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Could Replacement Players Break the NHLPA?

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:27 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by who_me? View Post
Union thugs would break the kneecaps of "scabs". True story.
Good. All scabs deserve a good beating. I ****ing hate Scabs and would refuse to watch it in principle.

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Even further, the ownership group isn't even unanimous on the idea of the new CBA having all their provisions, many owners want the season to start, but everything is being clamped down by the Sunbelt Teams and a few extremely greedy ownership groups like the Boston Bruins.
If this is true, Bettman needs to "disappear". If 19 or 20 teams want to go, Bettman has no right to use his leverage to let the rest of the owners hold the league hostage. I doubt it's true though, because if a majority were against Bettman, there'd have been a coup a long time ago and they'd not be afraid to speak out.

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11-16-2012, 11:57 AM
  #102
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Don't every AHL player somehow aim to move on to the NHL ?

Those I guess would be the closest scabs the NHL could hire, but if you aim to eventually get to the NHL, I don't see it as a good move to go and screw your potentially future teammates.

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11-16-2012, 12:37 PM
  #103
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As much as I love the Habs, if the product on the ice sucks why would I watch? You're initially attracted to the game because of the quality of the players. I'm surprised anyone would say they'd be for replacement players. Can't you watch the AHL as a "replacement" for your NHL experience?

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11-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
As much as I love the Habs, if the product on the ice sucks why would I watch? You're initially attracted to the game because of the quality of the players. I'm surprised anyone would say they'd be for replacement players. Can't you watch the AHL as a "replacement" for your NHL experience?
For a time yes... I, for one, believe it is relatively on par with NHL hockey. It's probably better than most college leagues... The only other viable competition to the NHL is Junior leagues, which is really like watching AHL anyway.

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11-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
As much as I love the Habs, if the product on the ice sucks why would I watch? You're initially attracted to the game because of the quality of the players. I'm surprised anyone would say they'd be for replacement players. Can't you watch the AHL as a "replacement" for your NHL experience?
Theoretically yes, but it's much more quite difficult in practice, I've found. Few AHL-or-similar-league games are televised nationally even without the NHL there to take up those time-slots, and the AHL package you can buy through certain cable providers or the internet streams you can occasionally find has mediocre to extremely poor coverage and is equally as expensive as NHL Center Ice. Watching live (edit - that is, in person, at the rink) is the only viable option, and that isn't available to everyone depending on where you live, obviously.

To most people, watching "scabs" would imply a league with NHL quality coverage but poorer players, I think. Certainly to me, anyway.


Last edited by OneMoreAstronaut: 11-16-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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11-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #106
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No they could not. Once the best players in the world are no longer employed by the NHL the NHL is toast. Who would go watch it?

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11-16-2012, 01:17 PM
  #107
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I'd watch on TV. It would be entertainment for sure.
Not sure about paying for a ticket though.

And as many said, you'd have good talent still, not great but good.
You'd see guys coming over from Euro leagues etc. that are still unsigned, free agents here, and then as others said guys from minor leagues here. People pay money for minor league tickets so there is a desire to watch.

At some point it becomes more about the game and less about the players. There were players in the 80's / 90's that wouldn't even sniff the ice in this day and age in the NHL. And it was some of the most entertaining hockey of my lifetime.

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11-16-2012, 01:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by PenguinPower420 View Post
Good. All scabs deserve a good beating. I ****ing hate Scabs
How about the scabs that are playing in Europe right now? I'm sure that players that are out of a job right now because of them agree with you.

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11-16-2012, 01:38 PM
  #109
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Who would be the "Rudy" or "Falco" of the NHL replacement players?

Would be interesting to see

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11-16-2012, 01:39 PM
  #110
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How about the scabs that are playing in Europe right now? I'm sure that players that are out of a job right now because of them agree with you.
I wan't aware those leagues had unions...

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11-16-2012, 01:43 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
How about the scabs that are playing in Europe right now? I'm sure that players that are out of a job right now because of them agree with you.
Let's get our slurs straight.

Scabs are workers who cross a striking union's picket line. Are the Euros on strike? No. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are not scabs.

