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Canucks Management and Ownership thread part 43

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Old
08-09-2017, 01:42 PM
  #1
carrotshirt
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Canucks Management and Ownership thread part 43

Last one went over by quite a bit, here's a new one!

I'm not thrilled with this regime, but I'm hopeful that we've turned a corner and will be looking more to the future instead of trying to 'compete' with our woeful roster.

Hopefully we can flip Gudbranson for futures at the trade deadline.

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08-09-2017, 03:15 PM
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Wo Yorfat
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Frankie. Trevor. Jimbo. Delorme.

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08-09-2017, 03:27 PM
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News alert....Aquaman just signs Benning to a 10 year contract extension!


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08-09-2017, 04:11 PM
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valkynax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrotshirt View Post
Last one went over by quite a bit, here's a new one!

I'm not thrilled with this regime, but I'm hopeful that we've turned a corner and will be looking more to the future instead of trying to 'compete' with our woeful roster.

Hopefully we can flip Gudbranson for futures at the trade deadline.
I have yet to see any solid indication that this pathetic pack of losers and liars had turned a corner. Their moves since TDL had been ambiguous to say the best. Still not a single extra pick obtained.

My best guess is these incompetent lunatics are still knee deep in their delusions, and only made a couple of so-so moves in order to shut the fans up for now.

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08-09-2017, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by valkynax View Post
I have yet to see any solid indication that this pathetic pack of losers and liars had turned a corner. Their moves since TDL had been ambiguous to say the best. Still not a single extra pick obtained.

My best guess is these incompetent lunatics are still knee deep in their delusions, and only made a couple of so-so moves in order to shut the fans up for now.
The only extra pick obtained from the last draft was as a result of Gilligan.

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08-12-2017, 07:23 PM
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Henrik said the team can fight for the playoffs, again, like last season. I don't think he has much credibility on this issue, any more. Obviously, he has to say something but claiming the team will be in the hunt is stretching things too far. Canucks will suck and everybody knows it. The Captaincy is not a management position, although he might feel compelled to give some sort of value for his contract.

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08-13-2017, 05:03 AM
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F A N
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Henrik said the team can fight for the playoffs, again, like last season. I don't think he has much credibility on this issue, any more. Obviously, he has to say something but claiming the team will be in the hunt is stretching things too far. Canucks will suck and everybody knows it. The Captaincy is not a management position, although he might feel compelled to give some sort of value for his contract.
The Canucks were"in the hunt" the two years until after the all star break where the Canucks pretty much went on an epic tank/the wheels fell off. If Henrik believes that the team can fight for the playoffs for at least half of the season instead of being out of it like Colorado was last season, then I think he is right. The captaincy, among other things, involves rallying the team. A captain who tells his teammates that they are just going to lose and finish in the bottom of the standings again shouldn't be captain.

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08-13-2017, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by valkynax View Post
Their moves since TDL had been ambiguous to say the best. Still not a single extra pick obtained.
Well they traded down to obtain extra picks at the draft. Not counting that, how many teams have acquired extra picks since the TDL that wasn't related to the expansion draft?

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08-13-2017, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
Well they traded down to obtain extra picks at the draft. Not counting that, how many teams have acquired extra picks since the TDL that wasn't related to the expansion draft?
Not sure why you would exclude in anything expansion draft related, as far as i am concerned the Canucks were allowed to make deals with Vegas or any other team during that time as well. And with some creativity you could link any off-season deal till the Expansion Draft to that - "they only traded player A to make room on their protect list" - in that case the obvious answer is zero teams.

Anyway, here you go:
Chicago (Darling trade)
LA (Bishop)
Minnesota (Graovac)
Philly (Cousins, Schenn)
San Jose (Mueller)
Arizona (Smith)
Montreal (Beaulieu)
Florida (Smith - to Vegas but no expansion draft considerations involved)
Vegas (Schlemko, Methot)
Rangers (Stepan)
Isles (Hamonic)


So thats 11 teams, more than a third of the league.

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08-13-2017, 06:54 AM
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Not sure why you would exclude in anything expansion draft related, as far as i am concerned the Canucks were allowed to make deals with Vegas or any other team during that time as well. And with some creativity you could link any off-season deal till the Expansion Draft to that - "they only traded player A to make room on their protect list" - in that case the obvious answer is zero teams.

