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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

LD Haydn Fleury - Red Deer Rebels, WHL (2014, 7th, CAR)

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Old
02-12-2014, 10:23 PM
  #26
tony d
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Kid looks like he's going to be a good one for a long time, whoever drafts him is going to get a very good defenseman.

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02-13-2014, 12:01 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dawgweed View Post
Agree with most of this post except the skating. He finished far down in the prospects skating evaluations.
Those drills werent the best. He is a very smooth skater that has a unique level of skating ability for a player his age and size. Doesn't turn 18 until july. But I definitely expect him to finish higher than he did in the on-ice fitness testing.

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02-13-2014, 12:33 PM
  #28
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Those drills werent the best. He is a very smooth skater that has a unique level of skating ability for a player his age and size. Doesn't turn 18 until july. But I definitely expect him to finish higher than he did in the on-ice fitness testing.
Situational skating tells you more than a drill. It's the thinking that is involved when defending attackers on the rush that I've noticed his skating shine.

He's a very good skater.

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02-13-2014, 01:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Situational skating tells you more than a drill. It's the thinking that is involved when defending attackers on the rush that I've noticed his skating shine.

He's a very good skater.
That's what I said, but I still expected him to finish better than 9/12 of defenseman.

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02-13-2014, 02:44 PM
  #30
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That's what I said, but I still expected him to finish better than 9/12 of defenseman.
I was agreeing with you.

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03-30-2014, 03:17 AM
  #31
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I think I cooled on him a bit as the season went on after heaping praise in the early stages of the season. I don't know if the high, high-end upside is there because of his hockey sense. He has unbelievable physical tools - athleticism, speed, agility, ability to carry the puck while skating with it. But I lean more towards him being a reactor to the game rather than a guy who will control the game. I think that keeps him out of having the potential to be a first pairing d-man at the next level. He can be extremely fun to watch at the junior level though.

I still think Fleury can become a good, solid first-round pick somewhere in the mid to late first-round. He absolutely can become a valuable top 4 d-man in the National Hockey League I think. The draft really lacks d-men with first pairing potential after Ekblad, they all have their warts to be sure, but I think I gamble with a DeAngelo or Honka before I go for Fleury.

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03-30-2014, 06:22 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by puckfan13 View Post
I think I cooled on him a bit as the season went on after heaping praise in the early stages of the season. I don't know if the high, high-end upside is there because of his hockey sense. He has unbelievable physical tools - athleticism, speed, agility, ability to carry the puck while skating with it. But I lean more towards him being a reactor to the game rather than a guy who will control the game. I think that keeps him out of having the potential to be a first pairing d-man at the next level. He can be extremely fun to watch at the junior level though.

I still think Fleury can become a good, solid first-round pick somewhere in the mid to late first-round. He absolutely can become a valuable top 4 d-man in the National Hockey League I think. The draft really lacks d-men with first pairing potential after Ekblad, they all have their warts to be sure, but I think I gamble with a DeAngelo or Honka before I go for Fleury.

I don't know much about him to be honest. But I agree this draft is a weak one for top pairing dmen. I could see a team taking him in the top 10 simply for need.

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03-30-2014, 10:05 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckfan13 View Post
I think I cooled on him a bit as the season went on after heaping praise in the early stages of the season. I don't know if the high, high-end upside is there because of his hockey sense. He has unbelievable physical tools - athleticism, speed, agility, ability to carry the puck while skating with it. But I lean more towards him being a reactor to the game rather than a guy who will control the game. I think that keeps him out of having the potential to be a first pairing d-man at the next level. He can be extremely fun to watch at the junior level though.

I still think Fleury can become a good, solid first-round pick somewhere in the mid to late first-round. He absolutely can become a valuable top 4 d-man in the National Hockey League I think. The draft really lacks d-men with first pairing potential after Ekblad, they all have their warts to be sure, but I think I gamble with a DeAngelo or Honka before I go for Fleury.
He has WAY too many red flags to be even in the first round, I doubt I would touch him even with a second rounder unless you think your coaching can change his anger problems.