Carpetbaggers are opportunistic foreigners who arrive to meddle in local business for their own gain, often displacing locals. The pejorative dates back the the US post Civil War era and described Northerners who went South to profit. Their suitcases were often made of sewn carpet (thus the term).

Are NHLers displacing Euro players in the Euro leagues? Absolutely. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are carpetbaggers.

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11-16-2012, 01:49 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
Let's get our slurs straight.

Scabs are workers who cross a striking union's picket line. Are the Euros on strike? No. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are not scabs.

Carpetbaggers are opportunistic foreigners who arrive to meddle in local business for their own gain, often displacing locals. The pejorative dates back the the US post Civil War era and described Northerners who went South to profit. Their suitcases were often made of sewn carpet (thus the term).

Are NHLers displacing Euro players in the Euro leagues? Absolutely. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are carpetbaggers.
Ah, thanks. I realize I was using poetic license (since slurs are always open to alteration over time), but I wasn’t aware that there was already an apt description.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:15 PM
  #113
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I would watch for the fact that I am curious.

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11-16-2012, 04:26 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by who_me? View Post
Union thugs would break the kneecaps of "scabs". True story.
On ice, that would be a major penalty. Off the ice, it would be a criminal assault. I'm quite sure the police would handle it.

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11-16-2012, 04:42 PM
  #115
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I would watch replacement players. I'm a Devils fan first and foremost, so I don't care who's in that jersey as long as its a Devil's jersey.

If we take NJ as an example, I personally think there would be very exciting hockey to watch with the likes of Henrique, Larsson and Josefsson along with perhaps a few picket-line crossers and perhaps some Euro or KHL signings. You have to remember, NHL players don't appear out of thin air, and all players played in some league such as the ECHL, Euro, AHL, junior etc before the NHL.

The difference in level of quality isn't that large and eventually players making the jump would grow spectacularly. Just use Henrique as an example. One minute he's a 2nd class citizen, and AHLer, the next minute he's blowing away top NHLers such as Parise & Co.

Scabs would eventually be on par with NHL play & the lower leagues would fill up accordingly with new prospects.

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11-25-2012, 08:52 AM
  #116
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The longer this drags on the more appealing the idea of replacement players becomes.

Everytime I hear both sides squabble in public, the more I want to watch a league where I pay just $20 a ticket to watch humble players who would probably be more entertaining as the NHL currently is, in terms of physical play and goals scored.

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11-25-2012, 09:10 AM
  #117
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The NHL should be worried about a replacement league usurping them, and not wondering about replacement players. The new league would become the standard, and the one that the Stanley Cup would be awarded to.

Bye Bye NHL - you were great once but you're now run by moronic dinosaurs - who, for the most part, don't give two ***** about hockey.

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11-25-2012, 09:21 AM
  #118
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The NHL should be worried about a replacement league usurping them, and not wondering about replacement players. The new league would become the standard, and the one that the Stanley Cup would be awarded to.

Bye Bye NHL - you were great once but you're now run by moronic dinosaurs - who, for the most part, don't give two ***** about hockey.


Very unlikely.

You will have to find new owners, new arena deals, new sponsors and new tv deals and the players know they couldn't make as much as a whole in any other league.

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11-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #119
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Ok so I've been curious about replacing the NHLPA with PHPA ?http://www.phpa.com/en/content/home/index/

I found unions can be replaced in Canada.
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The fact is that union members have the right to boot out one union and bring in another. That right exists in the laws governing labour relations from one end of our country to the other. Union members can and do change unions. The problem is that the leaders of the mainstream labour movement and its unions don't like it when this happens and so they try to discourage it by agreeing to "no raiding" rules among themselves and by making members feel guilty - like they're letting the "team" down - about contemplating such a thing.

Considering that in our free and democratic society restrictions on liberties are supposed to be kept to a minimum, individuals are free to get out of all kinds of oppressive circumstances (you can get out of a bad marriage, you can leave an unhealthy home environment, you can get out of debt, heck, you can even get out of jail); it seems quite incomprehensible that you can't or shouldn't say "so long" to a bargaining agent that you no longer have any confidence in and replace it with a union of your choice.
http://www.m-f-d.org/article/toolkit/hnnf9h0hwv3.php

And the U.S.?
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If you want to switch unions, it is considered a decertification of your union and at the same time a certification of the new union. The process is the same as how you win a union. Every law which talks about how different groups of workers build a union has the same process for workers to get rid of their union and certify another one.
http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=255

So if they decertify the NHLPA? A group of players could try bringing in another union.

