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What is Toronto to the League ...?

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Old
10-04-2012, 10:01 AM
  #101
LordRamsay
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Couldn't agree more, get rid of the cap and every man (team) for themselves. I'm sick of seeing us handcuffed by Bettman's folly.

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10-04-2012, 11:05 AM
  #102
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It's the "affirmative action" of sports. Toronto is probably at the biggest disadvantage of any NHL team. They are the biggest market which we all know draws more scrutiny than any other city. Big names don't want to play here largely because of that, we have higher income taxes than many US markets which steers more players away. The franchise has a license to print money and thus far the ownership has treated it like a business. Why would they spend more money on coaches, players and scouts if they are making a max profit.
Other teams have to spend to be competitive or else they will lose revenue. The ACC would be full every night regardless. Crappy situation but we are a victim of our own immense popularity.

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10-04-2012, 11:20 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
(...)
The only ones losing money are the teams that would be making profit. I am sorry but you have it ass backwards.

Phoenix saves money by not having to pay player salaries. Toronto Loses money by not playing games.

So who is the lockout benifiting?

Who is the lockout for? It is to rein in spending so the loser franchises don't lose so much money and maybe in a good year might turn a $5 profit.

As the league's cash cow, we are being screwed 6 ways to Sunday so Bettman can save franchises like Phoenix.
I guess I should have written "What about those among the owners who are losing money (...)?"

So again think it through.

In your scenario, by playing up to the owners losing money, Bettman would be alienating those making money.

He's too smart for that.

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10-04-2012, 11:26 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Being the team with the highest revenue and also the only team in all 30 that has not made the playoffs in the past 7 years is, of course, ludicrous and extremely depressing.

However, the problem is not in the salary cap. "Parity" is not a bad thing for Toronto. The problem lies in the early 2000s in management's inability to consider the next generation of Leafs and decision to instead fixate on the older generation. We were competitive at the time but we have paid dearly for the lack of foresight. There is no cap on management, scouting, development, training etc. so the Leafs still have a major advantage. The problem is they have seemingly failed to take advantage of it.

Parity is not what has caused Toronto's downfall. Management has. If the team consistently had top notch management none of us would care about revenue sharing, etc.
I agree with the majority of your post except for the bolded part . Quinn oporated under a different CBA and was very successful . While they he did trade some futures to go for the cup we weren't the only ones doing it and using a couple of trades as an excuse for why the team is still struggling years later is false .

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10-04-2012, 11:39 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I agree with the majority of your post except for the bolded part . Quinn oporated under a different CBA and was very successful . While they he did trade some futures to go for the cup we weren't the only ones doing it and using a couple of trades as an excuse for why the team is still struggling years later is false .
Although the Nolan trade was the beginning of the end also.

The 2003 draft was outstanding and the Leafs selection could have been used on players such as Corey Perry, Mike Richards, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, Patrice Bergeron etc etc as all were still on the board at that time of Leafs pick.

Big Market teams like Philly were still in WIN NOW mode much like the Leafs, but they never forgot to plan for the future also by drafting 2 X in the 1st round taking Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Anaheim drafted Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry with their 1st rounders and went on to win a Cup shortly after based on this draft.

Quinn assembled one of the oldest teams in NHL heading into a potential Salary Cap World ahead and set the team up for what we're experience today based on that short-sighted vision of only the present.

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10-04-2012, 11:44 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Although the Nolan trade was the beginning of the end also.

The 2003 draft was outstanding and the Leafs selection could have been used on players such as Corey Perry, Mike Richards, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, Patrice Bergeron etc etc as all were still on the board at that time of Leafs pick.

Big Market teams like Philly were still in WIN NOW mode much like the Leafs, but they never forgot to plan for the future also by drafting 2 X in the 1st round taking Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Anaheim drafted Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry with their 1st rounders and went on to win a Cup shortly after based on this draft.

