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2012 Redskins Thread III (It's RGIII's Playground)

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Old
12-18-2012, 07:39 AM
  #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall* View Post
The praise of Kyle Shannahan is asinine (referring to Post columns)

What he's doing really well is getting his once-of-a-lifetime quarterback killed.

Tell lil' Kyle to run out in traffic, then come back and realize what an asset a franchise quarterback.

Been years since this team has had this kind of face/name/talent, and all Kyle Shannahan can do is **** it up.
Ummm..yeah...

Skins will be lucky to hold onto Kyle this offseason as chances are he will garner a ton of interest around the league.

To coach up and scheme for 2 rookie QBs who look awfully impressive?? I have not seen anything like this.

Both our coordinators completely baffled the Browns this past weekend and were a large part of the reason we won.

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12-18-2012, 08:10 AM
  #777
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Nobody is talking about hiring Kyle Shannahan.

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12-18-2012, 08:32 AM
  #778
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I think Mike is slowly rolling out the red carpet for Kyle to be head coach here. While an offer tough to refuse may be handed to Kyle, Snyder has all the resources to match that offer. He doesn't know any better from a football sense, he learned to just sign checks.

But last week in the first quarter, running NO play action nor deception to help Cousins in his first game, I thought Kyle was an absolute idiot. Sure enough Cousins sitting the pocket started getting hit, threw an INT, and fumbled - 1 for 6. FINALLY, Kyle adjusted to the Rex bootleg rum running play action deceptive offense, and we steam rolled the hapless browns. Besides maybe to throw off the Browns (who were already thrown off hearing Cousins was starting the night before), I have no idea why he opened with such a vanilla offense. Some fans myself included started wondering if we were going to see Rex.

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12-18-2012, 08:45 AM
  #779
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Doc on the radio was saying Kyle was basically rope-a-doping the Browns with his playcalls in the first few series.

Either way, what they later did started working very well.

As far as Mike showcasing Cousins, I don't buy that. Its do or die for this team right now and he wouldn't risk the chances of this team to get a win against the Browns, no matter how inept that team is.

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12-18-2012, 08:46 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Can you imagine the uproar if our king Ovi got sat in a game 5 because he has an LCL1, suspected to get an audition for a 2nd round draft pick, that many have speculated that George wants to parlay into a better pick or player?

Sorry, doctors orders, even though it's on the internets that an LCL1 allows for normal activities. You bring your kids out and see Ovi skating around Kettler at full speed bat out of hell, and pissed off to no end, and pronouncing himself healthy to the media.

That's pretty much were we were with RG3. He is footballs Ovechkin, and the NFL regular season in December, is close to the first round of the NHL playoffs.

Mike Shanahan is one tough deceptive SOB. No pun intended.
I bolded what I think might be the most important aspect. Normal activities. I don't know if one can classify what RG3 does as normal activity. While he was "Clearly not at risk for re-injury" in pregame warmups, the same might not have held true at game speed while making cuts trying to dodge defenders and taking the kind of shots he's been taking. Putting him out there would have been very short-sighted in my book. Risking a longer-term injury playing against a lackluster Browns squad when the backup looked perfectly capable the week before (albeit in a very short viewing) doesn't pass the risk/reward test to me.

What is the end game in that situation? I know the Giants showed that anything is possible once you get to the playoffs, but is the Redskins squad as currently constructed likely to pull off something similar?

Coaches in the league, when left to their own devices, almost always do what gives them the best shot of winning in the here and now. Their livelihood depends on it. You get measured by Ws and Ls. I seriously doubt Shanahan would have held him out just for the chance of moving up a round or picking up an extra draft pick in 2 years. He might very well be out on the street by then. If it was the owner's call, then calling Shanahan one tough deceptive SOB, while possibly true, would be completely irrelevant in this situation.

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12-18-2012, 09:15 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Nobody is talking about hiring Kyle Shannahan.
You mean outside of the NFL Network, ESPN and sportstalk 910 here in Richmond? He is a hot coaching commodity. Now are the teams themselves doing the talking? No I don't think they would but I'm sure they are thinking about it. Right now its just in the realm of the talking heads.

Ever since Gruden was hired by the Raiders it seems teams are more than willing to get the next young hot coordinator a shot as a HC.

Clearly its not as far fetched as you would think. He is doing a great job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Doc on the radio was saying Kyle was basically rope-a-doping the Browns with his playcalls in the first few series.
In hindsight it sure looked like they were setting the Browns up.

