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News from Around the League - Part XXXIII - The "No, you go first" edition

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Old
10-17-2012, 10:40 PM
  #501
AsherDoodle
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Just read Fehr's full letter to the players. Don't like it at all.

The guy points out the absolute negative in every part of the proposal and spins all the potential positives into negatives.
There is also this:

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o A special rule be developed for existing long term (longer than 5 years) contracts that would take up more salary cap space than the current rules provide
So under the new proposal, Kovalchuk's cap hit would not only remain for the entirety of the contract even if he retires, it would be recalculated to a higher number.

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10-17-2012, 11:01 PM
  #502
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I can't see the NHLPA agreeing to that though. It just eats the maximum amount of possible money the owners can spend.

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10-17-2012, 11:49 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
You kind of just have to ignore the PR battles. Because it's all fake, especially the players. "We just want to play". Everyone is equally greedy. They're arguing over how to share billions of dollars.

And they're willing to forgo a large part of that billion in order to prove a point, or something. This has always seemed counterproductive to me. Instead of taking the golden goose to the brink of being slaughtered, why not continue to play under the old contract and renegotiate during the season? Surely that's more sensible for everyone involved?

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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Again. WHY WHY WHY WHY do professional athletes making hundreds of thousands, or millions a year need a union? The union is BS!
If they didn't have the union, they wouldn't be making the millions. I don't begrudge them their union, the owners would be taking them to the cleaners without it.

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10-17-2012, 11:54 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post

If they didn't have the union, they wouldn't be making the millions. I don't begrudge them their union, the owners would be taking them to the cleaners without it.
And that's exactly the part I'm talking about. I can't completely begrudge them their union. I just hate what this whole situation has come to. Then a bozo like Fehr leading them.

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10-18-2012, 07:25 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
Doom and Gloom time again ?

#Hawks' Toews on NHL's offer: "There’s no real effort. It’s just a ploy to sway the positive light back in their favor".
Guess what Toews, it's working. As I said before, the longer this goes, you'll slowly but surely see people on the players side sway to the owners because they're tired of waiting and want hockey.

The match that is the fan's patience for the players is about to burn the thumb.

(And following njdevsfn95's analogy, once burned the hand will drop it in gas).

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10-18-2012, 07:29 AM
  #506
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Also I think there's a lot of people who side with the players because they see the owners as this big, greedy, Monopoly-man type owner who has all the money in the world. While it's true that some owners have an endless pot of money (ie Ed Snider and Comcast), I wish these people would realize that both sides are taking incredible risks...Players put their well being on the line, owners, especially small-market owners, put their financial well being/career on the line. Owners invest a ton of money and if they fail they not only cripple themselves, but everyone in the organization (workers, players, etc). So I can understand the small market owners arguing over how much (%) they give up. Which is also why I was happy to see that they offered to increase the revenue sharing as well.

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10-18-2012, 09:07 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Also I think there's a lot of people who side with the players because they see the owners as this big, greedy, Monopoly-man type owner who has all the money in the world. While it's true that some owners have an endless pot of money (ie Ed Snider and Comcast), I wish these people would realize that both sides are taking incredible risks...Players put their well being on the line, owners, especially small-market owners, put their financial well being/career on the line. Owners invest a ton of money and if they fail they not only cripple themselves, but everyone in the organization (workers, players, etc). So I can understand the small market owners arguing over how much (%) they give up. Which is also why I was happy to see that they offered to increase the revenue sharing as well.
For me, my outright disdain for the ownership side is that the most vocal members and the biggest cheerleaders for takebacks from the players were the ones causing the problems.

The hypocrisy and the "look at what the players are making us do!" attitude from the likes of Boston, Philadelphia and Minnesota made me tune them out quickly.

Which is unfortunate because, as fans, I think we all agree that something needs to be done about player contracts. They could have easily taken the fans on their side.... had they not made a mockery of the current CBA over this past summer.


The players stole a lot of the support from the fans by the "let us play" attitude, because we wanted to watch hockey. That's it. That's all we wanted.

But, I think everyone's coming around to the fact that both sides are arguing nothing but "GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME!"

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Old
10-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
For me, my outright disdain for the ownership side is that the most vocal members and the biggest cheerleaders for takebacks from the players were the ones causing the problems.

The hypocrisy and the "look at what the players are making us do!" attitude from the likes of Boston, Philadelphia and Minnesota made me tune them out quickly.

Which is unfortunate because, as fans, I think we all agree that something needs to be done about player contracts. They could have easily taken the fans on their side.... had they not made a mockery of the current CBA over this past summer.


The players stole a lot of the support from the fans by the "let us play" attitude, because we wanted to watch hockey. That's it. That's all we wanted.