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03-30-2014, 11:26 AM
  #34
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He has WAY too many red flags to be even in the first round, I doubt I would touch him even with a second rounder unless you think your coaching can change his anger problems.
That is a bit of a controversial opinion of mine sure. But I think this draft lacks the top-end skill and that you have to look at DeAngelo's overwhelming talent instead and top pair potential and not get bogged down by his character concerns. He is a kid from Philly playing in small-town Canada, bit of a cultural/personality difference between him and his teammates perhaps, love his passion and think that can be channelled. Just my opinion, could be wrong, but this is a Fleury thread not a DeAngelo thread.

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03-30-2014, 11:34 AM
  #35
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I don't know much about him to be honest. But I agree this draft is a weak one for top pairing dmen. I could see a team taking him in the top 10 simply for need.
The assumption is that predraft rankings and scouting can recognize with clarity future top pair defensemen. The reality is drafting top pair defenseman is a crap shoot. Besides the occasional Doughty and piertrangelo, most are not thought of a 1st pair guys when they are picked and the ones that are, like Coburn, Johnson, and bogosian, don't make it.

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03-30-2014, 11:51 AM
  #36
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I would be surprised if he isn't taken within the first 12 picks. He is so smooth and continued to improve in all areas throughout the season. He has moments where you wonder about his hockey sense, or physicality, but those moments are rare and correctable. He's still learning to manage the game under his frame, and he is already doing a great job, but will continue to round out the edges. He'll be a productive NHL defenseman in a few years time.

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04-22-2014, 10:50 AM
  #37
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Here is Top Shelf Prospect's Scouting Report on Haydn Fleury. As a defenceman Fleury certainly comes out of the right program, Red Deer has been developing defenseman to be solid at the NHL level for a very long time. Top Shelf Prospects considers Fleury to be the second best defenceman in the draft, and the 10th best player in it.

Full Scouting Report: http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/04/...-haydn-fleury/

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04-22-2014, 04:35 PM
  #38
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Good to see him getting more pub. He's been criminally underrated since last year.

Had to laugh last week when I saw Leafs guy on Twitter talking about how he didn't want him because he was a pure shutdown D with little offence. Yikes!

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04-23-2014, 11:31 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Good to see him getting more pub. He's been criminally underrated since last year.

Had to laugh last week when I saw Leafs guy on Twitter talking about how he didn't want him because he was a pure shutdown D with little offence. Yikes!
Before the season started, I thought he would be able to challenge for that top tier of players in the draft. He was seen as a raw guy with a lot of offensive promise due to his tools.

I think his rating has been very even and fair, as he hasn't made as much of an impact consistently as you'd like offensively overall IMO.

Now, with the season over and he's at U18, I still am wanting more from him offensively. Though, something tells me to stick with this kid as he does all of the little things right and may well start to dominate with a little more time.

In the end, Leafs guy may not be too far off. He has a bit of pre-injury Marc Staal in him.

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04-23-2014, 11:36 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Anthony Mauro View Post
Before the season started, I thought he would be able to challenge for that top tier of players in the draft. He was seen as a raw guy with a lot of offensive promise due to his tools.

I think his rating has been very even and fair, as he hasn't made as much of an impact consistently as you'd like offensively overall IMO.

Now, with the season over and he's at U18, I still am wanting more from him offensively. Though, something tells me to stick with this kid as he does all of the little things right and may well start to dominate with a little more time.

In the end, Leafs guy may not be too far off. He has a bit of pre-injury Marc Staal in him.
I would absolutely disagree. He's an offensive defenceman and should transition to that type of pro career. He skates like the wind and has confidence carrying the puck. Mix in some nice passing skill and you have the potential to be at the very least a good two-way D. He's not nearly physical enough to be considered a Staal type.

