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Jari Kurri or Pavel Datsuyk

View Poll Results: Which one was/is better?
Jari Kurri 65 80.25%
Pavel Datsuyk 16 19.75%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-02-2012, 09:11 AM
  #1
TAnnala
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Jari Kurri or Pavel Datsuyk

So, i was thinking about this.

Which one of these two players played the game better? Datsyuk or Kurri?

Kurri's career began in the early 80's. He had the opportunity to play in one of the highest scoring years in the history. He also played with #99 who absolutely inflated his stats too. But for the record, Jari did have a 100+ point season after Wayne was sold to Los Angeles. Here is Jari's stats.

1251 GP
601G
797A
1398P

Adjusted stats:
503G
682A
1185P

Posting a career high of 135 points and breaking 130 points twice. 1X 70 Goal season and 7X 40 goal scorer. Highly touted as one of the best two-way wingers of all-time. Jari was know from his working attitude, humble character and great offensive force.

Pavel Datsuyk was drafted as late as 6th round and #171 overall. A complete steal from Red Wings organisation. Pavel is known from his mindbogglingly good stick-handling and Selke winning defensive play. Datsuyk has the upside of being one of the best two-way center's and forwards ever. Which he has pretty much achieved. Datsuyk is more well known from his play-making ability, which has lead him to post 3 consecutive 60+ assist seasons in a row plus one 59 assist season. Here is Pavel's stats.

732 GP
240G
478A
718P

Adjusted stats:

261G
504A
765P

Now Datsuyk is obviously in the middle of his career, so it is hard to judge this. But i firmly believe that we have seen the peak of Pavel and he is starting to regress. So, if we would assume to his career to go down as normal projection he would be a bit under PPG and bit over 1000 games. Maybe even in the 1100+ games.



Now which of these players were better in their primes? Kurri as a lethal but Selke caliber winger or Datsuyk as a elite offensive center with a Selke winning performance.

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Old
10-02-2012, 09:53 AM
  #2
PointL00kout
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Jari Kurri for me.

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:00 AM
  #3
King Forsberg
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I don't see how it can't be Kurri

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:04 AM
  #4
kmad
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I don't think we can call Datsyuk an elite offensive center. He only hit 80 points four times.

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:05 AM
  #5
King Woodballs
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Curry for me

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:23 AM
  #6
TAnnala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
I don't think we can call Datsyuk an elite offensive center. He only hit 80 points four times.
Hitting 80 points is good/great, no elite. Hitting 97 points back to back in a low scoring era is elite. Any way you slice it.

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Old
10-02-2012, 10:25 AM
  #7
Beville
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Kurri...

Although he had the advantage of playing during the high scoring era...

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:16 AM
  #8
pdd
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Datsyuk and Kurri have had similar offensive peaks based on adjusted stats. Datsyuk is definitely the better defensive player. Datsyuk also has had the disadvantage of playing on a team that focuses on defense from all lines rather than a team that had two lines exclusively for offense and two lines exclusively for defense.

Also, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, and Valtteri Filppula are not Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, and Glenn Anderson. An aged Nicklas Lidstrom is not a prime Paul Coffey.

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:55 AM
  #9
InfinityIggy
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Easily Kurri.

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Old
10-02-2012, 11:59 AM
  #10
Habs 4 Life
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Jari Kurri

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:06 PM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
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Regular seasons aside, Kurri has 233 points in 200 playoff games. Datsyuk has 94 points in 126 playoff games.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:07 PM
  #12
worraps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Datsyuk and Kurri have had similar offensive peaks based on adjusted stats. Datsyuk is definitely the better defensive player. Datsyuk also has had the disadvantage of playing on a team that focuses on defense from all lines rather than a team that had two lines exclusively for offense and two lines exclusively for defense.

Also, Henrik Zetterberg, Johan Franzen, and Valtteri Filppula are not Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, and Glenn Anderson. An aged Nicklas Lidstrom is not a prime Paul Coffey.
There is nothing definite about that statement. Kurri is one of the best two way forwards in history. Selke voting was biased against skilled offensive players in the 80s.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:08 PM
  #13
TheDevilMadeMe
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Back to the regular season, Kurri finished 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th in points. Datsyuk finished 4th, 4th in points. You could argue that taking the Gretzky factor into account, their 2 best seasons are the same, but the problem is that Datsyuk only has 2 seasons as an elite offensive player.

