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News from Around the League - Part XXXIII - The "No, you go first" edition

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10-17-2012, 02:30 PM
  #451
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Do entry level guys count on the NHL cap hit if they're in the AHL? All of our entry level guys(Henrique, Josefson, Tedenby, Larsson) are paid between $60k-$70k in the AHL. I saw something about salaries over $105k. I'm guessing not cause it wouldn't make any sense?

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10-17-2012, 02:30 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Do entry level guys count on the NHL cap hit if they're in the AHL? All of our entry level guys(Henrique, Josefson, Tedenby, Larsson) are paid between $60k-$70k in the AHL. I saw something about salaries over $105k. I'm guessing not cause it wouldn't make any sense?

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10-17-2012, 02:34 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by onefatsurfer View Post
Haha so many questions!

I would think no. With all the weird **** we've heard like trading cap space, and fining teams cap hits for players who have contracts 5+ years in length if they retire , who knows?

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10-17-2012, 02:36 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Do entry level guys count on the NHL cap hit if they're in the AHL? All of our entry level guys(Henrique, Josefson, Tedenby, Larsson) are paid between $60k-$70k in the AHL. I saw something about salaries over $105k. I'm guessing not cause it wouldn't make any sense?
under 105k salary doesnt count against cap. Over 105k salary does. Doesnt really make a difference since pretty much all of those guys except maybe tedenby will be playing at the nhl level anyway.

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10-17-2012, 02:39 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
under 105k salary doesnt count against cap. Over 105k salary does. Doesnt really make a difference since pretty much all of those guys except maybe tedenby will be playing at the nhl level anyway.
Yeah definitely. I was just rattling off our entry level guys numbers. They're all under $105k so it don't matter. Butler is at $105k also for his AHL salary, as is Jam Canssen!

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10-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Can't say I'm shocked. Dissapointed, but not surprised

Jesus f'ing christ, we knew you weren't going to take the deal no questions asked, but instead of pointing out everything that's wrong with it at least concede it's a starting point and negotiate off that. I'm very worried about what the players wind up proposing tomorrow...this could blow up in the next 24-48 hours.
Well, if they keep "negotiating" they'll slowly see as time goes on that all of the fans on the players side will turn to "**** and play hockey."

Fehr is concerned of the $231 million in revenue yet he doesn't seem to be concerned about if they reach late December/early January and cancel the season the players will lose $1.6 billion in projected revenue.

Anyone know how much the league was investing in revenue sharing last year? I'm curious how much the increase in $200 million was compared to the old CBA.

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10-17-2012, 02:43 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
under 105k salary doesnt count against cap. Over 105k salary does. Doesnt really make a difference since pretty much all of those guys except maybe tedenby will be playing at the nhl level anyway.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought that the under $105K cap hits were because they were 2 way contracts, meaning in the AHL they only get paid a percentage of their NHL contract (like 20%).

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10-17-2012, 02:46 PM
  #458
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Like I said I never liked Fehr. Always sided with the players, but never liked him. If they follow him like sheeple down the cliff I can't say I feel sorry for them. I'm coming around to siding with Gary, Bill, and the owners now. Fehr is a union thug. I've seen guys like this before for more than half my life.

The only thing I can criticize Gary, and the NHL owners right now is not presenting this proposal on September 16th, rather than October 16th. I'm sure posting the proposal had a lot to do with getting fan support on their side now, but it was a good move I think.

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10-17-2012, 02:57 PM
  #459
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the players were never going to accept any proposal on 9/16, nor start actively negotiating based on any proposal submitted at that time. they had their minds set on war the moment they hired fehr to represent them.

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10-17-2012, 03:03 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
The only thing I can criticize Gary, and the NHL owners right now is not presenting this proposal on September 16th, rather than October 16th. I'm sure posting the proposal had a lot to do with getting fan support on their side now, but it was a good move I think.
That and the 'eleventh hour rule' of throwing out a proposal at the last minute before you can no longer do a full season.

I don't disagree with Fehr when he says the owners haven't offered the players 'any' pluses, problem is they basically called your bluff. The players were *****ing about HRR and not getting their complete salaries, well the owners met the players halfway on HRR and have guaranteed their salaries, albeit in deferred money. Steve Fehr said they could agree on non-HRR issues in six hours.