Quinn assembled one of the oldest teams in NHL heading into a potential Salary Cap World ahead and set the team up for what we're experience today based on that short-sighted vision of only the present.
Looking back yes I agree that the Leafs should never have made the Owen Nolan trade, because of who they could have selected in the 1st round of the 2003 Draft.

However at that time they were a serious contender to win the Stanley Cup and had Quinn not made a move like that before the trade deadline a lot of Leafs fans would have been angry and who else would be thinking of the future at that time?

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10-04-2012, 11:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Although the Nolan trade was the beginning of the end also.

The 2003 draft was outstanding and the Leafs selection could have been used on players such as Corey Perry, Mike Richards, Shea Weber, Ryan Kesler, Patrice Bergeron etc etc as all were still on the board at that time of Leafs pick.

Big Market teams like Philly were still in WIN NOW mode much like the Leafs, but they never forgot to plan for the future also by drafting 2 X in the 1st round taking Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. Anaheim drafted Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry with their 1st rounders and went on to win a Cup shortly after based on this draft.

Quinn assembled one of the oldest teams in NHL heading into a potential Salary Cap World ahead and set the team up for what we're experience today based on that short-sighted vision of only the present.
All true Mess but like i said we weren't the only team to trade 1st's back then but we are currently the team with the longest palyoff drought . The Rangers kept there picks that year but still came out of one of the best drafts with nothing .

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10-04-2012, 12:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Looking back yes I agree that the Leafs should never have made the Owen Nolan trade, because of who they could have selected in the 1st round of the 2003 Draft.

However at that time they were a serious contender to win the Stanley Cup and had Quinn not made a move like that before the trade deadline a lot of Leafs fans would have been angry and who else would be thinking of the future at that time?
I didn't like the Nolan trade back then but not because of what we gave up , i hated the trade because i thought Nolan was done . He was a big name player on a big contract but injuries had taken there toll on him and he was a shadow of the player he used to be .

Also you're bang on , we were a serious cup contender and i'm not going to knock a GM for going for the cup .

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10-04-2012, 12:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I didn't like the Nolan trade back then but not because of what we gave up , i hated the trade because i thought Nolan was done . He was a big name player on a big contract but injuries had taken there toll on him and he was a shadow of the player he used to be .

Also you're bang on , we were a serious cup contender and i'm not going to knock a GM for going for the cup .
Correct me if I'am wrong but didn't Nolan start of by getting so many goals with them in his first few games as a Maple Leaf? Although in the Playoffs vs the Flyers in 2003 he had 2 Assists in 7 games which was horrible.

I remember injuries effected him during the 2003-2004 season because he missed a lot of games with an eye injury and after that he got another injury which I think was his knee, so he missed the remainder of the regular season the 2004 Playoffs.

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10-04-2012, 12:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Correct me if I'am wrong but didn't Nolan start of by getting so many goals with them in his first few games as a Maple Leaf? Although in the Playoffs vs the Flyers in 2003 he had 2 Assists in 7 games which was horrible.

I remember injuries effected him during the 2003-2004 season because he missed a lot of games with an eye injury and after that he got another injury which I think was his knee, so he missed the remainder of the regular season the 2004 Playoffs.
Going back and looking at the stats he had a very good spurt when he first came in but Nolan in his prime was more than just a point producer . Nolan was a tough mean player at his peak along with being very good offensivly but these type of players don't age well .

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10-04-2012, 01:01 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I didn't like the Nolan trade back then but not because of what we gave up , i hated the trade because i thought Nolan was done . He was a big name player on a big contract but injuries had taken there toll on him and he was a shadow of the player he used to be .

Also you're bang on , we were a serious cup contender and i'm not going to knock a GM for going for the cup .
Nor would I. Leafs were a 100+ point team and top 8 in the NHL. If you don't go for the Cup when you achieve that status you're an idiot, IMO. Everybody knows the window of opportunity to win the Cup is fleeting.

