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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:39 AM
  #176
Hoogaar23
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
toronto is in it this year, that means a huge revenue bubble coming in. all day coverage on NBC as well as obviously canada
I'm aware of the teams participating. My question was how much money is at stake for that one game.

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10-10-2012, 10:11 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
I'm aware of the teams participating. My question was how much money is at stake for that one game.
200mill approx. Probably more because Toronto is in this one.

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10-10-2012, 11:18 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
200mill approx. Probably more because Toronto is in this one.
Are you kidding? Is there one too many 0s there? Where would all that be coming from?

The gate would be what, $18M-$20M (115,000*~$150 avg ticket price?). And maybe a couple million from the alumni games?

Then whatever NBC pays for it, which I have no clue how much that is. And then do they get anything from HBO for 24/7?

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10-10-2012, 11:24 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Why the winter classic though? I hear people talk about THAT game as the point of no return, and there's no doubt it is the single most lucrative regular season game of the year, but how much is that single game really worth to the league? I know long term it would be devastating to lose it just this year, but from just from a $ standpoint, how much goes into the league's coffers for this game?
It's not just money coming from the game itself which is a massive amount considering all the work that goes into the game and it being 2 original 6 teams etc., it's also the 24/7 program that is entirely based on the Winter Classic so it would be a big loss to the league on many fronts if the Winter Classic isn't played. Hopefully an early November drop dead date will put even more pressure on them along with potential sponsors dropping out and NBC sports becoming impatient.
I keep thinking that these two sides are way too irrational to save the season but then again, there is so much more to lose if they cancel the entire season for both sides than if they settle for an unfavorable deal. It really makes no sense that there hasn't been more urgency up until this point but i guess massive ego stroking overcomes any fear of monetary loss.

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10-10-2012, 12:10 PM
  #180
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I don't know how much money is at stake for the winter classic but its definitely super important my question is when would they cancel it the game is set for jan 1st but consider the amount of preparation I see it being cancelled as early as a month ahead not like 2 weeks like other games
The cancelation of the winter classic will likely also be the point I go from thinking there is hockey yet to come to the season is over


Last edited by 402: 10-10-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old
10-10-2012, 12:19 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Why the winter classic though? I hear people talk about THAT game as the point of no return, and there's no doubt it is the single most lucrative regular season game of the year, but how much is that single game really worth to the league? I know long term it would be devastating to lose it just this year, but from just from a $ standpoint, how much goes into the league's coffers for this game?
HBO 24/7 & NBC coverage are huge dollars. No game, none of that - and for 24/7 to be done they need to play the month of December because thats typically how the show has been done, following both teams through the month before the Winter Classic is played.

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10-10-2012, 12:33 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
HBO 24/7 & NBC coverage are huge dollars. No game, none of that - and for 24/7 to be done they need to play the month of December because thats typically how the show has been done, following both teams through the month before the Winter Classic is played.
Does the league get any $ from that (24/7)? I understand there are more far reaching implications to cancelling that game, but IMO these are groups (PA and Owners) that can't see the forest for the trees, that's why I was trying to find out how much in actual dollars they would lose by not having the game. They expect around 115,000 at ticket prices between $87 and $279 with the majority at $129 and $149, so avg around $150 for about an $18M gate - definitely a significant amount, plus about $2-$3M for the alumni game (tickets from $18-$38). So assuming a sold out game and close to sold out alumni game, possibly over $20M just in ticket sales.

Then you have to think it would be one of the single biggest merchandise sales days ever (right after Christmas, biggest crowd ever, 2 of the most popular teams in the league)

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10-10-2012, 02:47 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Does the league get any $ from that (24/7)? I understand there are more far reaching implications to cancelling that game, but IMO these are groups (PA and Owners) that can't see the forest for the trees, that's why I was trying to find out how much in actual dollars they would lose by not having the game. They expect around 115,000 at ticket prices between $87 and $279 with the majority at $129 and $149, so avg around $150 for about an $18M gate - definitely a significant amount, plus about $2-$3M for the alumni game (tickets from $18-$38). So assuming a sold out game and close to sold out alumni game, possibly over $20M just in ticket sales.

Then you have to think it would be one of the single biggest merchandise sales days ever (right after Christmas, biggest crowd ever, 2 of the most popular teams in the league)
you also have to account for ad revenue both for the broadcast and the boards/stands. huge one go profits, not superbowl big but they are large i would estimate it would be in the 50mil range

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10-10-2012, 03:22 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
you also have to account for ad revenue both for the broadcast and the boards/stands. huge one go profits, not superbowl big but they are large i would estimate it would be in the 50mil range
Wouldn't ad revenue go to NBC for airing the game? Isn't that what they are paying for?

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10-10-2012, 04:19 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Does the league get any $ from that (24/7)? I understand there are more far reaching implications to cancelling that game, but IMO these are groups (PA and Owners) that can't see the forest for the trees, that's why I was trying to find out how much in actual dollars they would lose by not having the game. They expect around 115,000 at ticket prices between $87 and $279 with the majority at $129 and $149, so avg around $150 for about an $18M gate - definitely a significant amount, plus about $2-$3M for the alumni game (tickets from $18-$38). So assuming a sold out game and close to sold out alumni game, possibly over $20M just in ticket sales.