Gary put the Fehrs in check and we'll see whether Don continues to whine and runs away from the chessboard and has the cult follow him off the cliff, or makes the most out of the situation.

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10-17-2012, 03:06 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Well, if they keep "negotiating" they'll slowly see as time goes on that all of the fans on the players side will turn to "**** and play hockey."

Fehr is concerned of the $231 million in revenue yet he doesn't seem to be concerned about if they reach late December/early January and cancel the season the players will lose $1.6 billion in projected revenue.

Anyone know how much the league was investing in revenue sharing last year? I'm curious how much the increase in $200 million was compared to the old CBA.
Not to mention Fehr obviously learned nothing from the baseball nonsense in '94 (or just flat doesn't care about destroying the sport). There WILL be backlash, as much as Gary wants to poo-pooh it and Fehr wants to ignore it, you cannot put the fans through this twice in eight years without there eventually being some consequences. There was major backlash toward the baseball players in '95, loss of ticket revenue, etc. And that was before social media exploded, hell Twitter didn't even exist in 2004, let alone 1995.

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10-17-2012, 03:10 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Not to mention Fehr obviously learned nothing from the baseball nonsense in '94 (or just flat doesn't care about destroying the sport). There WILL be backlash, as much as Gary wants to poo-pooh it and Fehr wants to ignore it, you cannot put the fans through this twice in eight years without there eventually being some consequences. There was major backlash toward the baseball players in '95, loss of ticket revenue, etc. And that was before social media exploded, hell Twitter didn't even exist in 2004, let alone 1995.
Speaking of backlash from the fans, what font do you think they'll pick for the "THANK YOU FANS!" on the ice? I'm hoping for Wingdings.

They did have message boards back in 1995 though.

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10-17-2012, 03:12 PM
  #463
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Regardless of font, I demand that it say "Thank you fans... Again."

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10-17-2012, 03:13 PM
  #464
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Regardless of font, I demand that it say "Thank you fans... Again."
They'll probably throw spoiler tags at the bottom of it.

THANK YOU FANS!
Spoil:
Sorry, that's a lie. I mean 2 lockouts in 8 years, do you think we really care about anything other than money?


Also I wish the Season Ticket Holders had a union. I mean if this deal goes down and the owners get 7% more income, shouldn't the loyal STH's who fork over thousands of dollars up front each year deserve some of that 7%? But in the end the owners will pocket it, at least the money that doesn't go to revenue sharing.

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10-17-2012, 03:14 PM
  #465
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I hated those thank you fans **** under the ice.

That whole season they had it all the way to the SCF I think. It's kinda like when they have NHL FACEOFF on the ice, only the whole year.

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10-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
They'll probably throw spoiler tags at the bottom of it.

THANK YOU FANS!
Spoil:
Sorry, that's a lie. I mean 2 lockouts in 8 years, do you think we really care about anything other than money?
They could split it. The defensive zone with a hearty "Thank you fans!"

And in the attacking zone with "And thanks in advance for lockout #4 in 4 - 7 years"
Spoil:
Because do you really think we'd stop caring about milking each other for $$ the fourth time around?


Last edited by manilaNJ: 10-17-2012 at 03:23 PM. Reason: ..meh
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10-17-2012, 03:22 PM
  #467
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I don't really like that penalizing teams for contracts over 5 years if they retire. Having the cap hit count until it's end.

It would hurt a lot of teams though. Not just us. Every team in our division has a contract like this though. Crosby has 10+ years right now. If he doesn't stay healthy who knows if he can play that long? The Flyers got Bryz for another 9 years I think. Rangers got Richards another 9 years, and the Isles got dumpster Dipietro for like what? Another 9? 10 years now?

Someone mentioned Longopadsman. Vancouver's gonna get ****ed if he goes, and plays somewhere else and retires.

I'm surprised there is no amnesty buyout we've heard about yet?

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10-17-2012, 03:26 PM
  #468
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I'm (somewhat) okay with the penalizing of those teams, what I'm not fine with is the fact that they're doing this AND we were penalized already, on top of this.

