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2012 CBA Discussion II (Lockout Talk)

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Old
10-08-2012, 05:55 AM
  #151
Killerbeez
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Looks like a season slipping away. I tried to watch college hockey this weekend and remembered why I don't care for it much. Saw UMaine play an exhibition against University of New Brunswick. Two or three times during the course of the night someone would cheap shot the other with NO response from the other team. Not a push, not a facewash, not even a slash when one of the Black Bears got boarded and then carted off. The only reason you could tell that a play even happened was when the crowd cheered the penalty call of a game misconduct. Cheering for penalty calls? I definitely miss the frontier justice element of the pro and junior game over the college product.

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10-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by BergyMeister View Post
So today they will finalize the details for meetings on Wed/Thurs. Of course the meetings on Wed/Thurs will be to finalize the details for next weeks meetings.

Why don't they just shoot us and put us out of our misery?
When does it end? A meeting to talk about the meeting where they discussed having a meeting about the official meeting about the meeting between the NHLPA and NHL?

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Old
10-08-2012, 11:20 AM
  #153
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When does it end? A meeting to talk about the meeting where they discussed having a meeting about the official meeting about the meeting between the NHLPA and NHL?
This my friend is collective bargaining at its finest. Both sides probably know where they want to end up. This is the dance to get there.

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10-08-2012, 11:48 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Killerbeez View Post
Looks like a season slipping away. I tried to watch college hockey this weekend and remembered why I don't care for it much. Saw UMaine play an exhibition against University of New Brunswick. Two or three times during the course of the night someone would cheap shot the other with NO response from the other team. Not a push, not a facewash, not even a slash when one of the Black Bears got boarded and then carted off. The only reason you could tell that a play even happened was when the crowd cheered the penalty call of a game misconduct. Cheering for penalty calls? I definitely miss the frontier justice element of the pro and junior game over the college product.


Couldn't agree more. I'll generally watch a little bit of the Bean Pot and a little bit of college hockey at the end of the season. Besides that, I just can't get into it. The physical part of the NHL game is what draws me in. Which is why if fighting is banned, I'm gone.

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:02 PM
  #155
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My take on the NHLPA not negotiating last season and the NHL refusing not to play under the old agreement this season while they negotiate a new deal.

Seen this argument a lot here and now in other threads. The NHLPA did not want to negotiate last season as they "wanted every player to be able to take part in the negotiations." Conspiracy theorists believe it was for another reason, but whatever....

Some here are worried that if they played under the old agreement this year that the players would strike right before the playoffs. Don't think that's possible. Both parties would extend the CBA for one more season while they negotiate a deal and there is a provision in the CBA that prevents a strike/lockout.

So why won't the NHL agree? IMO the answer is simple: The CBA allows the NHLPA to invoke a 5% escalator - to raise the cap by 5%. Not sure they would agree to play under the old CBA and have the NHLPA do that when the ultimate goal is to get the cap down.

There are those that believe that's why the NHLPA didn't negotiate last season - because they wanted to invoke the escalator, even after the NHL had asked them not to because the CBA was expiring, yet they did. Don't really agree with this but the threat of the NHLPA doing it again had to be a major deterrent for the league.

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Old
10-08-2012, 12:30 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
I don't know about the conspiracy theorists, but on many an occasion I listened to TSN and the other reason that was tossed around was that Fehr had a lot of reading to do to make himself familiar with the CBA.
Don't buy that argument.

Fehr was hired December 18, 2010, a year and a half before the NHL wanted to start negotiating. It doesn't take a lawyer a year and a half to familiarize himself with a document.

It took a GM a couple of months to figure out how to circumvent the cap !

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Old
10-08-2012, 01:35 PM
  #158
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I can say on the conspiracy side is as far as I know the players never said that they would in fact sign any agreement going forward, only that they would play under the old agreement while they hammered out a new one.

To that, doing so would have been basically the owners slipping a noose around their necks and standing on a chair to prepare for negotiations.

If the master plan had that device in play, why was it not put forth in the eleventh hour?

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Old
10-08-2012, 07:12 PM
  #160
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So when will the players stop stalling....

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10-08-2012, 09:08 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
So when will the players stop stalling....
Yeah, when will those highly competitive, best in the world at what they do SOBs come crawling back to give the hard-done-by owners every little thing they want.

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10-08-2012, 09:14 PM
  #162
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Yeah, when will those highly competitive, best in the world at what they do SOBs come crawling back to give the hard-done-by owners every little thing they want.
I know right? They can barely afford to feed their dogs, they can't afford another rollback to keep their jobs.

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10-08-2012, 09:23 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Lobster57 View Post
Yeah, when will those highly competitive, best in the world at what they do SOBs come crawling back to give the hard-done-by owners every little thing they want.
Yup.

Fact is the couple people who call the shots (MR JACOBS) want the poorer franchises to be able to break even or make a profit and want them to achieve this by lowering player salaries not sharing revenues. And in turn allowing them to make even more than they currently are. That mans greed right now is disgusting and sickening.