Then you have to think it would be one of the single biggest merchandise sales days ever (right after Christmas, biggest crowd ever, 2 of the most popular teams in the league)
I would think so. HBO is getting candid access to locker rooms, coaches, players, GM's, owners, and even players families...

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10-10-2012, 06:50 PM
  #186
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I'm really getting tired of hearing all these idiots shouting,
"Fire Bettman so we can have hockey back!"

You try and tell them firing Bettman won't end the lockout cause the owners demands would be still the same and they will actually argue with you denying that fact.

http://www.facebook.com/events/402312739835043/

So now they are going to wear NHL jerseys to support getting hockey back and to fire Bettman, who by the way caused the Canucks to lose the Stanley Cup.

Tried tell them that by wearing NHL products you are supporting the owners and Bettman, but I just get told "Doesn't matter I'm a Canucks fan".

Seriously people, If you support the players side fine but at least know what the **** is going on!


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10-10-2012, 08:03 PM
  #187
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NHL TV deal = $200M per year.

NBA TV deal = $930M per year.

Think the owners in the NBA were a little more urgent to get a deal done?

Like I said, apples and oranges.

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10-12-2012, 12:42 AM
  #188
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The NHL and the players have already lost more $$$ this season than what the Winter Classic brings in. Sure losing the Winter Classic is a huge loss, but so is losing the entire pre-season revenue stream plus all the games in October (which is obviously happening)... plus I assume we are close to losing some November games at this point as well since they still aren't talking major issues in negotiations.

I'm not downplaying the Winter Classic as it is an important "drop dead date" but to say that it's uber important when it accounts for likely just $200 million of the total $3.3 billion+ revenue yearly, is likely overstating its importance.

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10-12-2012, 01:04 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
The NHL and the players have already lost more $$$ this season than what the Winter Classic brings in. Sure losing the Winter Classic is a huge loss, but so is losing the entire pre-season revenue stream plus all the games in October (which is obviously happening)... plus I assume we are close to losing some November games at this point as well since they still aren't talking major issues in negotiations.

I'm not downplaying the Winter Classic as it is an important "drop dead date" but to say that it's uber important when it accounts for likely just $200 million of the total $3.3 billion+ revenue yearly, is likely overstating its importance.
The winter classic was a measuring stick for what would happen prior to the cancellation of the pre-season and first 82 games. They will be cancelling games into November very shortly.

You are correct - the winter classic has lost it's worth as a "changing moment" in this debacle.

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10-12-2012, 01:59 AM
  #190
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this will not end until the owners get exactly what they want.

IMO, the players have no chance. none. there is no way they can outwait the owners.

contraction would be the ultimate finishing move for the owners.

4 less teams and 92 less jobs for the players.

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10-12-2012, 04:57 PM
  #191
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200 mill for the NHL TV deal? That is laughable, wow. I mean peanuts, really.

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10-12-2012, 05:00 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Wouldn't ad revenue go to NBC for airing the game? Isn't that what they are paying for?
not the ads on the boards/arenas, i pretty sure that goes to the team/stadium

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10-12-2012, 05:43 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post
this will not end until the owners get exactly what they want.

IMO, the players have no chance. none. there is no way they can outwait the owners.

contraction would be the ultimate finishing move for the owners.

4 less teams and 92 less jobs for the players.
Agreed.

To put it into perspective.

It's Taylor Hall trying to outwait Daryl Katz and think that will put pressure on Katz financially.

It's simply isn't realistic or going to happen.

Hall has so much more to lose than Katz in losing a year, or two years or five years.

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10-13-2012, 07:22 PM
  #194
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Bargaining talks are going to resume on tuesday details of the talks haven't been finalized yet
I really am hoping someone has a proposal or something significant to say this time, more games will likely be cancelled soon

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10-14-2012, 09:02 PM
  #195
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Once the players receive their final cheque this month (escrow) **** is going to get real.

Bettman is going to bloody the nose of the NHLPA.

It makes me laugh how few of the players understand simple economics.

Fehr could tell most of the players to trade in their dimes for nickels because nickels are bigger after all.

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10-15-2012, 02:34 PM
  #196
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You gotta wonder how stupid the wives of older players are making their husbands feel for pissing their last taste of the NHL away.

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10-15-2012, 10:40 PM
  #197
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You gotta wonder how stupid the wives of older players are making their husbands feel for pissing their last taste of the NHL away.
Oh well, at least the garage will get cleaned.

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10-15-2012, 11:03 PM
  #198
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100% of nothing is 0$. Scott Gomez should be begging to play.

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10-16-2012, 09:50 AM
  #199
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This feeling of helplessness is getting to me. I'm trying to think of an appropriate response to both the players and owners regarding our displeasure at their idiocy. I wonder if all of the fans at the games walked out right after the national anthems. Not right out of the building but out of the stands to the concession areas. Do it with a lot of noise and booing. Then return after the next whistle and boo again. There is little of substance that fans can do without hurting ourselves, so this pathetic response is all that I can muster.

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10-16-2012, 12:43 PM
  #200
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The NHL offered the PA 50-50 today.

This is all on the PA now. If they aren't willing to counter offer on that, the season will be lost.

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