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02-02-2013, 09:25 PM
  #726
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After the last three games it's finally time...Roy Sommer has got to go.
Who's in charge of that? Is it SJ front office or is it the Worcester front office?

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02-02-2013, 09:37 PM
  #727
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Who's in charge of that? Is it SJ front office or is it the Worcester front office?
SJ.

They put together a pretty good team here this season and it's being coached by a guy that's shown he can't win. Before it could be argued Sommer was never given a great hand to play, but this season he has trip aces right now and he's playing it like he's got a busted straight.

It's time.

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02-02-2013, 11:24 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
SJ.

They put together a pretty good team here this season and it's being coached by a guy that's shown he can't win. Before it could be argued Sommer was never given a great hand to play, but this season he has trip aces right now and he's playing it like he's got a busted straight.

It's time.
Its time to call Yawney

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02-02-2013, 11:28 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
SJ.

They put together a pretty good team here this season and it's being coached by a guy that's shown he can't win. Before it could be argued Sommer was never given a great hand to play, but this season he has trip aces right now and he's playing it like he's got a busted straight.

It's time.
Wouldn't you say that he's had players out with injuries and several lost to the NHL level, wouldn't that contribute to lack of results...

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02-03-2013, 07:26 AM
  #730
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Wouldn't you say that he's had players out with injuries and several lost to the NHL level, wouldn't that contribute to lack of results...
The last three games? No.

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02-03-2013, 08:37 AM
  #731
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After the last three games it's finally time...Roy Sommer has got to go.
Really? Only now? I (an others far less conceited than me <grin>) have been saying that for years!

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02-03-2013, 10:03 AM
  #732
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Really? Only now? I (an others far less conceited than me <grin>) have been saying that for years!
It's time now. Seriously. All emotion aside, enough is enough.

This team was put together to win (or at least win more than the usual AHL team SJ puts together) and these guys are playing some sort of system that makes zero sense to anyone with an ounce of hockey knowledge. The power play should be killer with FOUR puck moving defensemen playing but it often goes the full two minutes without a scoring chance. That's a coaching failure.

My unofficial numbers for the last three games: on odd man rushes up ice the WorSharks have surrendered an average of seven shots per game against (this includes the rush itself and then any shots back on goal after the initial save/rebound/etc) while taking at total of just five. Read that again...the other teams have averaged seven per game and the WorSharks have taken a total of five. That's a coaching failure.

Watch a video of the end of last season of Sebastian Stalberg and Yanni Gourde playing. Now watch one from the last few weeks. They don't look like the same players. Not even close. Neither is scoring nor putting themselves in a position to score. That's a coaching failure.

Off all the players that could legitimately be called "prospects" on this team only two, Brodie Reid and Harri Sateri, are having what I would consider an "up" year. Except for Tim Kennedy not a single veteran on the roster is having even close to an average year. That's a coaching failure.

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02-03-2013, 12:40 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
It's time now. Seriously. All emotion aside, enough is enough.

This team was put together to win (or at least win more than the usual AHL team SJ puts together) and these guys are playing some sort of system that makes zero sense to anyone with an ounce of hockey knowledge. The power play should be killer with FOUR puck moving defensemen playing but it often goes the full two minutes without a scoring chance. That's a coaching failure.

My unofficial numbers for the last three games: on odd man rushes up ice the WorSharks have surrendered an average of seven shots per game against (this includes the rush itself and then any shots back on goal after the initial save/rebound/etc) while taking at total of just five. Read that again...the other teams have averaged seven per game and the WorSharks have taken a total of five. That's a coaching failure.

Watch a video of the end of last season of Sebastian Stalberg and Yanni Gourde playing. Now watch one from the last few weeks. They don't look like the same players. Not even close. Neither is scoring nor putting themselves in a position to score. That's a coaching failure.

Off all the players that could legitimately be called "prospects" on this team only two, Brodie Reid and Harri Sateri, are having what I would consider an "up" year. Except for Tim Kennedy not a single veteran on the roster is having even close to an average year. That's a coaching failure.
Yeah it's a pretty telling indicator when veteran players play below their usual ability. And when young players aren't developing the way they should, that's bad news for the entire organization, not the mention those kids themselves.

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02-03-2013, 07:18 PM
  #734
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The last three games? No.
Ok. I never really thought he was that great of a coach at the AHL level, really more of a train and develop players for the NHL. Given that, i can't see him being replaced any time soon.

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02-03-2013, 10:01 PM
  #735
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Ok. I never really thought he was that great of a coach at the AHL level, really more of a train and develop players for the NHL. Given that, i can't see him being replaced any time soon.
If you take a good look at it he's no better at it than what any other organization has done...

