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Old
10-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #101
Fitzy
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.
The man said that Leetch, Richter, Kovalev were "The reasons we won"

And even if he meant to include Messier, which I don't know if he did, it makes the argument of who was more important kind of hard to quantify, considering we wouldn't have won without any of them. That puts them all in the crucial category which is hard to one-up.

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10-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #102
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I loved Naslund. I just wish he could've been more consistent. He won us game 1 vs. the Caps in 2009.

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10-08-2012, 01:28 PM
  #103
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Dubinsky was/is a fraud of a twenty goal scorer, having never scored more than nineteen with a goalie actually in the net, and the thing everyone seemed to love about him, that he "publicly called out Crosby" was little more than childish, immature whining, and I'm glad he's gone.

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10-08-2012, 01:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I loved Naslund. I just wish he could've been more consistent. He won us game 1 vs. the Caps in 2009.
Nazzy was very good for us.

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10-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Nazzy was very good for us.
He was a decent player, average to below average 2nd line player. I think some people just expected his numbers to return to his West Coast Express days.....

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Old
10-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Nazzy was very good for us.
The FO's plan to bring him in to replace Jagr's production was a failure from the start. Hossa was plan A, Jagr was plan B, Nazzy was plan C. If we hadn't singed Redden we could've afforded to keep both Jagr and Nazzy and things migth've been better.

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Old
10-08-2012, 02:08 PM
  #107
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Whenever the going got tough Zherdev disappeared.

Leetch was the best Ranger that I've seen--and that goes back to 1971-72.

The thing I liked about Naslund--is he could have stuck us for another year. His stats were below expectations but they weren't horrible. I think he realized his game was declining and he had enough pride left to leave with some grace.

Dubinsky is a 2nd line player on most teams. At least until last year he was a consistent 40+ point a season player and he wasn't that far off in a sub par year. He's hard working--can play in all situations and he's physical. Compared to Zherdev--Zherdev kills him on talent--both are inconsistent on scoring but Dubi at least when he's not scoring can do other things. However many empty net goals Dubi got--he was obviously then out on the ice at critical times--in the final minutes/seconds helping to protect a lead and that's because the coaching staff trusted him when a game was on the line.

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10-08-2012, 02:10 PM
  #108
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Never liked Drury, even before he became a Ranger. I don't know if I've ever seen the media and the fans swoon so much over such an average player. His time here ended just as I expected it would, unremarkably.

I wanted the Rangers to go hard after Kovalchuk when he was a free agent. I remember that was quite the debate around here at the time.

At the time, I didn't like the Gaborik signing at all because I just didn't think he could ever stay healthy. I was absolutely wrong on that.

I enjoyed Fleury's time here as a Ranger. I understand that he just added to the circus atmosphere that personified those teams but I just loved seeing a small guy play with that kind of fire and he was so dangerous on the PK.

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Old
10-08-2012, 02:14 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
The FO's plan to bring him in to replace Jagr's production was a failure from the start. Hossa was plan A, Jagr was plan B, Nazzy was plan C. If we hadn't singed Redden we could've afforded to keep both Jagr and Nazzy and things migth've been better.
Summer of 08 was terrible. Bad decision after bad decision starting with letting Jagr walk and basically handing his money to Redden. That was followed up by the Zherdev trade (right move but bad in hindsight) and the Voros and Rissmiller contracts. If Jagr won the Hart in 05-06 like he should have which would have triggered his option in 08-09, it would have been interesting to see what moves what have been made.

I also wasn't much of a Naslund fan but the guy put up goals plain and simple. It was the quietest 24 goals you'll ever see but it was still 24 goals.

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Old
10-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #110
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Im surprised by the amount of posters that liked Zherdev. Ive been watching the Rangers for over 20 years and he was, by far, the most infuriating player I've ever seen.

Boatloads of talent and absolutely zero backbone. No balls whatsoever.

The polar opposite type of player winning teams need.

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Old
10-08-2012, 03:04 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post

Leetch was the best Ranger that I've seen--and that goes back to 1971-72.
Leetch pre-injury, id say

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Old
10-08-2012, 03:12 PM
  #112
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Manny Malhotra. I thought it was a mistake to trade him. Turned into a solid checking forward that teams win with...

Tom Poti. I dont understand how and some fans liked him when he was here.


Dale Purinton. How did this guy ever make the NHL. Beyond useless

Bryan Berard. Was alright when he was here. Didn't deserve the carp he got.

Dave Karpa was horrible...very overrated


Kevin Hatcher was nothing like his brother..no heart grit and very soft.

Vladimir Malakhov over Mathieu Schneider was a very stupid move.

