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Lockout Thread: Games thru Nov. 30th to be cancelled| Part III.

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:45 PM
  #251
Krazy
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So we know where the proposal stands in terms of

1.) Revenue split at 50/50
2.) Contract length at 5 years
3.) Ufa age is 8/28
4.) sounds like a cap gets put in for 2013????

But questions I still have are:
1.) what happens with the existing contracts ie kovy/luongo.
2.) what about the trading of money... is it pure cap space or can the other team buy out or take some money off the top....
Mackenzie made mention of wanting retribution for long term deals...... how does that look in the new contract...

Will teams have a buyout time?

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10-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Disappointed in the owners.

I wanted them to hold strong to their previous offer indefinitely. Even if the lockout lasted years and years.
Wait out the players until the Union is broken.

Truth is, I don't think they would even have had to wait very long.
A few more months, and the players would have started caving... just like the last lockout.
So it's not just the leafs you don't like, it's hockey in general. Good to know.

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10-16-2012, 08:48 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
5yrs maximum for contracts - i like it

how many players already have more than 5 yr deals in place i wonder....
I'd rather 8.

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10-16-2012, 08:53 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
So it's not just the leafs you don't like, it's hockey in general. Good to know.
Actually, it's that I like hockey so much that I want things settled long term. Not patch works.

Break the union.

Even when half of the teams are losing money, they still fight against sacrifices.
Just break the union. Their selfishness knows no bounds.

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10-16-2012, 08:54 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Boggles my mind that anyone sees this number as some glorious olive branch when it is the exact number I said they were after when they made their first pitch.

So much time wasted for nothing.....
I was refering to the NHLPA actually countering the offer this time instead of clinging to their offer. Huge slide in negotiations and will really get the ball rolling.

The fact they will be ready to counter Thursday is a great sign too. Quick response means the offer wasn't absurd and the NHLPA is actually considering parts. If the offer was horrible we would have seen the NHLPA likely reject it and either offer a new proposal they have been working on or sit on it for awhile and offer something more different.

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10-16-2012, 08:55 PM
  #256
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Another great sign

Quote:
Darren Dreger‏@DarrenDreger

Interesting: top 10 $ earning teams will pay up to 50% of revenue sharing pie in NHL proposal.

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10-16-2012, 09:03 PM
  #257
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Everyone should get ready for Joe Public to be up in arms when the NHLPA declines this deal by thursday. And why are they going to be upset? Because its going to look like the players are too greedy to accept the deal, without knowing the in's and outs of the deal. The league has played this angle very well after a terrible crapstorm of being portrayed as the bad guy since the start of the lockout. Not saying that it will completely change the fans minds, but its going to make people more upset.

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10-16-2012, 09:05 PM
  #258
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i would guess those presently getting 6yr plus deals would not be affected
but not being able to send them to the AHL does make it tricky
just by them out if you have to, ala colby armstrong

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10-16-2012, 09:16 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
70 x .07 = 4.9, so the cap should be 65.1, correct me if im wrong thou.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Correct you are. Virtual calc let me down.
If you roll back the split from 57 to 50, it's more than a 7% roll-back in terms of the cap. Given the current cap of 70M, going to 50/50 with the same revenues would mean a cap of 61.4

(50/57) * 70 would be the formula

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10-16-2012, 09:18 PM
  #260
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Any word on if the deal offered by the owners includes amnesty buy out(s) to allow teams to get to the new salary cap number?

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10-16-2012, 09:18 PM
  #261
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Only thing that would worry me about a compressed 82 game schedule would be the likelihood of more injuries occurring.

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10-16-2012, 09:29 PM
  #262
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CBC's Tim Wharnsby tweets 'NHLPA will seek clarification on several points in NHL offer Wednesday. Counter proposal Thursday.

Tim Wharnsby ‏@WharnsbyCBC

NHLPA will seek clarification on several points in NHL offer on Wednesday. NHLPA will make counter proposal in Toronto on Thursday.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:39 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Actually, it's that I like hockey so much that I want things settled long term. Not patch works.

Break the union.

Even when half of the teams are losing money, they still fight against sacrifices.
Just break the union. Their selfishness knows no bounds.
Yea everyone should just accept pay cuts without a fight. What nonsense.

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10-16-2012, 10:02 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Actually, it's that I like hockey so much that I want things settled long term. Not patch works.

Break the union.

Even when half of the teams are losing money, they still fight against sacrifices.
Just break the union. Their selfishness knows no bounds.
Now I don't mean to start us up again but there is zero chance the union breaks. And by some chance it did, the players are filthy rich. The team owners are the ones losing money hand over fist. They are still on the hook for arena rentals also for most of them.

Also, the longer it goes Disgruntled, the harder it will be to get fans back in the teams in the south. Those owners are seeing money evaporate every day.

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10-16-2012, 10:02 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Yea everyone should just accept pay cuts without a fight. What nonsense.
Old money likes the idea that no one except those born with money should ever get ahead. That's pre-industrial revolution thinking.

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10-16-2012, 10:05 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Another great sign
That bugs me. We are one of the teams that have to give handouts. Its like we are giving money to teams to help them beat us.

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10-16-2012, 10:06 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Everyone should get ready for Joe Public to be up in arms when the NHLPA declines this deal by thursday. And why are they going to be upset? Because its going to look like the players are too greedy to accept the deal, without knowing the in's and outs of the deal. The league has played this angle very well after a terrible crapstorm of being portrayed as the bad guy since the start of the lockout. Not saying that it will completely change the fans minds, but its going to make people more upset.
yes, and Fehr makes money the longer this thing goes on. I think his sales pitch to the players will be very simple...."we can get more, just hold out".