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10-04-2012, 01:27 PM
  #112
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Nor would I. Leafs were a 100+ point team and top 8 in the NHL. If you don't go for the Cup when you achieve that status you're an idiot, IMO. Everybody knows the window of opportunity to win the Cup is fleeting.
Burke would know this just as well as any other GM in the league.

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10-04-2012, 03:59 PM
  #113
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Couldn't agree more, get rid of the cap and every man (team) for themselves. I'm sick of seeing us handcuffed by Bettman's folly.
I agree. Its supposed to be a competition. Imagine if Bettman was governing a war... "Ok so fight!!! ..but the United states of America needs to give 25% of their guns to Iraq to make it a fair ...

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10-04-2012, 04:09 PM
  #114
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I agree. Its supposed to be a competition. Imagine if Bettman was governing a war... "Ok so fight!!! ..but the United states of America needs to give 25% of their guns to Iraq to make it a fair ...
They already did that under bush senior...wait that was bin laden.

anyway in a salary cap system it doesn't matter(well it shouldn't to the fan, only the owner). And this is why additional revenue sharing should be tied to a simple but heavy luxury tax. Every dollar over the cap is equaled with another directly to the losers. Now the fans who think this matters can sleep at night because of the appearance of competitive advantage and the league won't have to shut down every time the cba expires because one third of the teams can't keep up with the growth of the rest of the league.

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10-04-2012, 04:14 PM
  #115
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They already did that under bush senior...wait that was bin laden.
(...)
Finally, someone with a sense/knowledge of history.

You're bad, good bad, but bad...

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10-04-2012, 04:35 PM
  #116
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We're the Chicago Cubs of hockey.

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10-04-2012, 05:02 PM
  #117
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The cubs have sucked with no salary cap for many more years then our Leafs. Try again.

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10-04-2012, 05:39 PM
  #118
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Anyway actually have a number to how much the leafs lose with revenue sharing?

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10-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #119
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We're the Chicago Cubs of hockey.
If we're anyone, we're the Pirates of the NHL.

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10-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #120
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If we're anyone, we're the Pirates of the NHL.
No we're more like the Cubs. The Pirates spend nothing year after year.

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10-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #121
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What is Toronto to the League?


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10-04-2012, 06:49 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Being the team with the highest revenue and also the only team in all 30 that has not made the playoffs in the past 7 years is, of course, ludicrous and extremely depressing.

However, the problem is not in the salary cap. "Parity" is not a bad thing for Toronto. The problem lies in the early 2000s in management's inability to consider the next generation of Leafs and decision to instead fixate on the older generation. We were competitive at the time but we have paid dearly for the lack of foresight. There is no cap on management, scouting, development, training etc. so the Leafs still have a major advantage. The problem is they have seemingly failed to take advantage of it.

Parity is not what has caused Toronto's downfall. Management has. If the team consistently had top notch management none of us would care about revenue sharing, etc.
It's really about the Leafs being the least prepared after the lockout. It really isn't on the early 200's teams. They always were a near 100 point team.

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10-04-2012, 06:51 PM
  #123
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Toronto is the league's sugar daddy.

They should just secede and offer teams money to come play on an individual basis just to **** with the NHL.

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10-04-2012, 08:11 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
I guess I should have written "What about those among the owners who are losing money (...)?"

So again think it through.

In your scenario, by playing up to the owners losing money, Bettman would be alienating those making money.

He's too smart for that.
Well since most of the Franchises are losing money or barely breakng even how is supporting the majority a bad idea?

Right now I doubt 10 teams are getting hurt, financially.

The other 20 are not losing enough to matter or are actually saving money by not playing.

Bettman is catering to the loser franchises not the big boys.

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10-04-2012, 11:56 PM
  #125
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its pretty simple how to make the nhl more profitable. take out 4 team down to 26 or load up on canadian markets (1 or 2 more) and have like 28 teams. NHL doesn't want to screw over Phoenix and now there screwing over the league.

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