Brent Fedyk was garbage and old

Zedno Ciger only good thing was got the Rangers Mathew Barnaby

Igor Ulanov only good thing was getting the Rangers Pavel Bure

Petr Nedved wasn't bad but didn't live up to expectations


Trading Marc Savard was stupid when Wayne Gretzky retired. Savard should have been part of the rebuild.


Discuss

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Old
10-08-2012, 05:10 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Manny Malhotra. I thought it was a mistake to trade him. Turned into a solid checking forward that teams win with...

Tom Poti. I dont understand how and some fans liked him when he was here.


Dale Purinton. How did this guy ever make the NHL. Beyond useless

Bryan Berard. Was alright when he was here. Didn't deserve the carp he got.

Dave Karpa was horrible...very overrated


Kevin Hatcher was nothing like his brother..no heart grit and very soft.

Vladimir Malakhov over Mathieu Schneider was a very stupid move.

Brent Fedyk was garbage and old

Zedno Ciger only good thing was got the Rangers Mathew Barnaby

Igor Ulanov only good thing was getting the Rangers Pavel Bure

Petr Nedved wasn't bad but didn't live up to expectations


Trading Marc Savard was stupid when Wayne Gretzky retired. Savard should have been part of the rebuild.


Discuss
Malhotra was damaged goods thanks to the way the Rangers attempted to develop him, which was with no plan whatsoever. A truly ugly tug of war between the coach and GM. I get angry over that, but its not like I ever shed a tear when he left NY.

I agree with nearly everything else, although I dont think they are "unpopular opinions." I think most Ranger fans would agree that some of the worst players to dress for them in the last 15 years did indeed stink.

Disagree about Schneider though. I thought his play with the Rangers was respectable during a very dark time.

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Old
10-08-2012, 05:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Malhotra was damaged goods thanks to the way the Rangers attempted to develop him, which was with no plan whatsoever. A truly ugly tug of war between the coach and GM. I get angry over that, but its not like I ever shed a tear when he left NY.

I agree with nearly everything else, although I dont think they are "unpopular opinions." I think most Ranger fans would agree that some of the worst players to dress for them in the last 15 years did indeed stink.

Disagree about Schneider though. I thought his play with the Rangers was respectable during a very dark time.

i was basically saying it was a stupid move to choose Malakhov over Schneider...i wanted Schneider to stay here... very solid player when he was playing.....had a good career.

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Old
10-08-2012, 05:53 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Manny Malhotra. I thought it was a mistake to trade him. Turned into a solid checking forward that teams win with...

Tom Poti. I dont understand how and some fans liked him when he was here.


Dale Purinton. How did this guy ever make the NHL. Beyond useless

Bryan Berard. Was alright when he was here. Didn't deserve the carp he got.

Dave Karpa was horrible...very overrated


Kevin Hatcher was nothing like his brother..no heart grit and very soft.

Vladimir Malakhov over Mathieu Schneider was a very stupid move.

Brent Fedyk was garbage and old

Zedno Ciger only good thing was got the Rangers Mathew Barnaby

Igor Ulanov only good thing was getting the Rangers Pavel Bure

Petr Nedved wasn't bad but didn't live up to expectations


Trading Marc Savard was stupid when Wayne Gretzky retired. Savard should have been part of the rebuild.


Discuss
I think there is very little in this that would be considered unpopular.

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Old
10-08-2012, 06:21 PM
  #116
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At least in part the reason why the Rangers traded Marc Savard was he was a locker room problem. He matured afterwards.

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Old
10-08-2012, 07:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by egelband View Post
Leetch pre-injury, id say

Which injury? He broke both ankles early in his career.

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Old
10-09-2012, 10:25 PM
  #118
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These should get this thread going again.

Wanted to trade Boyle after his 20g season. But he has the highest save percentage amoung active forwards!
Wanted to trade Gaborik last summer regardless of his numbers. Not aggresive enough for me.
Want to trade Del Zotto before everybody catches on.
Loved listening to Jim Gordon and "the Whistle". They were histerical!
Really liked Domonic Moore. Would still take him back.
NHL has it out for the rangers. They love to sock it to us whenever there is an opportunity.
Think the salary cap should be 45 million and thats it. Players are making enough money.
Penalties should be called by the book. Enough of the slashing and hooking stuff that is let goe.

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Old
10-09-2012, 11:58 PM
  #119
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I love Jaromir Jagr and was upset when he was booed when he returned to the Garden. He turned this franchise around

I love Petr Prucha and feel he could be a good 3rd liner on this current Rangers team, who could contribute 20-25 goals.

I hate Renney for scratching Prucha

Hate Drury

Hated Dubinsky after his holdout. $4.2 million for a guy that can't score 20 goals a year with a goalie in the net. Good riddance

I liked Anisimov, Zherdev, and Christensen

Radek Dvorak. I thought they should have brought him back as a 3rd liner last year. Another favorite.