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02-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #736
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If you take a good look at it he's no better at it than what any other organization has done...
So how important really is an NHL's AHL Development teams coach anyway... Sure to develop players that are NHL ready, be somewhat competitive with the team / parts you have by playing the NHL teams system, etc.

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02-04-2013, 12:15 AM
  #737
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So how important really is an NHL's AHL Development teams coach anyway... Sure to develop players that are NHL ready, be somewhat competitive with the team / parts you have by playing the NHL teams system, etc.
Well if you can cultivate a winning culture in the AHL, I'm sure it'll do a world of help for the guys who are developing and if the coach is using the players in a way that will hinder their development then it won't help them at all.

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02-04-2013, 09:13 AM
  #738
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I am seriously getting tired of reading about the coaching failures down there, I find it hard to fathom the organization doesn't see the issues first hand. What is really going on?

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02-04-2013, 09:44 AM
  #739
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I am seriously getting tired of reading about the coaching failures down there, I find it hard to fathom the organization doesn't see the issues first hand. What is really going on?
When you ask about it from DW (or any of the other uppers in hockey ops) you get the PR number about how many players who played in the NHL played for Roy Sommer. The problem is they count players like Riley Armstrong (2 games), Steven Zalewski (10 games), Brandon Mashinter (a dozen or so), Nate Raduns (1 game), and Mike Moore (6 games).

They also go the other way and count guys that hardly played for Sommer like Matt Carle (3 games), Marc-Edouard Vlasic (1 game), Joe Pavelski (16 games...where he went 8-18-26, yep, that was all Roy ), Devin Setoguchi (25ish games, 8-11-19).

If you were to run through any organization's AHL affiliate for the entire time Roy Sommer has been in charge of San Jose's you're going to find similar numbers to Roy's in most organizations. My question is why does San Jose think Sommer is so valuable when he's not done anything that others haven't.

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02-04-2013, 01:36 PM
  #740
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From what I have seen, the development route taken seems markedly different for those players destined for top 6 vs. bottom 6.

If a player needs seasoning in the AHL, they may top out at the 2nd line. This is just hyperbole obviously. i dont have hard data, just seems to be the case, at least with the sharks. So you wont really see a lot of NHL success stories having played a lot of games with the AHL affiliate.

most skill deficiency (skating, shooting, passing) is improved over the off-season. (practices during regular season are system oriented). so if a player is "ready" hes probably done the work on his own.

So what I am getting at, is you are right, 210. This coach hasnt, or probably cant really do anything above the norm, unless he is working on the side with players throughout the season.

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02-04-2013, 01:49 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by 210 View Post
When you ask about it from DW (or any of the other uppers in hockey ops) you get the PR number about how many players who played in the NHL played for Roy Sommer. The problem is they count players like Riley Armstrong (2 games), Steven Zalewski (10 games), Brandon Mashinter (a dozen or so), Nate Raduns (1 game), and Mike Moore (6 games).

They also go the other way and count guys that hardly played for Sommer like Matt Carle (3 games), Marc-Edouard Vlasic (1 game), Joe Pavelski (16 games...where he went 8-18-26, yep, that was all Roy ), Devin Setoguchi (25ish games, 8-11-19).

If you were to run through any organization's AHL affiliate for the entire time Roy Sommer has been in charge of San Jose's you're going to find similar numbers to Roy's in most organizations. My question is why does San Jose think Sommer is so valuable when he's not done anything that others haven't.
So far the Blue line output from Worcester has been very impressive under Sommer. He hasn't had a whole lot of opportunities to develop forwards lately. However the rate of NHL caliber D men that have come from Sommer is undeniably impressive and trumps the lack of forwards by a mile. All you need is three names: Braun, Demers, and Irwin. Thats a gold mine of late picked D men. I'm sorry to hear about Wor losing but those three names means Sommer stays in my opinion.

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02-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #742
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Oh wait!!! I forgot about Couture... and Wingels and Desi. Someone get Sommers a contract extension. The mans record speaks for itself.

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02-04-2013, 02:57 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
So far the Blue line output from Worcester has been very impressive under Sommer. He hasn't had a whole lot of opportunities to develop forwards lately. However the rate of NHL caliber D men that have come from Sommer is undeniably impressive and trumps the lack of forwards by a mile. All you need is three names: Braun, Demers, and Irwin. Thats a gold mine of late picked D men. I'm sorry to hear about Wor losing but those three names means Sommer stays in my opinion.
Dave Cunniff handles nearly everything involving the defensemen...it's his back you should be patting for those three.