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12-18-2012, 09:25 AM
  #782
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I took a peek at the Browns, Chiefs, Bills message board the last few days. Lots of fans there clamoring for Kyle Shanahan.

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12-18-2012, 10:33 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Doc on the radio was saying Kyle was basically rope-a-doping the Browns with his playcalls in the first few series.

Either way, what they later did started working very well.

As far as Mike showcasing Cousins, I don't buy that. Its do or die for this team right now and he wouldn't risk the chances of this team to get a win against the Browns, no matter how inept that team is.
I thought the Browns were already rope a doped finding out they had Cousins at the last minute! While I do think their was a reason for it, but I think even RG3 would struggle in that same offense. Look at Peyton Manning making a living off of play action.

It just seemed a bit extreme for Cousins in his first start on the road against a respectable front.

While it worked in the end, its tough to think we would have lost had Kyle gone bootleg and play action in the 1st quarter. Maybe we wouldn't have been losing at half time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I bolded what I think might be the most important aspect. Normal activities.....
All good points, but in the end, I feel like Mike has the teams long term interests in mind, which includes showcasing Cousins, exactly what was speculated by so many upon him being drafted. Does he happen to have a son that he probably thinks its important to look past this year for, as well?

He is our GM after all. Its like GMGM behind the bench, he is running the entire show. As a coach, he can tell the team doctors to say to rest RG3. He is the master of deception, and I put nothing past him. He is a conniving SOB that was obsessed with the game in his year off, and now has his sons interests in mind too.

Back to RG3, do you really think those microfibers healed significantly to him being an unquestioned starter this week? Those fibers take anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months to heal fully, so I doubt he has healed significantly. One is guessing to say Sunday he was at risk, but this sunday, oh. he is not. What risk percentage change was there; I say its closer to infinitesimal than significant. Its an extremely dangerous sport. Lets say the risk of injury was higher, to play along. his chance of injury jumped from what, say 15% to 15.2%?

RG3 said he was fine and I trust his opinion on how his knee is, over a paid Shanny minion.

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12-18-2012, 10:54 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
All good points, but in the end, I feel like Mike has the teams long term interests in mind, which includes showcasing Cousins, exactly what was speculated by so many upon him being drafted. Does he happen to have a son that he probably thinks its important to look past this year for, as well?

He is our GM after all. Its like GMGM behind the bench, he is running the entire show. As a coach, he can tell the team doctors to say to rest RG3. He is the master of deception, and I put nothing past him. He is a conniving SOB that was obsessed with the game in his year off, and now has his sons interests in mind too.

Back to RG3, do you really think those microfibers healed significantly to him being an unquestioned starter this week? Those fibers take anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months to heal fully, so I doubt he has healed significantly. One is guessing to say Sunday he was at risk, but this sunday, oh. he is not. What risk percentage change was there; I say its closer to infinitesimal than significant. Its an extremely dangerous sport. Lets say the risk of injury was higher, to play along. his chance of injury jumped from what, say 15% to 15.2%?

He said he was fine and I trust RG3's opinion on how his knee is, over a paid Shanny minion.
Those are all fair points as well. The angle regarding Shanahan looking out for his son definitely has some merit to me.

Regarding drafting Cousins with the possibility of showcasing him, that makes about zero sense to me. If that was their mindset, they pretty much took it as a likelihood that RG3 would get hurt. If they felt he was likely to get hurt, do they think he'll magically be resistant to injury after they trade away Cousins? Would it have made more sense to draft an OL to help protect RG3 so they wouldn't need to draft a second QB?

Regarding the injury, I have read nothing about the severity and effects, outside of what has been posted here. I don't pretend to know how it is evaluated, who makes the call, etc. As an outside observer, I would trust the medical staff to make a truthful evaluation and let the coaching decide the best course of action. Perhaps they took the input from the medical staff, looked at the matchup with the Browns and decided to hold him out. Maybe the answer would have been different had they been facing the Giants.

As they get nearer the playoffs and the playoff picture starts to get a little clearer, perhaps the risk/reward ratio changes enough to put him out there. A 15% chance of reinjury while you're a game back and facing a lackluster Browns squad might bring you to one conclusion. A 15.2% chance of reinjury but being atop the division and facing the Eagles might yield a different answer.

As for RG3 proclaiming his knee to be fully healthy, I always take what an athlete says with a grain of salt. They're competitive by nature and I've rarely seen cases where one says something that will reduce their chances of playing.