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10-17-2012, 03:30 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by onefatsurfer View Post
I'm (somewhat) okay with the penalizing of those teams, what I'm not fine with is the fact that they're doing this AND we were penalized already, on top of this.
I really just want hockey right now, and this could complicate. What I would do though is since those contracts were under the old CBA, is let teams sign long contracts. Put a limit like 7-8 years though. If anyone sign a player over 5 years, then they're penalized with the cap hit if that players doesn't continue.

All those guys in our division will be over 40 when their contracts expire(Kovy, Bryz, Richards, Dipietro) and Crosby won't be in his 40s, but I don't think he'll definitely play another 10 years. I'm not saying I think his career is by any means close to done. I just don't know if I see him playing quite 10 years with the problems he's had.

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10-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #470
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Once again, only thinking about how this would benefit rich teams. This would benefit every team.
I disagree. It's going to eliminate parity and put the major markets at a distinct advantage of making the playoffs.

You're going to have the same teams (NYR, Chicago, Detroit, Philly, and Montreal and Toronto when they improve) buying cap space and the same teams (Florida, Phoenix, Dallas, Nashville) selling cap space for prospects.

When this happens, you will see the same thing you see in baseball. The same major markets will make the playoffs every year and the remaining spots will be a revolving door of small market teams.

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10-17-2012, 03:59 PM
  #471
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All the stuff you see or read out of Fehr or Bettman's mouth is ********, absolutely ********. It's a propaganda, and I take everything with a grain of salt. No one else realizes that this seemingly perfect news that paints the NHL as the side that wants to get a deal done came a day after the NHL signed a Public Relations firm.
Personally I could care less. Whatever is the impetus for getting a deal done is fine by me. I'm glad someone's getting concerned about PR because if they weren't, neither side would budge since both care more about winning than the game and we'd have the same ******** we did in 2004 with two kids taking their ball and running home screaming, never to come outside again.

Besides, the NHL may gain short-term PR-wise but long-term who really gives a ****? I was on the owners' side as it were in the last lockout, but by the time the season got canceled I really didn't give a **** and hoped both sides took it up the ***. That's ultimately what's going to happen if another season gets canceled, fans won't give a **** who made the best offer or who won the PR war.

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10-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #472
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I don't really like that penalizing teams for contracts over 5 years if they retire. Having the cap hit count until it's end.

It would hurt a lot of teams though. Not just us. Every team in our division has a contract like this though. Crosby has 10+ years right now. If he doesn't stay healthy who knows if he can play that long? The Flyers got Bryz for another 9 years I think. Rangers got Richards another 9 years, and the Isles got dumpster Dipietro for like what? Another 9? 10 years now?

Someone mentioned Longopadsman. Vancouver's gonna get ****ed if he goes, and plays somewhere else and retires.

I'm surprised there is no amnesty buyout we've heard about yet?
Crosby, DiPietro, and even Pronger will only retire after the contracts are up because they can collect paychecks and sit on LTIR as long as the want. As for the others, I think a compromise should be made. A player may pull a Ricky Williams and retire abruptly in his early 30s. Teams shouldn't be fined for that. But contracts like Bryzgalov and Kovy, if you sign a deal until youre 42 years old and the player retires at 40, well there was probably some sort of wink-wink agreement made and teams deserve to be penalized for it.

This part of the proposal is kind of contradictory anyway since the CBA also proposes a maximum contract year of 5 years. So you won't have any contracts under this proposed CBA exceeding 5 years, unless of course they're referring to current contracts which I don't think is particularly fair.

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10-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #473
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meetings between the nhl and nhlpa are scheduled for 1pm et tomorrow.
haha time for **** nhlpa counter

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10-17-2012, 04:28 PM
  #474
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haha time for **** nhlpa counter
The fireworks factor will be reached I feel. One side brought gasoline and the other matches.

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10-17-2012, 04:47 PM
  #475
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The fireworks factor will be reached I feel. One side brought gasoline and the other matches.
I still think a deal with get done by the 25th...but theres gonna be a lot of up and downs before then. Fehr is gonna scrape and claw to get whatever he can the next 2 weeks and then just settle when time runs out.

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