 offer.

There should be a gag order..
ya, but they haven't opened their mouths that much is all I am saying

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10-27-2012, 12:09 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
It really sucks that the players are eventually going to accept an offer similar or worse then the offer made last week

I don't know if you guys heard darren dreger's example on thats hockey a couple night ago. I'll summerize it.

I guy like Iginla who is nearing the end of his career lost 7 million last lockout and is posed to lose another 7 million this lockout that'll be 14 million in lost money for Iginla, that's the type of player who could realize how stupid what they're doing is ,

players must know that there is no way they will win this fight they will settle for a deal thay aren't happy about sooner or later, maybe they should settle now and avoid losing hundreds of millions of collective dollars

The nhl will likely cancel the winter classic soon especially with no talks or progrss what so ever i'd expect the cancellation within the next couple weeks
This is how I see it as well.

The NHLPA must be serving up some pretty rich propaganda for these players to be buying it as deeply as they seem to be.

Maybe it makes long term financial sense for some of the higher paid guys who have not been through the previous lockout to sit for this one, but they are a definitive minority amoung the NHLPA. What about the vast majority of players who have 1-5 year careers and are making under $2.5 mil on short term deals? Not only are these guys potentially losing a year of their career, they're also losing a year of high earnings that will not be available to them for a very long.

This is clearly an ideological battle from the NHLPA's side, which isn't surprising considering who is at the helm.

I was pondering the other day whether or not we would be in a lockout if Paul Kelly was still head of the PA. Highly unlikely IMO. He seemed like the kind of guy who was willing to collaborate with the NHL on creating a business model that would work for both sides long term in order to avoid this kind of thing every 7 years. Too bad it seems that anyone willing to work with the NHL in a constructive manner is incompatible with the powers that be within the PA.

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10-27-2012, 12:13 PM
  #640
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ya, but they haven't opened their mouths that much is all I am saying
Yeah, duct tape would be an improvement.

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10-27-2012, 12:52 PM
  #641
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Yeah, duct tape would be an improvement.
I honestly havent seen anything from Horc Or Dub but in all fairness Dubnyk is our PA Rep
If the players just say "ya we want to get a deal done" then so be it its better than coming out and sounding like a complete moron by saying the NHL is bullying them etc

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10-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by Daneo21 View Post
I honestly havent seen anything from Horc Or Dub but in all fairness Dubnyk is our PA Rep
If the players just say "ya we want to get a deal done" then so be it its better than coming out and sounding like a complete moron by saying the NHL is bullying them etc
or their getting a shakedown. Like what does that even mean. I want to ask one of the many NHL players who said that to define a shakedown lol

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10-27-2012, 01:13 PM
  #643
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Peckham's comments from back in August were the worst. "You've got to look out for what's best for you and your family."

Wut. You're a fringe NHLer at best, buddy. You should be counting your lucky stars every damn day that some NHL team was stupid enough to give you a seven figure contract. Bottomline, you're well compensated and it's mostly undeserved. So shut up.

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10-27-2012, 01:16 PM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daneo21 View Post
I honestly havent seen anything from Horc Or Dub but in all fairness Dubnyk is our PA Rep
If the players just say "ya we want to get a deal done" then so be it its better than coming out and sounding like a complete moron by saying the NHL is bullying them etc
Its just that when a Rep states that his association is 100% ALL in favor of just getting a deal done" it suggest something entirely different than rejecting the NHL offer without even considering it.

I mean if the players truly wanted to get this done that was of course possible for them. All they have to do is sign.

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10-27-2012, 01:48 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Peckham's comments from back in August were the worst. "You've got to look out for what's best for you and your family."

Wut. You're a fringe NHLer at best, buddy. You should be counting your lucky stars every damn day that some NHL team was stupid enough to give you a seven figure contract. Bottomline, you're well compensated and it's mostly undeserved. So shut up.
probably the biggest thing I don't get is players like Ovy could mouth of. HE could probably make nearly as much playing in the KHL. So he can afford to say things. IT is guys like Peckham that must be totally brainwashed. They could make 500k a couple times in the NHL or like 50K maybe in the AHL. their other options are far worse than the NHL. THey are the guys that should be so anti lock out. They should not want a lock out under any circumstance. It kills guys like that. It could litterally mean makeing 500k a few times or having to work at a factory when your hockey career is done. the diff between a comfortable life and one where you have to work like the rest of us to get buy.

I dont get it.

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10-27-2012, 01:52 PM
  #646
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probably the biggest thing I don't get is players like Ovy could mouth of. HE could probably make nearly as much playing in the KHL. So he can afford to say things. IT is guys like Peckham that must be totally brainwashed. They could make 500k a couple times in the NHL or like 50K maybe in the AHL. their other options are far worse than the NHL. THey are the guys that should be so anti lock out. They should not want a lock out under any circumstance. It kills guys like that. It could litterally mean makeing 500k a few times or having to work at a factory when your hockey career is done. the diff between a comfortable life and one where you have to work like the rest of us to get buy.

I dont get it.
yeah it really, really, really doesn't make any sense.... especially when you consider that 50-60% of the NHLPA members are in the "peckham family"... the bulk of the membership are guys who are 3rd/4th lines players who's career is about 5-6 years long

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10-27-2012, 01:54 PM
  #647
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I have attempted to model to league's proposal in excel to the extent that I understand it.

This isn't the most readable document, but I think it still gets the point across. The players should have taken the offer as it stood last week.



It appears the leagues proposal was effectively a salary freeze, if we assume either 5 or 7.5% growth under the new CBA. If we assume 2% growth, players existing contracts are not honoured in full until 2017/2018. However, even under a low growth scenario, the loss is minimal, and has already been negated by the lost salary from this season alone.

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10-27-2012, 01:58 PM
  #648
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yeah it really, really, really doesn't make any sense.... especially when you consider that 50-60% of the NHLPA members are in the "peckham family"... the bulk of the membership are guys who are 3rd/4th lines players who's career is about 5-6 years long
ya, it really makes you wonder about a lot of things. The union mentality ect. I am not anti untion, but it just makes you wonder. I mean it just doesn't seem to benifit the vast majority. The NHL is so good to the majority of players. guys like peckham. they stand to gain so little from a lock out and so much from just playing.

To me the NHL owners stance at least makes a lot of sense. The majority are not making money. it is totally logical to do what they are doing. the NHLPA's logic is just a mystery. It really is.

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10-27-2012, 03:23 PM
  #649
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Downgoesbrown had it figured out 3 years ago. This was funny, but in the end, not far from the truth

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/08...aul-kelly.html

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10-27-2012, 05:41 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Actually Horc and Dubnyk sound like complete idiots each time they open their mouth on this lockout.

With Dubnyks latest being. "We're all 100% behind getting the deal done, we just want the deal to get done."

Kind of an odd statement a week after the membership didn't even consider the NHL's 50/50 offer.

There should be a gag order..
I think I lost brain cells reading Belanger's interview in the journal

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