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2012 CBA Discussion II (Lockout Talk)

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Old
10-09-2012, 06:22 PM
  #201
RussellmaniaKW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
That's just the thing, though. The revenue-sharing is actually fairly aggressive already. The league's proposal in that respect is generous.

It just isn't enough.

What's needed, is actually something I posted a couple of days back:
do you care to explain how the NHL's current revenue-sharing is aggressive? Everything I've ever read suggests that it is the least aggressive of the 4 major sports.

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10-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Looch View Post
I have a strong feeling this league won't be giving anything away for free

If they do play two, I'm guessing one home and one away. In both cases the home team makes their season ticket holders pay for them.
there is no way they charge for those games and willing to put one of JJ's overpriced Guiness on it

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Old
10-09-2012, 07:22 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
the great Winston Churchill said "fear does the work of reason"

we have not reached the Fearful Point- yet (I'm telliing you its November 12th to 15th) that is the four day period where both sides are going to be very, very concerned this could end badly. They get it done then, they can round everyone up, play two free exhibition games and apologize and pass out some phony baloney something, and open on Black Friday with the Black and Gold putting a beatdown on the New York Rangers.

btw Dom, there is ZERO chance this lasts the entire year- still reminds me of two guys fighting over who gets the biggest piece of cake and can't see them starving to death.
I just think this is too simplistic and not indicative of the problem.

The league got the PA to swallow a salary cap last go-around coupled with a substantial rollback in salaries. Everyone was told that it was what the league needed in order to be successful. Now, the league needs more.

And they genuinely DO need more. You can't have the majority of franchises just on either side of breaking even and say that everything is going fine. It isn't. But here's where we're at.

People assume:

League's Offer.................Center..............Player's Offer....
_______I_________________I__________________I_____ __

When in reality

League's Offer.......................Player's Offer..Where we're at now............Hypothetical Counter-Offer
.................................................. ...............(Center)
______I_________________________I____________I____ __________________I____

It's not a "biggest piece of the pie" situation. The league needs the ability to be profitable. The players need something to compensate for what they have to give up. 50/50 is not the easy solution that everyone thinks it is.

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Old
10-09-2012, 07:33 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
do you care to explain how the NHL's current revenue-sharing is aggressive? Everything I've ever read suggests that it is the least aggressive of the 4 major sports.
The teams that profit make about $256M altogether. The teams that lose money, altogether lose about $118M.

The league has proposed a $190M pool for revenue-sharing. That's aggressive, man. That's a total pool of almost three quarters of the combined profits of the money-making clubs.

Unless I'm off on my numbers... This is in the research I've gathered over the past several weeks.

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10-09-2012, 07:56 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
The teams that profit make about $256M altogether. The teams that lose money, altogether lose about $118M.

The league has proposed a $190M pool for revenue-sharing. That's aggressive, man. That's a total pool of almost three quarters of the combined profits of the money-making clubs.

Unless I'm off on my numbers... This is in the research I've gathered over the past several weeks.
You are correct sir and it could go as high as $200 million while NHLPA has proposed $240 million. What I don't like about it is that under the old plan, teams need to have 80% attendance and be in a market with less then 2.5 million TV's in their local market. Seems to me the teams that are below that need it more, and the max a team can get is $10 million

As for the teams that make up the profit, 40% of that comes from one team - The Leafs

I've been the most optimistic that we play an 82 game schedule. That's gone down the toilet for me. And I expect the NHL will cancel another two weeks this Friday.

Interesting from Dan Boyle:

Quote:
Dominic Tiano ‏@dominictiano
Dan Boyle: I think we have to give back. There are a lot of things that we need to fix, and we want to give back,"

Dominic Tiano ‏@dominictiano
More Boyle: I dont see anything happening for the next couple months. I know thats very pessimistic of me, and I really hope Im wrong.

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10-09-2012, 08:18 PM
  #206
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I can totally understand the players wanting to stop this lockout, gun to their head brand of negotiating that the owners seem to do so easily. A deal will get done at some point and the PA will lose but the question is will the PA and Owners finally be able to break the cycle of this type of negotiation every time the CBA expires. They’re ruining the NHL and may even run it into the ground completely if they can't stop this type of negotiating.

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Old
10-09-2012, 08:31 PM
  #207
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Rob Simpson ‏@simmerpuck
According to source close to ownership, even with a little grandstanding for show, thrown in for another 2 weeks or so, Game On by mid-Nov.

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10-09-2012, 09:48 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Fierce1 View Post
I can totally understand the players wanting to stop this lockout, gun to their head brand of negotiating that the owners seem to do so easily. A deal will get done at some point and the PA will lose but the question is will the PA and Owners finally be able to break the cycle of this type of negotiation every time the CBA expires. They’re ruining the NHL and may even run it into the ground completely if they can't stop this type of negotiating.
There's one way to keep this from happening again for a very long time:................sign a very long contract!

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10-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Rob Simpson ‏@simmerpuck
According to source close to ownership, even with a little grandstanding for show, thrown in for another 2 weeks or so, Game On by mid-Nov.
I just don't see it. Nothing is pointing in that direction right now.