Now I personally think the players should throw out a cap number (say 60-65 mil) and get rid of the % if they want to end this. Get a good deal and keep the cap even at a number for a few years. Just srike a 5-6 year deal at a fair number. So I fault them for not putting forth something like that. And given the nature of the situation the comprimise has to come from them because of what they are up against. But the overwhelming blame has to go to rich owners looking to further fatten their pockets and make even moor and claiming they are looking out for the smaller teams when they are not.

The unreasonable-ness lies with a certain fella from Buffalo who wants even more money than he is currently making.

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Old
10-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #164
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I know right? They can barely afford to feed their dogs, they can't afford another rollback to keep their jobs.
Right. It's only about the money, not at all about being made to take it where the sun doesn't shine because Phoenix and Florida can't get their act together.

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10-08-2012, 09:36 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
I know right? They can barely afford to feed their dogs, they can't afford another rollback to keep their jobs.
And if they do take that rollback, what's to keep it from happening again, five years down the road?

The NHL has some deep-seated problems that aren't going to be solved by cutting players' salaries. If Bettman wants teams in markets like Phoenix and Columbus, he's going to have to expand profit-sharing. If not, they'll keep on locking out the players until they destroy the league.

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10-08-2012, 10:24 PM
  #167
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Highest payroll in the NHL when it was shut down.

What a greed ******* that Jacobs is, how dare he want to keep the money he earns.
I'm certainly not among those who believe Jacobs is the anti-Christ, but spending to the cap seems to me irrelevant when discussing the lockout. Jacobs by all accounts isn't parsimonious with his own team, but as one of the NHL's richest owners with a very profitable team, who is by all accounts a leader of the lockout, who would rather cut players' shares than entertain profit-sharing, let's just say he looks pretty greedy in this situation.

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Old
10-08-2012, 10:47 PM
  #168
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If the players are so worried about profit sharing and being egalitarian maybe the Ovechkins should give millions to the Beagles. The players make alot more profit than the owners in the NHL. They also get a higher % of the revenues than players in more profitable leagues like the NBA and NFL. 15+ owners are losing money and thus saving money by locking the players out under the current revenue breakdown so the players shouldn't be shocked the owners want to lock them out.

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10-09-2012, 01:41 AM
  #169
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if the owners were so worried about player salaries getting out of hand then maybe they shouldn't have been handing out huge contracts THE DAY BEFORE THE LOCKOUT. The owners did this to themselves and I see no reason why the players should give them a do-over on legally binding contracts.

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Old
10-09-2012, 05:34 AM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobster57 View Post
Yeah, when will those highly competitive, best in the world at what they do SOBs come crawling back to give the hard-done-by owners every little thing they want.
Exactly

Unless you know someone who is an NHL player, why should their financial well being matter to you?

IMO, as a fan it is MUCH more important that the league be in good financial standing than the players take a larger share of the revenue.

Unless you want to preach this populist, class warfare matra which seems to be popular amongst the pro players crowd.

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Old
10-09-2012, 05:54 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Exactly

Unless you know someone who is an NHL player, why should their financial well being matter to you?

IMO, as a fan it is MUCH more important that the league be in good financial standing than the players take a larger share of the revenue.

Unless you want to preach this populist, class warfare matra which seems to be popular amongst the pro players crowd.
So the players should stick their neck out on the line for greedy owners who don't know how to run their franchises or league? I'm basically in the middle ground. I want the season to start and them to reach a deal where its a 50/50 share of HRR. Or profits or whatever it needs to be. But at some point also, there needs to be a long process of contracting several teams or putting them into canada where maybe they can turn a buck and we don't have other owners *****ing about revenue sharing.

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Old
10-09-2012, 06:53 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
So the players should stick their neck out on the line for greedy owners who don't know how to run their franchises or league? I'm basically in the middle ground. I want the season to start and them to reach a deal where its a 50/50 share of HRR. Or profits or whatever it needs to be. But at some point also, there needs to be a long process of contracting several teams or putting them into canada where maybe they can turn a buck and we don't have other owners *****ing about revenue sharing.
How can they get to 50-50 (which most reasonable people seem to agree with) if the players refuse to submit another proposal.

This after they refused to negotiate for until all their players were done playing, now said players are all darting to Europe. Plus, they have a proposal done, but the players voted not to submit it. I just don't see how the players are negotiating here.

Lets see how the "solidarity" (snicker) is when the bottom pairing players blow through their escrow money.

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Old
10-09-2012, 06:58 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
How can they get to 50-50 (which most reasonable people seem to agree with) if the players refuse to submit another proposal.

This after they refused to negotiate for until all their players were done playing, now said players are all darting to Europe. I just don't see how the players are negotiating here.
as soon as bergeron left, i knew this season was toast

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10-09-2012, 07:17 AM
  #174
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A streamer on todays CBS TV news says the owners and PA are about to resume negotiations. Substance or oh..hum?

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Old
10-09-2012, 07:23 AM
  #175
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A streamer on todays CBS TV news says the owners and PA are about to resume negotiations. Substance or oh..hum?
Going with the latter of the two unfortunately, probably going to talk about size of the trapezoid

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