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Old
12-18-2012, 11:25 AM
  #785
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I apologize. Mike and Kyle know what they're doing. They took long enough. They screwed some things up, but they're good football guys who are fixing what was a disaster of a franchise when they got it.

Props to Snyder as well for stepping back as well and letting it happen. And for Bruce Allen for drinking mint juleps and pushing tickets.

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12-18-2012, 12:47 PM
  #786
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I chalk up the first couple of series to going vanilla to let Cousins settle in and to feel out how the Browns would play the Skins with Griffin not in the lineup. After that I saw the exact same offense that Griffin runs, just not out of the pistol formation and no designed read option plays. Same running plays and same play action pass plays that have been wide open all season.

I don't think Baby Shanny will go anywhere. The aura of nepotisim will keep him with the Skins until Daddy retires. But if Baby Shanny does get hired as a HC I fully expect the team to hire him to poney up some picks for Cousins as well. Bet on that.

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12-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I apologize. Mike and Kyle know what they're doing. They took long enough. They screwed some things up, but they're good football guys who are fixing what was a disaster of a franchise when they got it.

Props to Snyder as well for stepping back as well and letting it happen. And for Bruce Allen for drinking mint juleps and pushing tickets.
No reason to apologize. Being a fan of a team in the middle of a significant roster rebuild is tough. A lot of questions, doubt and frustrastions come to the surface. But its going threw crap like that that makes watching a rebuilt Skins team fight for a Division crown all the more sweet. Sit back and enjoy it.

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12-18-2012, 01:58 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I am still surprised we did not play RG3 who not only pronounced himself ready to go, but looked as healthy as can be running circles around the field in pregame. Clearly not at risk for re-injury.

The micro fibers torn in an LCL1 take about 3 weeks to 3 months to heal but allows full function throughout, so to me, it was all about pain tolerance. We heard now that 2 doctors did not clear him last week. I didn't know Mike was a doctor.

I think Mike was looking for any window at all to showcase Cousins to trade him sooner, than later.

Sonny asked 3 yesterday if he would be healthy for the Eagles game, and RG3 "I am healthy now" - keeping the pressure on the doctor to end the auditioning of Cousins. I think Mike wants a 1st back.

Shanahan would have been under the gun and the fans in meltdown if Cousins lost week, crushing our playoff hopes.

The master of the smoke and mirrors pulled it off. Very impressive. But I think it crushed my rookie of the year bet on RG3, who could have racked up some impressive stats on the lowly browns. While Wilson racked up 43 fantasy points on my bench, as I lost my playoff game.
I'm not surprised at all honestly. The team has already exceeded expectations for the year and they're paper thin depth-wise. I don't think the coaching staff expects much if we make the playoffs. I'm glad they had the balls to sit him.

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12-18-2012, 01:59 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Nobody is talking about hiring Kyle Shannahan.
Nobody is talking about hiring anyone at this point of the year.

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12-18-2012, 04:39 PM
  #790
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wow, Sanchez w/ 50 turnovers over the last 2 years

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12-18-2012, 05:31 PM
  #791
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wow, Sanchez w/ 50 turnovers over the last 2 years
If I remember correctly Uncle Vinny was trying to trade up to draft that guy. Same with trying to trade for Jay Cutler. Glad that didn't work out, both times.

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12-19-2012, 06:39 AM
  #792
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I'm not surprised at all honestly. The team has already exceeded expectations for the year and they're paper thin depth-wise. I don't think the coaching staff expects much if we make the playoffs. I'm glad they had the balls to sit him.
Would you have been glad if Cousins showed deer in the headlights and we lost, while RG3 was doing full sprints around the field?

I think Mike rolled the dice and hit the trifecta. Lets go to the bullet points.
  • We won a critical late season game
  • Ft. Kirk Cousins got critical experience and pumped up his value. I think will be traded at some point. No great starter remains a backup forever.
  • RG3 got rest, if needed.
At the risk of rust, upon his return. I think he needs to get back in this week. Otherwise, he is trotting out a little rusty for Dallas, behind a revamped OL.

Its along the lines of Bruce sitting Ovi late in that Pens playoff series game, I think Ovi had an ailing knee, yet you see Ovi in pregame at full speed. Young face of the franchise, same risk. I bet you wanted Ovi out there.

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12-19-2012, 07:33 AM
  #793
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Nobody is talking about hiring anyone at this point of the year.
Certainly not publically (well outside of the leaked info about Norv) I agree...