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04-23-2014, 11:51 AM
  #41
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Yeah I'm with RS on this one, I do not see any Marc Staal in his game either.

He isn't as physical as Marc Staal, but he's no push over as well (compared to someone like Shea Theodore). He's very tough to push off the puck as well. Hard to say who he compares to, perhaps to Giordano, maybe Yandle, some Jack Johnson in his game?! All three?!

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04-23-2014, 12:00 PM
  #42
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Yeah I'm with RS on this one, I do not see any Marc Staal in his game either.

He isn't as physical as Marc Staal, but he's no push over as well (compared to someone like Shea Theodore). He's very tough to push off the puck as well. Hard to say who he compares to, perhaps to Giordano, maybe Yandle, some Jack Johnson in his game?! All three?!
Theodore is a good one, Johnson is also a good one.

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04-23-2014, 01:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Yeah I'm with RS on this one, I do not see any Marc Staal in his game either.

He isn't as physical as Marc Staal, but he's no push over as well (compared to someone like Shea Theodore). He's very tough to push off the puck as well. Hard to say who he compares to, perhaps to Giordano, maybe Yandle, some Jack Johnson in his game?! All three?!
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I would absolutely disagree. He's an offensive defenceman and should transition to that type of pro career. He skates like the wind and has confidence carrying the puck. Mix in some nice passing skill and you have the potential to be at the very least a good two-way D. He's not nearly physical enough to be considered a Staal type.
The difference in opinion is how physical you think Marc Staal is. I see him as a positional player with smarts who doesn't mind hitting. I don't see him in an intimidating light.

Fleury, while inconsistent, has his moments and can lay some big hits. I think if his offense doesn't take off, he reinvents himself and develops a mean streak. Especially as he matures and adds size/weight.

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05-04-2014, 04:14 PM
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05-04-2014, 08:37 PM
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I don't know how you can say his skating isn't good, he is a smooth skater and even without his defensive abilites he would still be a good OFD, all around he is the 2nd best defenseman after Ekblad easily.

I could see Edmonton taking him, I feel like Fleury is being unrecognized in some draft rankings because he is a defenseman. There isn't one spot in his game where you can say wow he really isn't good in that part of the game.

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05-04-2014, 09:36 PM
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I don't know how you can say his skating isn't good, he is a smooth skater and even without his defensive abilites he would still be a good OFD, all around he is the 2nd best defenseman after Ekblad easily.

I could see Edmonton taking him, I feel like Fleury is being unrecognized in some draft rankings because he is a defenseman. There isn't one spot in his game where you can say wow he really isn't good in that part of the game.
Maybe not, but he also lacks a real go-to skill that shines brighter than anyone else's. Reinhart has his hockey sense, Bennett has his tenacity, Draisaitl has his puck skills, Ekblad has his shot and his physical attributes....

While he is good at a lot of things, he isn't great at any one of them. Rare is the vanilla prospect who becomes a star player, and that is what separates him from top-tier defensemen. Generally top players have that something special that give them a leg up on the masses of players below them on the depth chart. Fleury is a good prospect, but there's a reason why he isn't a top 5 guy.

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05-04-2014, 10:57 PM
  #47
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I don't know how you can say his skating isn't good, he is a smooth skater and even without his defensive abilites he would still be a good OFD, all around he is the 2nd best defenseman after Ekblad easily.

I could see Edmonton taking him, I feel like Fleury is being unrecognized in some draft rankings because he is a defenseman. There isn't one spot in his game where you can say wow he really isn't good in that part of the game.
Actually I think he is the most underrated prospect in this year's draft in terms of talk throughout here and the media. Has that same Erik Johnson domination rushes with the puck where when he goes full speed it's like a tank you cannot stop. Of course this is working with junior prospect players where you have a huge range of different players at different growth timings, but it is something for the future when he is going to be at prime physically level.