Staal is clearly the best DMan on the team

Lundqvist is the best goalie in Rangers history

Love Gaborik and could not begin to understand why people wanted to trade him.

Nash will be the best Rangers forward this year. if there is one.

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Old
10-10-2012, 01:13 AM
  #120
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I also found myself defending Christensen regularly although in retrospect i'm not entirely sure why I bothered.

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Old
10-13-2012, 04:15 AM
  #121
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Which injury? He broke both ankles early in his career.
Shoulder. He had a really good shot when he came up. After that he was great but he couldnt finish as well.

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:11 AM
  #122
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Brian Leetch was an elite, HOF player. But he wasn't quite as good as some people make him out to be, nor was even the best defenseman of his generation.

Mark Messier was the greatest Ranger ever. Not because of his stats, or even his talent. Rather, because he allowed the talent around him to grow into their abilities and tap into their potential.

Without Messier, Leetch and Richter are talented players who never quite hit their top levels (at least with the Rangers) and are both traded earlier in their careers.

The Rangers would've won the cup with Gartner and Amonte on the roster in 1994. I also think they would've won with Doug Weight. They would also have won at least another Cup with Weight/Amonte.

The 2004 purge, including the Leetch trade was necessary for this team to move on. It's a shame the pieces we got for Leetch didn't pan out, but it was the right move to make at the time.

Jaromir Jagr's time with the Rangers was overrated. Great individual accomplishment. In hindsight, not a very memorable time as a team. Noteworthy because it was the end of the dark years.

Poor drafting aside, Christian Dube and Manny Malhotra would've been solid players for us if we didn't screw it up.

Ryan Callahan has a very short shelf life in the NHL because of his style of play. He's going to be a player that gets very old, very fast.

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:30 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Jaromir Jagr's time with the Rangers was overrated. Great individual accomplishment. In hindsight, not a very memorable time as a team. Noteworthy because it was the end of the dark years.
.
I couldnt agree with this more. I've seen far too many people crediting Jagr with "turning the franchise around."

No - what he did was stop the death spiral, but I never viewed him as the guy that turned things around. He wasnt the kind of guy that would take younger players under his wing, etc. It just wasnt in his DNA.

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10-16-2012, 10:20 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're opinion is your opinion, but this is just not true. Read Losing the Edge. It tells you just how important Messier was a buffer between an insane Keenan and the rest of the team.
I did read that book. Your commnet sort of highlights what I was getting at which is that a large part of Messier's value (real or perceived) was "Leadership" which is inherently intangible.
Does Messier serving as a buffer between Keenan and the team have an impact to production on the ice? If so, how much? Neither of us can give a qualified answer to that.
Messier was a vital player on the team in 94 obviously, but was the 4th best player during the playoffs IMO. I think in Ranger lore he gets far more credit than maybe he deserves.
When I think Messier I think Jeter. Great Hall of Fame player but gets too much credit for the winning and NO blame whatsoever for the losing.
Those leadership/intabgibles associated with Mess and Jeter seem to get alot of play when the their team wins championships, but when Mess missed playoffs for seven straight years or when the Yanks go into a post season malaise they seem to fade into the woodwork.

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10-16-2012, 10:51 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
I did read that book. Your commnet sort of highlights what I was getting at which is that a large part of Messier's value (real or perceived) was "Leadership" which is inherently intangible.
You're acting as if Messier didn't produce on the ice.

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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Does Messier serving as a buffer between Keenan and the team have an impact to production on the ice? If so, how much? Neither of us can give a qualified answer to that.
It certainly impacted production on the ice. The team won despite an abusive, power hungry, egomaniac who's self-centered attempted power grab during the playoffs threatened to derail any Cup run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Messier was a vital player on the team in 94 obviously, but was the 4th best player during the playoffs IMO. I think in Ranger lore he gets far more credit than maybe he deserves.
Edge said it better than I could. Messier "allowed the talent around him to grow into their abilities and tap into their potential."


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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
When I think Messier I think Jeter. Great Hall of Fame player but gets too much credit for the winning and NO blame whatsoever for the losing.
Messier is a better individual performer than Jeter is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Those leadership/intabgibles associated with Mess and Jeter seem to get alot of play when the their team wins championships, but when Mess missed playoffs for seven straight years or when the Yanks go into a post season malaise they seem to fade into the woodwork.
I don't think that's the case at all. Messier's stint in Vancouver and his second stint here certainly diminish his legacy to a degree. Messier is not bullet proof at all. Nobody will look back on his second run with the Rangers fondly. But what he did his first time here can't be overstated.

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