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The Lockout Thread UPD 1/6 - framework of new CBA agreed to

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01-03-2013, 11:53 AM
  #551
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Jesus Chrimeny...

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper #NHL #CBA news. All #NHLPA members are being told to re vote as early as today to once again give Board authority to disclaim.

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01-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #552
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch The small group meetings are over for now. It would appear this could be an interesting day and not in a good way. #NHL #NHLPA

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01-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #553
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I'm SPINNING

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch I'm told with threat of disclaimer gone, NHL digging in on key outstanding issues. Should be another fun filled day. #NHLPA

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01-03-2013, 04:31 PM
  #554
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Why is contract length such an issue for players at this point? It really only affects a small percentage of guys, and you'd think with the way most of those guys cash in on the FA market they'd embrace the opportunity to test that market a little more often. Besides, it's not like 6 years is that short a period of time. I just don't get it.


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01-03-2013, 06:08 PM
  #555
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edit: nevermind, didn't explain that well.


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01-04-2013, 03:17 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
Why is contract length such an issue for players at this point? It really only affects a small percentage of guys, and you'd think with the way most of those guys cash in on the FA market they'd embrace the opportunity to test that market a little more often. Besides, it's not like 6 years is that short a period of time. I just don't get it.
Doesn't lowering the year to year cap hit of the high-cost players open up more money for the lower line players?

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01-04-2013, 11:21 AM
  #557
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I am getting the impression the lockout is about to end. Sounds like the players are using a mediator to make sure all the language is perfect, which generally implies they have a verbal agreement and are now bickering about how it is worded on paper. Basically done deal, just working out the details.

At least I sure hope so.

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01-04-2013, 11:52 AM
  #558
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Sleepy, you explained it well. juan, yes it does. Although I think it's silly for players to say "oh, you don't to get rid of back-diving deals? then just don't sign them", and then at this point also say "no, let's keep long-term deals in places so you guys can keep signing back-diving deals".

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01-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #559
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As much as I want the lockout to end now, and hope it does, I selfishly don't want the season to open with Sharks at Stars on Jan. 19 (Which would have been the regularly scheduled game).

I help with the Sharks fan club here in Dallas and I personally put our deposit down for group tickets back in the summer thinking we wouldn't get to this point. Also the deal was you get a pair of free tix, so I put the deposit down (which amounts to about the cost of 4 tickets), and the President of our fan club would take those seats and pay me back the deposit, then my wife and I end up going free. I just have this fear that he won't be able to go now in light of the mess and then I'll have 2 tickets for the cost of 4 sitting next to nobody (important, i.e. Sharks fans).

Now if they get a deal done in the next week and then announce Sharks season opens in Dallas on the 19th, our turnout will be extremely pathetic (there was hope of getting people from California to make the trek out for the game in our group and the hope was to get in the 100-200 range, if not more) and, hell, we aren't even sure my wife can even go. One thing when you can plan a couple months in advance, but potentially 8 days in advance is tough.

I'd rather just get the deposit back, but I doubt the Stars will give it back if Sharks @ Stars on 19th actually happens. Kinda sucks, nobody cares here, just venting, but thought I'd share that I'm hoping for a completely revamped schedule that does not include Sharks @ Stars on the 19th.

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01-04-2013, 12:21 PM
  #560
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I understand the league should not have been so aggressive about expansion, and even keeping that in mind, at what point do we blame the fans?

Not you and me, mind you. I mean the "Casual American Sports Fan." I'm talking about sports fans in, say, South Florida. What if they supported the Panthers half as much as the Heat? What if people in Zona supported the Yotes like they do the D-Backs or even half as much? What if people in DFW supported the Stars like they do the Rangers or even half as much? What if people in Atlanta simply made an effort with the Thrashers?

Would there be a lockout if those casual american sports fans in those cities cared more, especially watching on TV (since TV ratings, especially on local TV deals = money and NHL already has good attendance, but of course more attendance in those markets wouldn't hurt either)?

Would the league and players be fighting over such petty issues if the fans in those markets supported the team more, and thus, there wouldn't be such little amount of money that forces the league and players to quibble?

