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News from Around the League - Part XXXIII - The "No, you go first" edition

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #576
NJDevs26
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
And that's what they're not getting. There is not the figurative carrot to be dangled in front of them to follow the owners down the path to 50/50.
So let them make their own ****ing proposal that includes better terms off the basis of 50-50 instead of trying to dial it back to 53-54 percent. They're so stuck up about not losing a piece of money now in escrow, they're going to lose ALL the money from this season and next season when they come back the pie's not going to be as big.

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10-18-2012, 04:24 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
So let them make their own ****ing proposal that includes better terms off the basis of 50-50 instead of trying to dial it back to 53-54 percent. They're so stuck up about not losing a piece of money now in escrow, they're going to lose ALL the money from this season and next season when they come back the pie's not going to be as big.
Perhaps that's what they did, I'm going to dial it back on NHLPA criticisms until I hear what brand of rhetoric Fehr has to offer up.

My comments are league based right now because they're the ones whining right now, upset that they couldn't get everything they wanted. And literally, their proposal included everything an owner could want.

Once Fehr comments, that might sway my view.

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10-18-2012, 04:24 PM
  #578
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i have been done with the players for awhile now. i think it's a combination of the moronic talk i have heard from the majority of players, and their sense of entitlement that has made me side somewhat with the owners.

i just can't listen to morons like toews, barch, bissonnette (the most ridiculous one, considering he gets paid to warm a bench & tweet) and parise talk about this stuff to the public anymore.

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10-18-2012, 04:27 PM
  #579
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I hope the players start to turn on Fehr. It's no surprise million dollar darlings like Crybaby Sid are always on stage with this ****in piece of trash. I hope the little guys start to turn on him. Guys like Carter, Bernier, Barch, Gio, as much as I hate him on our team Janssen.

These guys will have no jobs and they probably just wanna play. Guys like Kovy, and other russian stars like Volchenkov, and Ovy, and Malkin have the KHL safe haven. Guys like Giroux, and those big names, and Parise. Even our guys like Marty, and Patty can get a job somewhere overseas. Hopefully people start turning.

I was on the players side, but at this point as I said yesterday. I'd rather kiss Bettman(On the cheek no tongue LOL) than shake Fehr's slimy decrepit hand. I wouldn't have said that before the other day either.

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10-18-2012, 04:29 PM
  #580
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There's definitely a large contingent of players who have been strutting around with one foot lodged firmly in their mouths, for sure.

But, on the same token, if the owners want to make any progress with the players... they're going to have to give up something.

Not saying what's right, what's wrong... but that's what's going to have to happen to even take a step in the right direction.

And coming down from 46/54 to 50/50 isn't that necessary sacrifice.

The players need to realize they're going to have give up a lot and the owners need to realize they're going to have to give up something. Both sides have to keep that in mind as they go forward.

I'm interested to see what the owners found so backwards today.

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10-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Perhaps that's what they did, I'm going to dial it back on NHLPA criticisms until I hear what brand of rhetoric Fehr has to offer up.

My comments are league based right now because they're the ones whining right now, upset that they couldn't get everything they wanted. And literally, their proposal included everything an owner could want.

Once Fehr comments, that might sway my view.
We saw what Fehr thought when that letter to the NHLPA got published the other day. I was hoping it was just posturing but it obviously wasn't. And to a certain extent I agree with you that the NHL should have at least offered the players an improvement in 'some' area. But you don't throw a ****ing hissy fit and decide to just make a horse**** offer because you're angry. Be a ****ing adult.

Don Fehr may wind up being the most hated person in TWO major sports when it's all said and done, if he isn't there already.

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10-18-2012, 04:33 PM
  #582
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Scotty K ‏@Scottyk9
@strombone1 @D_Booth7 Miss a season then get your 55% of a MUCH SMALLER PIE and pissed off fans...yeah makes a lot of sense... good job.

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10-18-2012, 04:34 PM
  #583
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Scotty K ‏@Scottyk9
@strombone1 @D_Booth7 Miss a season then get your 55% of a MUCH SMALLER PIE and pissed off fans...yeah makes a lot of sense... good job.
I wish 'someone' with stature could get this logic through to them. They won't get the message unfortunately until they do come back and see fans' wrath and apathy. They aren't going to be able to get fans back because of juiced players and rinks the way baseball did, and they lost their get out of jail free card doing this in 2004. You can only do this so many times before the fans finally say **** off, and when they do the damage to this sport will be irreparable.

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10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #584
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Scotty K ‏@Scottyk9
@b_ryan9 50-51% of whats there now is more than the 54-55% that will be there after a canceled season and pissed fans !


40s Bobby Ryan ‏@b_ryan9
@Scottyk9 only want to do this once in my career. Not every six years

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10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #585
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Is it time for a mediator yet?

I'm reading "The Instigator" right now and it looks like a mediator was forced upon them in 04-05 it didn't solve everything, but it got the ball rolling and made them stop dicking around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
40s Bobby Ryan ‏@b_ryan9
@Scottyk9 only want to do this once in my career. Not every six years
This is where I'm torn. I want hockey back as soon as possible, but I don't want a half assed band aid solution that sets us up for round 4 in 5/6/7 years.

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10-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #586
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
Players offers fell to 50 percent over a five year term but sources say none guaranteed they'd get there. #NHL #NHLPA

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10-18-2012, 04:39 PM
  #587
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This is where I'm torn. I want hockey back as soon as possible, but I don't want a half assed band aid solution that sets us up for round 4 in 5/6/7 years.
Problem with that logic is we missed a year and are STILL back here seven years later. So how long, exactly does the NHL have to miss to avoid being back here again in another seven years?

