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Old
10-09-2012, 10:18 AM
  #26
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I thought the video was pretty lame.

Whatever.

I get riled up because a lot of the attitude I see from pro-owner people is the sort of top-down, no-respect for employees approach we see in the real world -- even thought Owners vs PA isn't really relatable to most people.

Secondly, I don't trust billionaire owners.
They lie to the fans. They try to squeeze out every god damn penny they can out of us. And then they shut the league down.
And who does it hurt? Not them. Not the players ...

But it hurts the people they're squeezing for money.

At the end of the day, if the players had launched their third strike in 17 years, I'd have a lot less sympathy for them..

These owners have decided to screw over the fans once again. Three times now in 4 CBAs.

That's pathetic. And I don't understand how anyone can side with these guys.
At the same time, Fehr offered to run this season on the expired CBA. In baseball, he engineered a strike that caused the cancellation of a World Series. Also previously, the NHLPA has struck immediately before the playoffs to get a heavily player-friendly deal - which is what ultimately led to the hiring of Bettman and subsequently the 1994-95 lockout, later the 2004-05 lockout and the cap, etc. Anyone who thinks that Fehr wouldn't have done the EXACT same thing in the NHL is deluding themselves; just as the owners are creating leverage with the lockout, the players would have done so with a strike.

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10-09-2012, 11:18 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
So you've given up on adding anything meaningful to the conversation and instead just take shots at me? I can't say any more otherwise I'll have moderators all over me. I'll just leave it at the fact I have an opinion and have backed it up. Sorry you can't do the same.
Your entire opinion equates to the fact you think the owners should never change their CBA when its over, even if the current CBA that all parties agreed upon no longer works for both the players or the owners.

Your point is asinine. The fact you have to take it personally when someone posts a light hearted video makes you appear like you can't take any kind of criticism towards the players.


Also, this appears to be Bob's perception of every owner in the league:


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10-09-2012, 11:26 AM
  #28
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One thing that might be missed in this whole thing is the inflation of the US dollar. Just because the profit numbers are higher doesn't mean the owners are richer or teams more successful.

This whole thing is like a child refusing to mow the grass to demand a higher allowance from his parents, and until the parents pay the kid more they aren't allowed to do anything with their own yard.

Can anyone legitimately say these players, who "really want to play", aren't fairly compensated?

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10-09-2012, 11:40 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Chunkylover View Post
One thing that might be missed in this whole thing is the inflation of the US dollar. Just because the profit numbers are higher doesn't mean the owners are richer or teams more successful.

This whole thing is like a child refusing to mow the grass to demand a higher allowance from his parents, and until the parents pay the kid more they aren't allowed to do anything with their own yard.

Can anyone legitimately say these players, who "really want to play", aren't fairly compensated?
Pretty much this... Also to the point of that analogy how many times does the parent lose that debate.

The Owners are going to win, I hope the players do get more meaningful revenue sharing between owners in this agreement. That idea I like the way they are trying to keep substantially above 50% or work back to that position when every other NA sports union has cracked on this issue is just delusional.

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10-09-2012, 11:44 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Your entire opinion equates to the fact you think the owners should never change their CBA when its over, even if the current CBA that all parties agreed upon no longer works for both the players or the owners.

Your point is asinine. The fact you have to take it personally when someone posts a light hearted video makes you appear like you can't take any kind of criticism towards the players.


Also, this appears to be Bob's perception of every owner in the league:

Okay you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The NHLPA offered to continue playing under the current CBA until a new one could be worked out.

I'm done with this thread and will put it on ignore. Have fun posting whatever drivel you find entertaining.

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10-09-2012, 11:50 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Okay you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The NHLPA offered to continue playing under the current CBA until a new one could be worked out.

I'm done with this thread and will put it on ignore. Have fun posting whatever drivel you find entertaining.
Kind of the same thing Fehr did in 94 in Baseball. On December 31st 1993 the agreement ran out, but the season started because both sides were willing to talk. In August of 1994 during the middle of the season the Players suddenly while being willing to negotiate a new deal under the leadership of Donald Fehr went on strike. The owners some of them like Ilitch that have actually watched this happen with this individual, no way do I allow him that kind of power move.

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10-09-2012, 01:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Okay you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The NHLPA offered to continue playing under the current CBA until a new one could be worked out.

I'm done with this thread and will put it on ignore. Have fun posting whatever drivel you find entertaining.
You may have this on ignore, but just so everyone understands, I SAID THAT THE DEAL NO LONGER WORKS FOR BOTH PARTIES. THE PLAYERS MAY BE FINE WITH THE OLD CBA, BUT THE OWNERS NO LONGER BELIEVE THE CBA WORKS FOR THEM AND WANT TO RENEGOTIATE.

End of story. Go take a walk and stop taking this so personally.

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Old
10-09-2012, 01:59 PM
  #33
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You cant realistically expect the owners to allow the players to keep playing without a new CBA. That trick Fehr pulled only works once. Owners lose any leverage when players are allowed to keep playing and earning paychecks. It was just a ploy by Fehr to give the players "any" leverage since he knows they have none.

I know it will never happen since the players are human beings and people have ego's, but they really need to cave ASAP. They already lost, but now it's just a matter of how many paycheck's they need to lose too. Do i think it's fair? Nope, but life isn't fair.

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10-09-2012, 02:01 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
You cant realistically expect the owners to allow the players to keep playing without a new CBA. That trick Fehr pulled only works once. Owners lose any leverage when players are allowed to keep playing and earning paychecks. It was just a ploy by Fehr to give the players "any" leverage since he knows they have none.