But, I think everyone's coming around to the fact that both sides are arguing nothing but "GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME!"
Yeah I agree with your point about the loudest owners. I'd like to hear the small market teams more vocal, but it seems like many are staying quiet. Maybe they think it's rude to argue to increase revenue sharing since they're already getting an increase (if your boss gives you a 1% raise do you go and argue that you want a 3% raise?).

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10-18-2012, 11:02 AM
  #509
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At the meetings today:

Craig Adams
Brad Boyes
Chris Campoli
David Clarkson
Dan Cleary
Carlo Colaiacovo
Sidney Crosby
Mathieu Darche
Shane Doan
Shawn Horcoff
Jarome Iginla
Robyn Regehr
Eric Staal
Matt Stajan
Shawn Thornton
Jonathan Toews
Kevin Westgarth
Dan Winnik

And for the owners:
Jacobs, Leipold, Edwards and Leonsis

...oh boy.

I'll go with Bobby Mac on this one...
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
I'm no labor expert but my experiences suggest there's direct correlation between how many people in room and how much is NOT accomplished.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:08 AM
  #510
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NHL has done a great job PR-wise.

I just wish I had a blog so I could really tell the idiots what's going on, I will be the Holik of bloggers. It says it all when the front page of NHL.com says "NHL's OFFER TO SAVE 82 GAME SEASON," they are trying to get the unknowledgeable into thinking they are the right party, and they are doing a damn good job.

When in actuality, they are the wrong party and they are just trying to screw the players over with every deal.

My dad summed it up perfectly," It's like the little kid that runs to his mom and says 'he hit me'" The people that the NHL got into thinking their right are the ones that get angry at the kid for hitting their son/daughter, but the real answer is "why did he hit you?"

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:12 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
NHL has done a great job PR-wise.

I just wish I had a blog so I could really tell the idiots what's going on, I will be the Holik of bloggers. It says it all when the front page of NHL.com says "NHL's OFFER TO SAVE 82 GAME SEASON," they are trying to get the unknowledgeable into thinking they are the right party, and they are doing a damn good job.

When in actuality, they are the wrong party and they are just trying to screw the players over with every deal.

My dad summed it up perfectly," It's like the little kid that runs to his mom and says 'he hit me'" The people that the NHL got into thinking their right are the ones that get angry at the kid for hitting their son/daughter, but the real answer is "why did he hit you?"
It sounds like you've gobbled up the players' every word. Neither side wants to give in. That's why we are where we are.

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10-18-2012, 11:14 AM
  #512
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Oh boy, Clarkie is gonna trip over something in the board room.

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10-18-2012, 11:15 AM
  #513
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Oh boy, Clarkie is gonna trip over something in the board room.
Somehow, while sitting down.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
It sounds like you've gobbled up the players' every word. Neither side wants to give in. That's why we are where we are.
I didn't, like I've been saying, I agree with what the player's are saying, but I don't agree how they are going about it.

All these deals favor the owners. This deal may be a bit better than the other ones which were pure insults, but everything in this deal is for the owner's benefit. The players need a reason to go from 57 to 50, they are just going to do it without some kind of compensation. Meanwhile, not only did the NHL go from 57 to 50, they also restricted contracts, extended RFA length, and other stuff. There's no reason for the players to do that deal, they are just losing ground.

It's a starting point, yes, but it's still far off from a reasonable deal between the two parties.

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10-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #515
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Can't wait to see Fehr embarrass himself, and these dumbos including Clarkson, Toews, and Crosby, and other guys follow him off a bridge.

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10-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
At the meetings today:

Craig Adams
Brad Boyes
Chris Campoli
David Clarkson
Dan Cleary
Carlo Colaiacovo
Sidney Crosby
Mathieu Darche
Shane Doan
Shawn Horcoff
Jarome Iginla
Robyn Regehr
Eric Staal
Matt Stajan
Shawn Thornton
Jonathan Toews
Kevin Westgarth
Dan Winnik

And for the owners:
Jacobs, Leipold, Edwards and Leonsis

...oh boy.

I'll go with Bobby Mac on this one...
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
I'm no labor expert but my experiences suggest there's direct correlation between how many people in room and how much is NOT accomplished.
I'm more concerned with 'who' is in the room, douches like Jacobs/Leipold and hard-liners like Toews don't make me feel much better about something getting done.

That said, unless the key guys lose total control of the room I can't see the players getting involved and shouting rhetoric per se, they're there to observe and confer with the Fehrs I think. Then again, if the owners start mouthing off the players will too.

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10-18-2012, 11:24 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
NHL has done a great job PR-wise.

I just wish I had a blog so I could really tell the idiots what's going on, I will be the Holik of bloggers. It says it all when the front page of NHL.com says "NHL's OFFER TO SAVE 82 GAME SEASON," they are trying to get the unknowledgeable into thinking they are the right party, and they are doing a damn good job.