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10-18-2012, 04:43 PM
  #588
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Problem with that logic is we missed a year and are STILL back here seven years later. So how long does the NHL have to miss to avoid being back here again in six years?
The solution to 04-05, although it lost an entire year, was still assembled hastily once a cap was agreed upon. Cap + a certain methodology of revenue sharing was supposed to guarantee "cost certainty" ... didn't work out.

The holes, that are the money hemorrhaging clubs, need to be patched up with some precision.

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10-18-2012, 04:48 PM
  #589
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And if you guys are going to bombard twitters at least bombard Crosby's or Toews', guys that were in the room. Or loons like Bisonette. I'm not sure if Bobby Ryan or Luongo are militant like Toews and most of the other big names.

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10-18-2012, 05:01 PM
  #590
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Players are playing hardball. It could backfire.

I for one, understand their position, but the way they are going about it (i.e. playing hardball) is a bit questionable. I can't side with the owners because the deal they made was a starting point, but the players still lose and lose big-time.

It seems like the players will continue to play hardball, hoping the NHL ups their offer yet again, but we don't know if they will do that.

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10-18-2012, 05:06 PM
  #591
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James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Fehr about to describe three proposals. No. 1: Would have fixed share in first three years. Share then frozen until hits 50% (Year 3 to 5).

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Says option 1 saves owners between $800M-1.1B. Sorry I missed numbers for second

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 2: Players will get 25% of any growth. Their share would hit 51% by Year 4 and 50% by Year 5 with 5% growth.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 3: "We'll move to 50-50 as long as you honour contracts." Players get 13% up front to cover those contracts.

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA was ready to give 50/50 if all actual signed contract will be paid at 100% with no escrow.


Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr says NHL rejected all 3 NHLPA proposals. Says NHL only willing to work off its Tuesday offer

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Old
10-18-2012, 05:08 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
The solution to 04-05, although it lost an entire year, was still assembled hastily once a cap was agreed upon. Cap + a certain methodology of revenue sharing was supposed to guarantee "cost certainty" ... didn't work out.

The holes, that are the money hemorrhaging clubs, need to be patched up with some precision.
Let's be honest, this nonsense about needing to help the poor teams is a red herring. Every single major sport has its weak markets, and they all have different systems and forms of revenue sharing. Only the NFL - which got comprehensive revenue sharing done in the early '60's before the modern crazy money became a factor - is pretty much immune to teams going bankrupt/being in the red.

I love how one of the main voices about changing the system is Leopold, who basically bought not one, but TWO $100 million players months before the lockout.

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10-18-2012, 05:11 PM
  #593
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glad i switched to the khl. they got hot ice girls too.

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10-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #594
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That is kind of odd. I could understand putting up a picture of him as a professional, but it's a little weird to see one of him as a kid.
Someone in the office must be a huge fan. I like that.

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10-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #595
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Watch the PA try and get more than 50% in every year on their proposal
Called it.

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10-18-2012, 05:18 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Let's be honest, this nonsense about needing to help the poor teams is a red herring. Every single major sport has its weak markets, and they all have different systems and forms of revenue sharing. Only the NFL - which got comprehensive revenue sharing done in the early '60's before the modern crazy money became a factor - is pretty much immune to teams going bankrupt/being in the red.

I love how one of the main voices about changing the system is Leopold, who basically bought not one, but TWO $100 million players months before the lockout.
Ok, but the point is it needs to STOP being red herring like it was last time.
It's not solely about the existence of weak markets, it's how to deal with them - look at some of the half empty stadiums in baseball that are in no danger because they pocket a fair amount of money off the luxury tax.

That's not the way to go in hockey, but something can be done.
The current method of revenue sharing actually winds up being a hindrance for some teams that actually do need to dip into that financial pot... like the Islanders and our very own New Jersey Devils.

There are far more markets struggling financially than cashing in on these record revenues. And that's not sustainable. Players/Owners need to find a way to get that done.

There are any number of ways to get there, but they can't start hammering away at these issues until they get done squabbling over how much money they can put in their own pockets first.

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10-18-2012, 05:23 PM
  #597
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James Mirtle‏ @mirtle 9m
Fehr says they haven't gotten to discussing issues beyond player share. Term limits etc. not touched (and still very contentious).
Wonderful. I guess it doesn't occur to any of these loons to use player share to get concessions in other areas.

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10-18-2012, 05:24 PM
  #598
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(three or four hours ago)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Bettman: we're "going to get a deal done." Was an interesting, respectful exchange.
Now this goes right alongside the Parise 'Don't worry' quote in hockey infamy (although Bettman didn't actually say 'when' a deal would get done ).

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10-18-2012, 05:24 PM
  #599
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This league can kiss my ass. Owners, players, **** em all. Every single one of them. I'm not all that pissed today because it was painfully obvious that the league gave the NHLPA an offer they would never consider accepting.

Both sides, all they give a **** about is money and public perception. They're walking down a tough road, that's all I know. It just has to get to a point where fans, diehard or not, are sick and tired of the circus act.

These pieces of ****ing **** ruined this sport. It's a damn shame.

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10-18-2012, 05:25 PM
  #600
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Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
I have no problem with idea of guaranteeing contracts as signed under old CBA, but doing it without escrow is tricky.

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
Going forwards, you'd have players with new contracts paying larger escrow amounts to guarantee the split that's been agreed to.

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
So, if you didn't sign your contract under the old deal, you're footing the escrow bill for the rest of membership.
For once I agree with everything TG said. The PA would be screwing themselves over with this.

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