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11-25-2012, 01:58 PM
  #120
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Decertification and certification are majority votes. If a minority of players decide to be replacement players, perhaps the majority decide to decertify?

They could bring in a new union, if a majority voted to do it again. But perhaps your premise is that a majority of players arent driving the bus for the PA right now. I'd suggest that's probably wishful thinking.

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11-25-2012, 03:51 PM
  #121
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Cut tickets prices in half....drop the salary cap by 75% ....bring up the AHL players and Europeans to fill team rosters and break the NHLPA as some Players would cross the pickets line for a pay cheque......the poor AHL would scramble next year but they are pretty much owned by the NHL so they will have to figure it out lol

I would go watch a lesser product as long as ticket prices reflect the drop in quality

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11-26-2012, 01:01 AM
  #122
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I am pro owner, but I would be very against this. Both ethically, but you can't call yourself the best league in the world of you don't have the best players. Furthermore, the level of play would be so poor that the owners would actually weaken their position.

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11-26-2012, 02:10 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
Let's get our slurs straight.

Scabs are workers who cross a striking union's picket line. Are the Euros on strike? No. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are not scabs.

Carpetbaggers are opportunistic foreigners who arrive to meddle in local business for their own gain, often displacing locals. The pejorative dates back the the US post Civil War era and described Northerners who went South to profit. Their suitcases were often made of sewn carpet (thus the term).

Are NHLers displacing Euro players in the Euro leagues? Absolutely. Ergo, NHLers playing in Europe are carpetbaggers.
Where are these nhlpa picket lines? Are they standing around burning barrels trying to keep warm while fighting the good fight in front of arena's across NA? Seems to me many of them are displacing other players in other leagues, AHL, ECHL, KHL, other European leagues, etc.

Isnt it hypocritical to call replacement players "scabs" when the players they are replacing are "scabs" or "carpet baggers" themselves.

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11-26-2012, 02:24 AM
  #124
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owners charging a hundred bucks or more to watch beer league players? yeah im going to have to say no. not in a million years.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 11-26-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: charging typo
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11-26-2012, 08:42 AM
  #125
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In my estimation, a fair deal would involve reducing the HRR
55-54-53-52-51-50-50
Plus some serious revenue sharing.
PLUS give the players a meaningful voice at the table on team locations..
I don't think those numbers are realistic based on the loses the franchises take in each year. Finding a location takes a lot of business understanding... Something the players don't have since... They play hockey. If they were besiness men they would be in business. Not one owner will want to here what the players have to say on where HIS business is going to be located.

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Is that going to save Phx? Probably not.
But if the league were to grow 7 percent... and the players share is 55 percent instead of 57 percent

That's revenue of 3.5Billion ... 2 percent of that is 70Million... IMO, 1/2 of that 70M should go to the so-called small market teams via revenue sharing.
If 7%... What if 2% or -5%... etc.

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Do that again the next year.. revenue at 7 percent is now 3.8B
a 1 percent drop in hrr is 38 Million ... 19M goes to revenue sharing....
Now you're at 54M more in revenue sharing then right now.
Next year is 4Billion with 7 percent growth. Player share falls another percent. 40 million. Half goes to revenue sharing... that's 20M. Now you're at 74Million extra in revenue sharing

Assuming 7 percent growth (which may not be that crazy)... you could be talking about an additional 125M a year in revenue sharing. The owners get the players down to 50-50 within 5 years. The players have no instant rollbacks. Players get more say in important revenue decisions.
Win-Win-Win-Win
That is your opinion. Your vision seems very pro-player IMO. I have suggested a pro-owner deal in the creative solution thread. When you read it, you will feel it is loopsided and the players get ****ed. Well... That is how I feel when I read your loopsided offer.

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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post

It's not going to be an instant panacea.

In any industry, there are going to be businesses/franchises etc that take longer to grow -- even if they are well managed... And I don't think Phx can claim to be well managed.
PHO is part of a business deal that helped the NHL close the bigest TV deal ever for hockey. Whats your point??

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