When in actuality, they are the wrong party and they are just trying to screw the players over with every deal.

My dad summed it up perfectly," It's like the little kid that runs to his mom and says 'he hit me'" The people that the NHL got into thinking their right are the ones that get angry at the kid for hitting their son/daughter, but the real answer is "why did he hit you?"
Is someone close to you a player or something? Your position seems extremely biased. The truth is both sides are morons. And it seems clear to me that the PA is more interested in getting vengeance for the last cba than actually working out a deal that is fair and healthy for everyone involved.

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10-18-2012, 11:27 AM
  #518
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There's not as many nobody guys like George Parros this time. Perhaps the guys like him that aren't making the real money are getting fed up with Fehr. Maybe not, who knows?

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10-18-2012, 11:27 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I didn't, like I've been saying, I agree with what the player's are saying, but I don't agree how they are going about it.

All these deals favor the owners. This deal may be a bit better than the other ones which were pure insults, but everything in this deal is for the owner's benefit. The players need a reason to go from 57 to 50, they are just going to do it without some kind of compensation. Meanwhile, not only did the NHL go from 57 to 50, they also restricted contracts, extended RFA length, and other stuff. There's no reason for the players to do that deal, they are just losing ground.

It's a starting point, yes, but it's still far off from a reasonable deal between the two parties.
Guess what, whatever they can get this week IS the best deal the players are going to get, Fehr or no Fehr they have to realize that. They have 'some' leverage now with sponsors not wanting the Winter Classic, the All-Star game and the 82-game season to fall by the wayside, but all that goes out the window once December hits and all that's gone.

And if that happens the owners have PROVEN they care more about breaking the union and winning than the integrity of the sport, they'll sit out a whole year again and get a better deal by neccesity since there'll be less money to split but the players will have less leverage having missed a whole season while the owners are still sitting on guaranteed TV money.

Reason needs to prevail, on both sides (the owners also have to know there WILL be long-term damage if they do this again) but ultimately they still have more leverage than the players long-term and as such, the deal has to be slanted their way somewhat.

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10-18-2012, 11:30 AM
  #520
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I just have no patience for any of this from either side. Rich people getting upset because they might lose the ability to add a ferrari to their collection of sports cars. Give me a ****ing break. They should be happy that they get rich playing a game in this economy. And I love how the people who pay these clowns (we the fans) are not even part of the equation. **** all of them.

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10-18-2012, 11:31 AM
  #521
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And it seems clear to me that the PA is more interested in getting vengeance for the last cba than actually working out a deal that is fair and healthy for everyone involved.
This has worried me from the minute Fehr was hired. We'll find out once and for all after today, I suppose.

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10-18-2012, 11:34 AM
  #522
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Guess what, whatever they can get this week IS the best deal the players are going to get, Fehr or no Fehr they have to realize that. They have 'some' leverage now with sponsors not wanting the Winter Classic, the All-Star game and the 82-game season to fall by the wayside, but all that goes out the window once December hits and all that's gone.

And if that happens the owners have PROVEN they care more about breaking the union and winning than the integrity of the sport, they'll sit out a whole year again and get a better deal by neccesity since there'll be less money to split but the players will have less leverage having missed a whole season while the owners are still sitting on guaranteed TV money.

Reason needs to prevail, on both sides (the owners also have to know there WILL be long-term damage if they do this again) but ultimately they still have more leverage than the players long-term and as such, the deal has to be slanted their way somewhat.
I know, there's the other side of it.

Like I said, what the players are saying it totally true about the NHL, but the chances of them getting what they want are slim, it doesn't make them any less wrong though.

Players will hold out in an attempt to get the best deal possible. Eventually, they will have to give up some HRR and some other stuff, but they are going to wait it out until they can hopefully get a better deal. Sure it may backfire, but that's their stance. The NHL has also proven they don't see the union as anything significant, they've rolled over them and the players have caved in. This time around, the players actually have a strong leader.

I think the players right now should ask for a 53-47 percent stake, while keeping most of what the NHL said intact. That's probably their best bet at getting a deal done, whether or not they want a deal done right now, is a different story. They could continue their hard-headed stance, which would be unfortunate as a hockey fan, but I can't blame them to be honest.

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10-18-2012, 11:55 AM
  #523
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I've been on the players side since day 1. After the NHL's proposal, I'm neutral. I just want hockey.

Today's proposal will determine if I side with the owners from here on out. Their proposal was reasonable, with plenty of room for improvement. How much improvement the NHLPA asks for will determine if we have a season or not.

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10-18-2012, 12:09 PM
  #524
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: NHL/NHLPA meeting pushed back to 230 pm ET at earliest - both sides say

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10-18-2012, 12:26 PM
  #525
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Watch the PA try and get more than 50% in every year on their proposal

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