It seems like the lockouts in the NFL and NBA resolved themselves because they don't have that issue of struggling markets, and, thus, they don't have sides fighting over relatively insignificant amounts of money (like $60M vs. $65M Year 2 Salary Cap). I'm making the contention that this only happens in the NHL because of struggling markets, and those markets struggle because sports fans in those markets don't make an effort with their NHL team. (Not trying to start some discussion about why people don't follow hockey/NHL in US or certain markets, just suggesting that if we are to play the blame game, a big portion of the blame should be laid at the feet of these sports fans who put money/TV eyeballs into MLB, NFL and NBA, but not NHL).

At what point do we say it's that jackass who watches every Heat game, goes to Heat games, watches plenty of Marlins and Dolphins, and goes to those games too, but refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Florida Panthers and everyone like him who has played a significant role in this ridiculous lockout? At what point do we acknowledge that this lockout is ridiculous and petty because of people who like to say that the US only has three big sports leagues NFL, MLB and NBA?


Last edited by ChompChomp: 01-04-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #561
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Lol, that's like blaming every girl who ever rejected you for being alone.

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01-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Lol, that's like blaming every girl who ever rejected you for being alone.
Do you disagree with this though?

Quote:
It seems like the lockouts in the NFL and NBA resolved themselves because they don't have that issue of struggling markets, and, thus, they don't have sides fighting over relatively insignificant amounts of money (like $60M vs. $65M Year 2 Salary Cap). I'm making the contention that this only happens in the NHL because of struggling markets, and those markets struggle because sports fans in those markets don't make an effort with their NHL team.
It would seem that the only reason the NHL and its PA have such petty disputes is because they need to fight over every single nickel and dime because there isn't much money to go around, because of sports fans in struggling markets who don't support their NHL franchise like they do their other major sports franchises.

By way of example, Do you really go 111 days into a lockout if you have a national TV deal that was worth, I dunno, even HALF of the NBA deal? (NBA gets almost $1 BILLION per year on its national TV deal)

This is their deal through 2015-2016. By contrast, the NHL is supposed to get $1B over 10 years, so $100M/year.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...96131424_x.htm

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The NBA will receive about $930 million a year for all its broadcast rights, an increase of more than 20 percent from the previous average of $767 million, according to a person familiar with the deal who requested anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release details.
When there is more money to go around, there is less fighting over it. There isn't a lot of money going around in the NHL = lots of fighting. And there isn't a lot of money going around in the NHL becuase of the casual american sports fan and sports fans in struggling markets.


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01-04-2013, 12:44 PM
  #563
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I think it's the opposite. If you know you have huge support, you can take longer to fix your problems because you know they'll come back next year - NFL here or NHL in Canada. Most of the players being Canadian probably misdirects their egos in thinking how much they can get away with.

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01-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #564
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The ONLY reason you end up with a lockout like this, and on a regular basis, is because the people running the thing are not making money. If they were making money, there would be hockey.

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01-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
At what point do we say it's that jackass who watches every Heat game, goes to Heat games, watches plenty of Marlins and Dolphins, and goes to those games too, but refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Florida Panthers
So we force them to like hockey or demand they spend money on a sport they aren't interested in!! That's it!

lol, you essentially called anyone who doesn't like hockey or support it, but support other sports they like, jackasses.

Newflash man, some people just aren't into hockey.

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01-04-2013, 02:59 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Shape View Post
So we force them to like hockey or demand they spend money on a sport they aren't interested in!! That's it!

lol, you essentially called anyone who doesn't like hockey or support it, but support other sports they like, jackasses.

Newflash man, some people just aren't into hockey.

I know some people aren't into hockey, but a lot of sports fans in their local cities are into supporting their local teams. The Sharks have a contingent of their fanbase that supports them because they are South Bay/San Jose's major pro sports team (although I wish they were viewed as the Bay Area's team, but that's a different issue). Once you get past the fact that there is an NHL team in South Florida, you get to the fact that they have piss poor support. If they had better support, the Panthers would make more money. If the struggling teams made more money, the league as a whole didn't have these money issues, then the owners and players wouldn't be fighting over nickels and dimes. That's my point.

I'm not saying force people to like or support hockey. I'm saying when those Heat fans who don't even know who the Florida Panthers are laugh because of the NHL lockout issues, they should realize THEY are the key problem. (I should have added that the jackasses are the ones who follow the other sports, don't follow hockey/their local NHL team, but laugh at the NHL and its labor issues) Those jackasses have no right to laugh or shake their head or whatever at a league (or local team like Panthers) they never spent any money (or TV eyeballs) on anyways, and consequently their lack of their money/TV support is a big cause of all this mess.