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10-10-2012, 02:31 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looch View Post
I just don't see it. Nothing is pointing in that direction right now.
Agreed. I think its more of a hope thing. Nothing seems to be happening, and there's no rush on either side to get this thing over with.

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Old
10-10-2012, 07:36 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Rob Simpson ‏@simmerpuck
According to source close to ownership, even with a little grandstanding for show, thrown in for another 2 weeks or so, Game On by mid-Nov.
I honestly won't give a **** by then....for me, the damage is done. that said, I highly doubt that we will get any NHL hockey by then. I would bet more on December/January.

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10-10-2012, 10:01 AM
  #212
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Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:05 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th

I sure hope you're right. It feels like they are pretty far apart, but things can change pretty quickly.

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Old
10-10-2012, 12:26 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
You are correct sir and it could go as high as $200 million while NHLPA has proposed $240 million. What I don't like about it is that under the old plan, teams need to have 80% attendance and be in a market with less then 2.5 million TV's in their local market. Seems to me the teams that are below that need it more, and the max a team can get is $10 million

As for the teams that make up the profit, 40% of that comes from one team - The Leafs

I've been the most optimistic that we play an 82 game schedule. That's gone down the toilet for me. And I expect the NHL will cancel another two weeks this Friday.

Interesting from Dan Boyle:
I still hope the NHL is back by Thanksgiving.

I need the games to keep me sane. There is nothing like a good B's game after a bad day at work. Instead of yelling at people who deserve it at work I yell at the games. I could get myself in trouble and it will be the NHL's fault.

I heard our Bergy had 2 golas and 2 assists yesterday....

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10-10-2012, 12:29 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Rob Simpson ‏@simmerpuck
According to source close to ownership, even with a little grandstanding for show, thrown in for another 2 weeks or so, Game On by mid-Nov.
I miss Rob.

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Old
10-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th
I hope it gets resolved in Nov but would rather they have less games. Trying to cram in 82 games isn't good for the players or the fans.

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Old
10-10-2012, 12:58 PM
  #217
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Edit: Oh darn... wrong thread. This was meant for the lounge. Apologies.

Though.... I guess it did relate to the topic at hand.

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Old
10-10-2012, 01:09 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th
im asking for a full refund if that happens.
we'd be looking at like 4 home games a week.
Id probably be able to only make 10 games.

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Old
10-10-2012, 03:39 PM
  #219
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im asking for a full refund if that happens.
we'd be looking at like 4 home games a week.
Id probably be able to only make 10 games.
Theoretically, they could make up the lost games by canceling the All-Star break, and possibly just extending the season by a week or two. Little cramming would be needed.

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Old
10-10-2012, 04:16 PM
  #220
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Theoretically, they could make up the lost games by canceling the All-Star break, and possibly just extending the season by a week or two. Little cramming would be needed.
I wonder if they could schedule day/night doubleheaders to make up the lost games or would the players be a little unhappy about that ?

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:01 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th
I put it out there a week ago. NHL has 6 different schedules, with at least two being full 82 games

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10-11-2012, 12:15 AM
  #222
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how come no one can understand the differnce revenue and profit for the owners?

reveue means profit for the players NOT for the owners.

When the league says they have lost 250 million revenue so far... this doesnt mean they lost 250 million dollars cause 57% was due the players and most {or all the rest was due to other expenses running the league in this slow time}

the players have lost 57% of that 250 million {or whatever the new cba says} and will never recover that money. I know they are holding out so not to get screwed on a deal that costs them even more long term... but revenue means profit only for the players, NOT the owners

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Old
10-11-2012, 02:47 AM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
Was with two buddies of mine within past 24 hours- one is an agent with multiple NHL players and the others kid plays in the NHL

The agent obviously is not happy since he doesn't get paid if his players don't and thinks this could go the distance

my bud who's kid plays and imo has much more inside knowledge than the average dad for a number of reasons told me he hears the NHL has an 82 game schedule in place if they can get this resolved in November (this may be common knowledge but I didn't hear it so apologizies if its out there)

still think it gets resolved Nov 12-15th
maybe i'm being naive, but i agree. i think we are watching the NHL before Thanksgiving.

this lockout isn't like the last one. this one is more simple no matter what the pessimists want to say. i feel like both sides are going to cave and cave soon. both sides are going to say just get a deal done as more games are cancelled and nobody is making money. there's ways these guys, who are all bright, can split this money up and make everyone relatively happy if they stop being stubborn and start the real negotiations.

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Old
10-11-2012, 08:33 PM
  #224
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I swear I am not exaggerating this.

I hate Thursday Night Football. It feels weird. I just hate these Thursday games and barely ever watch, even though I watch all day Sunday and on Monday.

Now, with this stupid ****ing lockout I actually had this thought tonight: "Oh, nice, there's a football game on."

GOOD JOB NHL!

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Old
10-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #225
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I swear I am not exaggerating this.

I hate Thursday Night Football. It feels weird. I just hate these Thursday games and barely ever watch, even though I watch all day Sunday and on Monday.

Now, with this stupid ****ing lockout I actually had this thought tonight: "Oh, nice, there's a football game on."

GOOD JOB NHL!
I've been watching the pre-game for the VP debate on CNN.








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