I think Fehr is a crooked little weasel.

He has taken other sports on long strikes before.

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10-16-2012, 10:08 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
If you roll back the split from 57 to 50, it's more than a 7% roll-back in terms of the cap. Given the current cap of 70M, going to 50/50 with the same revenues would mean a cap of 61.4

(50/57) * 70 would be the formula
Yep your correct, although multiple people beat you to it.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:24 PM
  #269
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looking good so far, but the PA prob has the upper hand now

MLSE will be upset cause they gotta pay up more cash

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
So we know where the proposal stands in terms of

1.) Revenue split at 50/50
2.) Contract length at 5 years
3.) Ufa age is 8/28
4.) sounds like a cap gets put in for 2013????

But questions I still have are:
1.) what happens with the existing contracts ie kovy/luongo.
2.) what about the trading of money... is it pure cap space or can the other team buy out or take some money off the top....
Mackenzie made mention of wanting retribution for long term deals...... how does that look in the new contract...

Will teams have a buyout time?
Here is your answer:

Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.
Good thing Burke didn't sign long term deals. Just imagine Devils still having Kovy's salary hit even in 2025 at the age of 42 years.

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10-16-2012, 11:02 PM
  #271
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Here's more info on the NHL's proposal from Bob McKenzie
*read from the bottom up, as the top is his most recent tweets*


Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Or so I've been led to believe. It's late, stuff is complicated, imagine all details likely to be out there tomorrow. G'nite. #andgoodluck

3m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
In other words, the benefit clubs thought they were getting by reducing AAV with back-diving deals/bogus end yrs would be reduced/negated.

8m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

14m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
One of most interesting aspects of NHL proposal is aimed at punishing clubs more than players, with regard to existing back-diving deals.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
20m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.

23m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Every NHL team would be eligible to receive revenue sharing but top 10 $ clubs responsible for contributing 50 per cent of $200M pool.

26m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Each club, in any given year, tho, would be subject to a 2 contract and/or $5M limit in terms of retaining salary.

28m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
On trading of cap space/retaining salary, it would be limited to $3M for each contract year left or 50 per cent of AAV, whichever is less

33m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
The floor for this season would be $43.9M and cap would be $59.9M altho in Year 1 teams could still spend to $70.2M but only in Year 1.

35m Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Some of the following may be repetitive but more detail is emerging on NHL proposal, so here is some info:

3h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Hey, @DarrenDreger and I were either going to retweet each other's stuff or do the synchro routine. We're done now.

3h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
If player comes out of entry level 1 yr earlier, is 1 yr further away from salary arb and UFA, less pressure on teams to give big contract.

3h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
1. Entry level would go from 3 to 2 yrs. 2. Salary arb eligibility would go from 4th to 5th yr. 3. UFA goes 7/27 (service/age) to 8/28.

4h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
NHL's other big systemic concern is curtailing big-money 2nd contracts coming out of entry level. Proposal has 3 mechanisms aimed at that.

4h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
That 5 year term limit and the 5 per cent variance restriction are aimed at eliminating back-diving contracts, a primary NHL concern.

4h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
In other words, a multi-year deal with an AAV of $10M would on a year by year basis not go up or down by more than $500K.

4h Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Not only is NHL proposing 5 year limit on player contract length, it's proposing the yearly salary variance can't be more than 5 per cent.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

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10-16-2012, 11:06 PM
  #272
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One of the biggest things from this proposal that some people were asking on here was that the contracts that are 5+ years.... If that player happens to retire in those later years, his cap hit is still counted against that teams cap for every year he had left.

For all those Burke haters out there that always bashed him for not getting the "big deals" done or the front loaded contracts, he looks like he will be in great shape if this is how it remains!

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10-16-2012, 11:17 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caber93 View Post
One of the biggest things from this proposal that some people were asking on here was that the contracts that are 5+ years.... If that player happens to retire in those later years, his cap hit is still counted against that teams cap for every year he had left.

For all those Burke haters out there that always bashed him for not getting the "big deals" done or the front loaded contracts, he looks like he will be in great shape if this is how it remains!
Mckenzie said the original teams get hooked for cap hit after retiring. Makes Luongo an enticing target.

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10-16-2012, 11:21 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by caber93 View Post
One of the biggest things from this proposal that some people were asking on here was that the contracts that are 5+ years.... If that player happens to retire in those later years, his cap hit is still counted against that teams cap for every year he had left.

For all those Burke haters out there that always bashed him for not getting the "big deals" done or the front loaded contracts, he looks like he will be in great shape if this is how it remains!
I think it's pretty obvious that I'm anti Burke on most things... but I mostly stayed out of the cap circumventing contract debates.

That being said... and it pains me to say this... if those rules stay in the cba, then Burke left himself in a pretty good position compared to numerous other GM's.
I actually feel dirty for saying that, and am about to go take a shower.

I wonder what those rules would do to Luongo's trade value...

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10-16-2012, 11:30 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that I'm anti Burke on most things... but I mostly stayed out of the cap circumventing contract debates.

That being said... and it pains me to say this... if those rules stay in the cba, then Burke left himself in a pretty good position compared to numerous other GM's.
I actually feel dirty for saying that, and am about to go take a shower.

I wonder what those rules would do to Luongo's trade value...
I think it's more possible that his trade value increases rather than decreases. With the new rules, as of 2016-2017, his salary paid will count toward the cap and not the AAV. So for 2 seasons, the team would have about an extra $1.5M of cap space eaten up by Lou's contract but by the 2018-19 season, his actual dollars drops significantly. Even if he retires before the salary drops, Vancouver will be on the hook for the remaining 6M on his contract.

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