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01-04-2013, 03:26 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
At what point do we say it's that jackass who watches every Heat game, goes to Heat games, watches plenty of Marlins and Dolphins, and goes to those games too, but refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Florida Panthers and everyone like him who has played a significant role in this ridiculous lockout? At what point do we acknowledge that this lockout is ridiculous and petty because of people who like to say that the US only has three big sports leagues NFL, MLB and NBA?
Heat, Marlins, and Dolphins arent exactly tops in attendance in their respective leagues. Well maybe the Heat are but thats only because they have the big 3 and they're a top team now and have just recently won a championship. Even considering those things, the support they get isnt anywhere near where it should be. As for the Marlins and Dolphins, their support is pathetic so the Panthers being a perennial bottom feeder hockey team, the lack of support isnt all that surprising.

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01-04-2013, 03:42 PM
  #568
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Heat, Marlins, and Dolphins arent exactly tops in attendance in their respective leagues. Well maybe the Heat are but thats only because they have the big 3 and they're a top team now and have just recently won a championship. Even considering those things, the support they get isnt anywhere near where it should be. As for the Marlins and Dolphins, their support is pathetic so the Panthers being a perennial bottom feeder hockey team, the lack of support isnt all that surprising.
It's a representative example. Make it Dallas, where I live. There are plenty of sports fans here who laugh about the NHL lockout, but don't put any money or tv eyeballs into the Stars/NHL. The Rangers, Mavs and Cowboys all draw well. The Stars have to beg to get people to come and the past couple of seasons drastically reduced ticket prices for the upper level to even try to make it look respectable in terms of attendance.

The point isn't specifically about South Florida, it applies to all the struggling markets. And I have said (conceded) that getting to my position necessarily means getting over the fact that the NHL went to these cities. I suspect the decision to go to Miami was based on it being a major market PLUS, and maybe more importantly, because of all the Canadian snowbirds down there. I'm guessing what they found is that the Canadian snowbirds don't support the Panthers like the NHL thought they would. I'm guessing they thought those snowbirds would be Panthers and their Canadian team fans, but I suspect they just follow their Canadian team and only go to Panthers games when their Canadian team is in town.

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01-04-2013, 05:37 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
It's a representative example. Make it Dallas, where I live. There are plenty of sports fans here who laugh about the NHL lockout, but don't put any money or tv eyeballs into the Stars/NHL. The Rangers, Mavs and Cowboys all draw well. The Stars have to beg to get people to come and the past couple of seasons drastically reduced ticket prices for the upper level to even try to make it look respectable in terms of attendance.

The point isn't specifically about South Florida, it applies to all the struggling markets. And I have said (conceded) that getting to my position necessarily means getting over the fact that the NHL went to these cities. I suspect the decision to go to Miami was based on it being a major market PLUS, and maybe more importantly, because of all the Canadian snowbirds down there. I'm guessing what they found is that the Canadian snowbirds don't support the Panthers like the NHL thought they would. I'm guessing they thought those snowbirds would be Panthers and their Canadian team fans, but I suspect they just follow their Canadian team and only go to Panthers games when their Canadian team is in town.
The NHL did what the major conferences in college football is doing right now: Expansion based upon TV markets. The difference is that it's a lot easier to get someone to watch another game in the same sport (1 more football game? yes please!) than it is to get people to watch a sport they've probably never played in their life (hockey). The NHL also picked locations that are notorious for not supporting more than 1 sport (South-CFB).

I guess if I had 3 things to fix the business side of the NHL, it'd be this:
1) Better location (relo 2 of the struggling franchises to Seattle and Toronto)
2) Fix currency issues (find some way to set player salaries/cap that adjusts for currency fluctuations. You *know* if the Canadian dollar weakens Winnipeg is done.)
3) Never have a work stoppage again (ie, new commish, raise # of votes needed to block CBA from 8 to 12)

Things I would not do that I think are important:
A) Do not expand # of playoff teams
B) Do not hold a grudge post-CBA
C) Do not ever lose another year of youth fans & athletes to a different sport because of a work stoppage.