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02-04-2013, 03:03 PM
  #744
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Oh wait!!! I forgot about Couture... and Wingels and Desi. Someone get Sommers a contract extension. The mans record speaks for itself.
He gets credit for Desjardins (although to be blunt I've never met a harder worker than Desi)...not so much on Wingles and Couture as you could see the talent in those kids from day one. Hell, Speed and I were talking up Couture after seeing him play a handful of games in late 08-09 where his only highlight was driving Wolf Pack goaltender Matt Zaba to the ice like Couture was a linebacker and Zaba was a quarterback.

And Couture was 20-33-53 in 42 games here in 09-10. Yep, that was all about Roy.

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02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #745
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Sommers problem (among many) is that he sucks at developing skill players. The skill players that have come up for the Sharks have usually spent hardly no time in the AHL. And the ones that did were obviously talented and probably succeeded in spite of him. But given his long stint he should have been able to convert at least a couple of the "skill with issues" guys like Zalewski, Kaspar, and Iggulden (as examples) into NHL players.

He really only seems capable of developing (meaning actual improvement and development) of grinders and purely defensive players (and that might be because of Cuniff, not Sommers). He has no clue how to really run a high-offense team, and no real clue on developing skill players.

The other side of this is the number of "borderline" players who suddenly did much better once they got to the NHL and got away from him (Clowe and Murray being two prime examples).

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02-04-2013, 04:41 PM
  #746
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02-04-2013, 07:15 PM
  #747
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02-05-2013, 02:00 AM
  #748
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Sommers problem (among many) is that he sucks at developing skill players. The skill players that have come up for the Sharks have usually spent hardly no time in the AHL. And the ones that did were obviously talented and probably succeeded in spite of him. But given his long stint he should have been able to convert at least a couple of the "skill with issues" guys like Zalewski, Kaspar, and Iggulden (as examples) into NHL players.

He really only seems capable of developing (meaning actual improvement and development) of grinders and purely defensive players (and that might be because of Cuniff, not Sommers). He has no clue how to really run a high-offense team, and no real clue on developing skill players.

The other side of this is the number of "borderline" players who suddenly did much better once they got to the NHL and got away from him (Clowe and Murray being two prime examples).
No coach would have been able to develop Kaspar. Irwin, Braun, and Demers are skill players. I don't think I'd call either a grinder. In fact there hasn't been too many blue line grinders coming from Wor... Couture is a high pick/calibur skill player. As for forwards Sommer hasn't had too many golden opportunities. He hasn't converted too many diamonds in the rough either. As for Clowe and Murray... they were low draft picks converted into permanent players... if they were being developed so poorly why were they called up in the first place?


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02-05-2013, 04:28 AM
  #749
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No coach would have been able to develop Kaspar. Irwin, Braun, and Demers are skill players. I don't think I'd call either a grinder. In fact there hasn't been too many blue line grinders coming from Wor... Couture is a high pick/calibur skill player. As for forwards Sommer hasn't had too many golden opportunities. He hasn't converted too many diamonds in the rough either. As for Clowe and Murray... they were low draft picks converted into permanent players... if they were being developed so poorly why were they called up in the first place?
Demers played one season in the AHL, in which he played pretty much the way he had for the last few years. He got sent down for 25 games the next season, but that was mostly due to roster issues in SJ, not Demers. So attributing his presence in the NHL to Sommers in any way doesn't work for me. Braun spent even less time in the AHL (43 games total), so again, you can't attribute him to Sommers. Irwin spent 2.25 seasons in the AHL. The .25 was due to the lock-out this year, and folks have been saying he deserved some NHL time since his first season. So again, I'm not sure that you can attribute his presence in the NHL to Sommers in any way.

As for Kaspar or other skilled forwards, by now there should have been more than 1 "borderline" player (Clowe) to make the NHL by now with as long as Sommers has been head coach down there. But there simply hasn't.

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02-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #750
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Demers played one season in the AHL, in which he played pretty much the way he had for the last few years. He got sent down for 25 games the next season, but that was mostly due to roster issues in SJ, not Demers. So attributing his presence in the NHL to Sommers in any way doesn't work for me. Braun spent even less time in the AHL (43 games total), so again, you can't attribute him to Sommers. Irwin spent 2.25 seasons in the AHL. The .25 was due to the lock-out this year, and folks have been saying he deserved some NHL time since his first season. So again, I'm not sure that you can attribute his presence in the NHL to Sommers in any way.

As for Kaspar or other skilled forwards, by now there should have been more than 1 "borderline" player (Clowe) to make the NHL by now with as long as Sommers has been head coach down there. But there simply hasn't.
But cant some of be contributed to DW and his drafting ?

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