This one isn't close.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:09 PM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
There is nothing definite about that statement. Kurri is one of the best two way forwards in history. Selke voting was biased against skilled offensive players in the 80s.
And it's biased towards offensive players who can check today.

Given the different voting standards, I don't think either player has a more impressive Selke record than the other.

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:41 PM
  #15
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Kurri.

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Old
10-02-2012, 03:29 PM
  #16
TAnnala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
And it's biased towards offensive players who can check today.

Given the different voting standards, I don't think either player has a more impressive Selke record than the other.
So it comes down to offense then? In that point it is not close. Kurri beats Datsuyk in regular season offense by a slight margin and Kurri absolutely destroys Pavel in playoff offense. If my memory is correct, Kurri led the PostSeason in goals two times.

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Old
10-02-2012, 04:53 PM
  #17
tony d
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Jari Kurri.

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Old
10-02-2012, 05:48 PM
  #18
Machinehead
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Kurri very easily. Defense is alot closer than offense here.

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Old
10-03-2012, 08:52 AM
  #19
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This poll restored my faith in the hfboards community.

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Old
10-03-2012, 01:11 PM
  #20
Le Magnifique 66
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Kurri pretty easily

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Old
10-03-2012, 04:23 PM
  #21
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The idea that Datsyuk is not an elite offensive player is just ridiculous. You have eyes. Use them to watch the hockey games.

edit: we can even talk about it this way. What is an elite offensive player? I would argue it's a first liner with the skill to beat and score/cause others to score on the best defenders and goaltenders in the league, and does it on a regular basis. The type of player that other players marvel at and feel humbled by. The kind of player who dominates other players when he's on the ice.

Datsyuk fits all of that.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 10-03-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
10-03-2012, 04:34 PM
  #22
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler View Post
The idea that Datsyuk is not an elite offensive player is just ridiculous. You have eyes. Use them to watch the hockey games.

edit: we can even talk about it this way. What is an elite offensive player? I would argue it's a first liner with the skill to beat and score/cause others to score on the best defenders and goaltenders in the league, and does it on a regular basis. The type of player that other players marvel at and feel humbled by. The kind of player who dominates other players when he's on the ice.

Datsyuk fits all of that.
Regardless of how you want to define "elite," Datsyuk's numbers are quite a bit below Kurri's, even after taking era into account.

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Old
10-03-2012, 07:29 PM
  #23
silkyjohnson50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Regardless of how you want to define "elite," Datsyuk's numbers are quite a bit below Kurri's, even after taking era into account.
How close would their peaks be? I have to imagine those would be close.

The biggest problem for Datsyuk in these types of debates down the road is going to be that he suffered two injuries during two of his peak offensive seasons.

When you look at his 10-11 and 11-12 seasons on paper, it's nothing special. He was, however, top 4 in scoring and on pace to hit the 100pt mark before a wrist injury and knee injuries sidelined him those seasons - greatly impacting his offensive numbers. Many people will likely forget over time how highly he was thought of offensively during these seasons, despite the end numbers. I think it's safe to say that he's widely been regarded as a top 5 forward since 2007. I'd argue he's been a clear #4 behind the big 3 from the span of 07-08 to 11-12. But people will eventually just look at the offensive numbers and assume that he was overrated offensively without perspective.

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Old
10-03-2012, 10:24 PM
  #24
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Regardless of how you want to define "elite," Datsyuk's numbers are quite a bit below Kurri's, even after taking era into account.
I'd still pick Datsyuk for my team over Kurri. I have much respect for Kurri, and picked him over Hull, but I'd pick Datsyuk over both if I had to choose between them.

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Old
10-03-2012, 11:34 PM
  #25
Violent By Design
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Much respect for Kurri but I'd take Datsyuk. Datsyuk can do it all at an elite level, while Kurri was more of a trigger man. No knock to Kurri, but he falls into the same tier as Hull for me, without someone feeding him he's not as effective.

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