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01-04-2013, 06:52 PM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
Heat, Marlins, and Dolphins arent exactly tops in attendance in their respective leagues. Well maybe the Heat are but thats only because they have the big 3 and they're a top team now and have just recently won a championship. Even considering those things, the support they get isnt anywhere near where it should be. As for the Marlins and Dolphins, their support is pathetic so the Panthers being a perennial bottom feeder hockey team, the lack of support isnt all that surprising.
If there was one surprising thing that I noticed because of this lockout, it's that when I saw the Warriors/Heat game, I was stunned by the number of empty seats in the arena. I mean these were the world champions, and there were a lot of people not there. I don't think the Dolphins had issues with not selling out this last season but that heat game was surprising to say the least.

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01-05-2013, 09:13 AM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
The NHL did what the major conferences in college football is doing right now: Expansion based upon TV markets. The difference is that it's a lot easier to get someone to watch another game in the same sport (1 more football game? yes please!) than it is to get people to watch a sport they've probably never played in their life (hockey). The NHL also picked locations that are notorious for not supporting more than 1 sport (South-CFB).

I guess if I had 3 things to fix the business side of the NHL, it'd be this:
1) Better location (relo 2 of the struggling franchises to Seattle and Toronto)
2) Fix currency issues (find some way to set player salaries/cap that adjusts for currency fluctuations. You *know* if the Canadian dollar weakens Winnipeg is done.)
3) Never have a work stoppage again (ie, new commish, raise # of votes needed to block CBA from 8 to 12)


Things I would not do that I think are important:
A) Do not expand # of playoff teams
B) Do not hold a grudge post-CBA
C) Do not ever lose another year of youth fans & athletes to a different sport because of a work stoppage.
2: this has already been fixed, it was actually changed a little bit after the jets, whalers, nordiques left the nhl.

3: a new commish would not change anything about the owners attitudes towards a lockout.

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01-05-2013, 01:02 PM
  #572
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At this point I really hope they don't compromise and settle things this year. A 48 game season would be a joke and the likely deal they would agree to will be a compromise that will leave everyone pissed off and not solve the economic problems of the league, i.e., we'll be back in this happy place 8 years from now.

I'd much rather see the owners hold firm, regardless of what that means in terms of lost season, disclaimer, litigation, etc. And I'd really like to see the players feel the pain of a full season of making no money and/or playing overseas for peanuts, riding buses and eating fast food. A full season off might give both sides a little perspective and result in a better long term deal.

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01-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #573
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At this point I really hope they don't compromise and settle things this year. A 48 game season would be a joke and the likely deal they would agree to will be a compromise that will leave everyone pissed off and not solve the economic problems of the league, i.e., we'll be back in this happy place 8 years from now.

I'd much rather see the owners hold firm, regardless of what that means in terms of lost season, disclaimer, litigation, etc. And I'd really like to see the players feel the pain of a full season of making no money and/or playing overseas for peanuts, riding buses and eating fast food. A full season off might give both sides a little perspective and result in a better long term deal.
I'm at that point too. I would much rather see a league go through this darkness now if that means something like 20 years of Peace. Like or Hate Donald Fehr, when he was in Baseball and they had the strike of 1994, they haven't had a work stoppage since. I don't know how much Fehr has to take credit for that, but that's got to mean something good right? A 48 game season is a joke, and if this lockout means getting the league to have some kind of labor peace long term and to bring in some stability, that can only be a good thing. If the only thing this lockout means is that we're right back in this same position 8 years from now, than that's a futile lockout. Let's get it right once and for all.

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01-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #574
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I can only guess he's talking about the lockout. Hm....

Bret Hedican ‏@BretHedican Nothing official yet that I've heard, but several sources have said it's done. Let's hope this is Official!

EDIT:

Ratto says this is the tweet he's referring to.

Jeff O'Neill ‏@odognine2 BREAKING- #NHLLOCKOUT is over. Camp opens Jan 12. 50 game season. #lockout

EIDT2:

Darryl Hunt ‏@210Darryl Two #NHL players I talk to with some regularity both expect to be voting on accepting a new CBA on Monday or Tuesday.

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01-05-2013, 03:26 PM
  #575
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FWIW TSN's panel (Darren Dreger, Bob McKenzie, James Duthie, & Aaron Ward) is on live during the replay of the WJC medal games noting that progress is being made, and they're hearing that people on both sides are optimistic, but they haven't had anyone concretely say they think that a deal is done or imminent.

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