Fact is that the Chargers, Browns, Eagles, perhaps KC and a few others are already set on finding a new coach most likely. To think they are not preparing for that is naive.

We know there will be a half dozen coaches fired. Thats the case almost every year. These teams, I assure everyone, are already putting a great deal of thought on who they should bring aboard next.

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12-19-2012, 10:11 AM
  #794
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Certainly not publically (well outside of the leaked info about Norv) I agree...

Fact is that the Chargers, Browns, Eagles, perhaps KC and a few others are already set on finding a new coach most likely. To think they are not preparing for that is naive.

We know there will be a half dozen coaches fired. Thats the case almost every year. These teams, I assure everyone, are already putting a great deal of thought on who they should bring aboard next.
hard to see kyle leaving mikes side to take another head coach job but anything is possible

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12-19-2012, 10:27 AM
  #795
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Philadelphia sports media spends all day talking about who is going to be the next Eagles' head coach. Kyle's name hasn't come up once that I've heard.

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12-19-2012, 12:48 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
hard to see kyle leaving mikes side to take another head coach job but anything is possible
I could totally see that being the case but can't be sure. I don't know Kyle's aspirations or whether or not he can't wait to get out from under the shadow of his dad. It would have to be the right situation for sure.

But the choices out there for teams are either:

1) Hire a retread coach that got fired somewhere else. Well the problem is the good ones (Gruden and Cohwer) have cushy jobs and will only leave for the perfect situation if that and will want serious $$$ and power. Jim Fassel is out there and Norv will be too. I don't think teams are lining up for those type of guys personally.

2) Hire a college coach that has success at that level. But there is no guarantee that success will translate at the NFL level because they have to deal with an entire different mindset of player. Spurrier and guys like him ...well you never know how that will work out. Being a great college coach (Lou Holtz) doesn't mean you will have success at the pros. These guys too will want serious $$$ if you want someone high profile.

3) Hire a young successful coordinator that is rising in stock. It definitely has its pitfalls like the others but in this case these types are very hungry for the opportunity and won't require nearly as much $$$ as 1 and 2 above.

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12-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #797
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Just can't imagine KSI leaving after getting such a weapon in RGIII.

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12-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #798
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1) Hire a retread coach that got fired somewhere else. Well the problem is the good ones (Gruden and Cohwer) have cushy jobs and will only leave for the perfect situation if that and will want serious $$$ and power. Jim Fassel is out there and Norv will be too. I don't think teams are lining up for those type of guys personally.
There are four legitimate, title-winning "retreads" out there in Gruden, Cowher, Billick, and Dungy. I doubt Dungy comes back, but I could certainly see Cowher or Billick jumping back into coaching.

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12-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #799
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There are four legitimate, title-winning "retreads" out there in Gruden, Cowher, Billick, and Dungy. I doubt Dungy comes back, but I could certainly see Cowher or Billick jumping back into coaching.
I know Billick would come back but not sure anyone wants him to be honest.

I have heard reports about teams every offseason trying to lure Gruden and Cowher out to coach again but it seems they are more than comfortable being analysts. Not sure about Dungy but he walked away for a reason and he seems like a man of great conviction so I sense he won't go back.

Either way there will be lots of openings this offseason as always and coordinators that raise eyebrows will get looks for sure.

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12-19-2012, 02:17 PM
  #800
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Would you have been glad if Cousins showed deer in the headlights and we lost, while RG3 was doing full sprints around the field?

I think Mike rolled the dice and hit the trifecta. Lets go to the bullet points.
  • We won a critical late season game
  • Ft. Kirk Cousins got critical experience and pumped up his value. I think will be traded at some point. No great starter remains a backup forever.
  • RG3 got rest, if needed.
At the risk of rust, upon his return. I think he needs to get back in this week. Otherwise, he is trotting out a little rusty for Dallas, behind a revamped OL.

Its along the lines of Bruce sitting Ovi late in that Pens playoff series game, I think Ovi had an ailing knee, yet you see Ovi in pregame at full speed. Young face of the franchise, same risk. I bet you wanted Ovi out there.
Glad we lost? Is that a rhetorical question? Look, I have little faith that this is a serious contender in the playoffs this season. It's likely one and done, so I would have sat RG3 if it meant a loss, perhaps even the division if it was the right thing to do for his health longterm. I care more about him winning us 3 SuperBowls over his hopefully long and storied career, not making the 1st round of the playoffs his rookie year.

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