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Maybe not, but he also lacks a real go-to skill that shines brighter than anyone else's. Reinhart has his hockey sense, Bennett has his tenacity, Draisaitl has his puck skills, Ekblad has his shot and his physical attributes....

While he is good at a lot of things, he isn't great at any one of them. Rare is the vanilla prospect who becomes a star player, and that is what separates him from top-tier defensemen. Generally top players have that something special that give them a leg up on the masses of players below them on the depth chart. Fleury is a good prospect, but there's a reason why he isn't a top 5 guy.
This is literally the first time I have ever seen someone say that being good overall is bad because he's not great in anything.

If you exclude his hockey sense, Ryan Murray is a perfect example of what you just described. Went #2 overall and looking (currently) like he could have went #1. Of course comparing different drafts is absurd, but a team is going to get a great young defenseman between 5-15th. Won't be a cornerstone piece, but for a team who is lacking that one top-4 defensemen to demote others, he's going to be a perfect fit.


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05-05-2014, 12:21 AM
  #48
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I don't know how you can say his skating isn't good, he is a smooth skater and even without his defensive abilites he would still be a good OFD, all around he is the 2nd best defenseman after Ekblad easily.

I could see Edmonton taking him, I feel like Fleury is being unrecognized in some draft rankings because he is a defenseman. There isn't one spot in his game where you can say wow he really isn't good in that part of the game.
He's not going 3rd overall. He has the physical ability making him a first round pick but he needs a lot of time. 3-4 years possibly. If he goes back next year and works on a lot of the little things, he'll be a step ahead.

What it would come down to for most teams draft board is his work ethic. If teams are comfortable with it, it's all going to depend on what's available per pick. He could slide for sure if he doesn't have that work ethic.

Nobody though should expect much from him over the next few seasons. He's really a hit or miss guy. In an average year, he's 20-40 type pick. The crap shoot this year probably means he's 10-25. It's all going to depend on the individual team. There's no consensus with him.

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05-05-2014, 01:08 AM
  #49
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This is literally the first time I have ever seen someone say that being good overall is bad because he's not great in anything.

If you exclude his hockey sense, Ryan Murray is a perfect example of what you just described. Went #2 overall and looking (currently) like he could have went #1. Of course comparing different drafts is absurd, but a team is going to get a great young defenseman between 5-15th. Won't be a cornerstone piece, but for a team who is lacking that one top-4 defensemen to demote others, he's going to be a perfect fit.
I never said anything about it being bad. I said it was the difference between a good prospect and a great prospect. Plenty of players in the NHL are very good at most everything without having a single talent that stands out. But the marquee players are the ones that generally do have that something extra go-to skill that they can rely on.

Ryan Murray has always been touted to have a high hockey IQ, and that is what separated him from the next tier of defenders in 2012. While he's a good passer and a great skater, that IQ is his bread and butter. That to me is a trait that stands out. You can't say "Beyond that one skill" because most players don't have more than that (those that do are generally the elite of the elite) and to discount it would mean discounting other traits like Kovalchuk's insane athleticism, Chara's reach and physique, Datsyuk's hands....

I'm very comfortable in saying Haydn Fleury is a potential top-4 guy and maybe even higher, and that is nothing to scoff at. He's a perfect target for teams in that mid-1st round range. But to say he should be a target at 3 by the Oilers, like the poster I was quoting suggested, is ridiculous. And this is coming from a guy who'd like nothing more than to watch the Oilers botch a high first rounder.

Obviously a great prospect can't have just one skill (guys like Rico Fata were all speed and nothing else and look where that got them) but if I'm picking, and there are two guys ranked similarly who are both fairly similar in overall skill, I take the guy who is considered one of, if not the, best at a skill like, say, shooting. Or passing. Or hockey IQ. Because the odds are good that when they reach the pros and everyone else has the same general skill level as that prospect, they still have that one skill to stand out and create chances for themselves and their team.

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05-05-2014, 09:08 AM
  #50
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Reminds me a bit of Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester.
He's got poise with the puck

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