I know it will never happen since the players are human beings and people have ego's, but they really need to cave ASAP. They already lost, but now it's just a matter of how many paycheck's they need to lose too. Do i think it's fair? Nope, but life isn't fair.
After months of feuding, finally something we agree on.

Well said.

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10-09-2012, 03:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Chunkylover View Post
One thing that might be missed in this whole thing is the inflation of the US dollar. Just because the profit numbers are higher doesn't mean the owners are richer or teams more successful.
What inflation? Deflation has been more of a concern in the last five years.

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10-16-2012, 01:05 PM
  #36
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The NHL, in an attempt to save a full season, tendered a new collective bargaining proposal to the players Tuesday in which revenues would be split 50-50.

It appears to be the most significant step taken since the lockout began on Sept. 16.
Gotta figure there's at least a pretty good chance the players take this, and we get a season starting in November. At least one can only hope.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....t_of_re_1.html

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10-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #37
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Some more info...

Quote:
The offer includes a proposal designed to "protect" players from salary reductions in the initial years, a league source told ESPN.com. The league also has removed earlier proposals for systemic changes to player contracts, according to the source.

A source with knowledge of the offer told ESPNNewYork.com that the players' primary concern -- that their current contracts are honored -- is addressed in the proposal. To protect the contracts already in the books, there is a mechanism in place in the league's latest offer to defer payments based on future growth, according to the source.

The NHL's owners have remained adamant that players accept a significant drop from the 57 percent of revenue they received under the salary cap in the last contract. The players don't want what they consider more massive cuts at a time when the overall revenue pot reached record numbers ($3.3 billion) last year.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/85...elated-revenue

Quote:
• Entry level contract maximums will go from three years to four years; i.e. every star rookie will be locked into a 4-year contract before their payday.

• The cap on long-term contracts will be five years. No more lifetime, cap-circumventing deals; no more securing your investments for a decade. But hey, at least the free-agent frenzy will be fun again.

• "Revenue sharing would be at or near 200 million dollars." Closer to what the NHLPA desired, and presumably expanded to teams like the Devils and Ducks.

• Free agency would "be at 28 years old and 8 years of NHL service."

• "Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap." Now, are they formally calling this the Wade Redden Rule or not ..
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5394--nhl.html


Last edited by Frk It: 10-16-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 01:37 PM
  #38
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Moving forward we are, eh? Looks like we are having a season after all. Little increase in RS and 50-50 HRR split or decline over 3 years or so and we are good to go, I think - and seems like that proposal isn't that far away from that.

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10-16-2012, 01:37 PM
  #39
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I like most of those bullet points. It closes two cap loopholes, for starters.

5 year max length? Any chance the NHLPA agrees to that? Sure explains why Weber scrambled to get his payday via offer sheet, that's for sure.

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10-16-2012, 01:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I like most of those bullet points. It closes two cap loopholes, for starters.

5 year max length? Any chance the NHLPA agrees to that? Sure explains why Weber scrambled to get his payday via offer sheet, that's for sure.
I think they would more likely have a problem with the 4 year ELC length and UFA period starting at 28, or 8 seasons.

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10-16-2012, 01:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I like most of those bullet points. It closes two cap loopholes, for starters.

5 year max length? Any chance the NHLPA agrees to that? Sure explains why Weber scrambled to get his payday via offer sheet, that's for sure.
I think 5 years is a little too short. I'd make it 7.

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10-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I like most of those bullet points. It closes two cap loopholes, for starters.

5 year max length? Any chance the NHLPA agrees to that? Sure explains why Weber scrambled to get his payday via offer sheet, that's for sure.
I doubt the NHLPA agrees to that. Seven or eight years maybe.

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #43
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Yahoo changed their initial report. The offer by the NHL includes the same 3 year Entry Level Contract length as before.

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10-16-2012, 05:05 PM
  #44
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I'm not holding my breath, but this looks promising. I think it is a fair proposal from the NHL. The PA won't accept it outright, but this is definitely a strong starting point. Can they get a deal done by November 2? Boy, I hope so.

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10-16-2012, 05:56 PM
  #45
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So long as the NHLPA's counter-offer doesn't try to change the 50-50 revenue sharing I think everything else is negotiable. I just don't see the owners budging from 50-50 and that's fine, that's what it is in every other sport. I like the 5 year maximum on a contract, stops cap manipulation, and we've been on the good side of that before all the other GMs caught on haha

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10-16-2012, 06:00 PM
  #46
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Can we propose a lockout of the insane amount of annoying ads with have to deal with now on HF? I'm almost to the point where I will stop coming here.

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10-16-2012, 06:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ALF AmericanLionsFan View Post
Can we propose a lockout of the insane amount of annoying ads with have to deal with now on HF? I'm almost to the point where I will stop coming here.
Use ad block.

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10-16-2012, 06:37 PM
  #48
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Yeah, I run ad block. Site looks the same to me.

As for this proposal from the league, seems like a pretty significant push. I'm not convinced it will work, but I'm more hopeful now than I was yesterday. Interesting that they still plan to get 82 games back. I read that they will add one extra game every 5 weeks in that scenario, but I imagine the season would also be pushed back a little bit too, no?

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10-16-2012, 07:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Yeah, I run ad block. Site looks the same to me.

As for this proposal from the league, seems like a pretty significant push. I'm not convinced it will work, but I'm more hopeful now than I was yesterday. Interesting that they still plan to get 82 games back. I read that they will add one extra game every 5 weeks in that scenario, but I imagine the season would also be pushed back a little bit too, no?
I'm quite sure they also take All-Star break off.

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10-16-2012, 09:42 PM
  #50
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I'm quite sure they also take All-Star break off.
I don't care for the all-star game, but poor Columbus as usual.

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