Anyway, here you go:
Chicago (Darling trade)
LA (Bishop)
Minnesota (Graovac)
Philly (Cousins, Schenn)
San Jose (Mueller)
Arizona (Smith)
Montreal (Beaulieu)
Florida (Smith - to Vegas but no expansion draft considerations involved)
Vegas (Schlemko, Methot)
Rangers (Stepan)
Isles (Hamonic)


So thats 11 teams, more than a third of the league.
So, what trades would you have made and with whom?

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08-13-2017, 07:22 AM
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So, what trades would you have made and with whom?
Dont know why you are directing this at me as I was only following up the question asked by F A N. Anyhow, it is likely there were options. Be it Gudbranson or maybe Sutter, they could have also tried to sell high on Granlund. Some suggested Tanev.

So far, only the Burrows deal remains the only true rebuild move considering they traded Hansen only because of the expansion draft. There might be more in the future but that remains to be seen but that Benning apparently tried to trade Gudbranson for Demers points towards them still trying to be "competitive".

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08-13-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by valkynax View Post
I have yet to see any solid indication that this pathetic pack of losers and liars had turned a corner. Their moves since TDL had been ambiguous to say the best. Still not a single extra pick obtained.

My best guess is these incompetent lunatics are still knee deep in their delusions, and only made a couple of so-so moves in order to shut the fans up for now.

Would you have preferred a draft pick instead of Dahlen?

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08-13-2017, 07:49 AM
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Would you have preferred a draft pick instead of Dahlen?
Was the Burrows trade the only option to acquire draft picks?

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08-13-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
The Canucks were"in the hunt" the two years until after the all star break where the Canucks pretty much went on an epic tank/the wheels fell off. If Henrik believes that the team can fight for the playoffs for at least half of the season instead of being out of it like Colorado was last season, then I think he is right. The captaincy, among other things, involves rallying the team. A captain who tells his teammates that they are just going to lose and finish in the bottom of the standings again shouldn't be captain.
If the only statistic one used to classify whether or not a team was "in the hunt" was points then I'd probably consider that person a casual hockey fan who doesn't take hockey all that seriously.

I'd tell that fan that if you did any type of serious analysis, you'd find the Canucks to be not even remotely "in the hunt" due to their absolutely terrible underlying statistics with the easiest ones to look at being their special teams.

I'd also tell that fan to ignore what they say on the radio because the media's business is to sell hope and not to portray what REALLY is going on.

But if that person wants to be a casual fan then who am I to convince them otherwise.

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08-13-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by F A N View Post
The Canucks were"in the hunt" the two years until after the all star break where the Canucks pretty much went on an epic tank/the wheels fell off. If Henrik believes that the team can fight for the playoffs for at least half of the season instead of being out of it like Colorado was last season, then I think he is right. The captaincy, among other things, involves rallying the team. A captain who tells his teammates that they are just going to lose and finish in the bottom of the standings again shouldn't be captain.
I was going to comment but the below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathonwy View Post
If the only statistic one used to classify whether or not a team was "in the hunt" was points then I'd probably consider that person a casual hockey fan who doesn't take hockey all that seriously.

I'd tell that fan that if you did any type of serious analysis, you'd find the Canucks to be not even remotely "in the hunt" due to their absolutely terrible underlying statistics with the easiest ones to look at being their special teams.

I'd also tell that fan to ignore what they say on the radio because the media's business is to sell hope and not to portray what REALLY is going on.

But if that person wants to be a casual fan then who am I to convince them otherwise.
Not to mention the 8 pts we had to start the season where we legit didn't even lead a single one of those games, the soft schedule or the games in hand. It ignores the story.

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08-13-2017, 05:45 PM
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If the only statistic one used to classify whether or not a team was "in the hunt" was points then I'd probably consider that person a casual hockey fan who doesn't take hockey all that seriously.
It takes pretty much takes a special kind of incompetence to be out of the hunt by Jan/Feb in any given season.

Whoop-dee-do. Benning isn't a complete moron. This is how low the bar is to the acolytes.

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08-13-2017, 07:41 PM
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"In the hunt" is the most deceptive phrase in hockey. All it means is you weren't in a playoff spot but not enough games had passed to be "out of it" either.

It's not an accomplishment so much as a natural outcome of a low-scoring 3-pt game league.

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08-14-2017, 07:06 AM
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Was the Burrows trade the only option to acquire draft picks?
Oh, did I say it was?

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08-14-2017, 09:04 AM
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The canucks were only in the hunt for those clinging to "lack of mathematical elimination" and failing to look at their trend in play.

There is a reason you can typically look at the standings at US Thanksgiving and see who the likely playoff teams will be. In any given year 13 or 14 of the 16 playoff teams are holding a playoff spot at that point. Good teams tend to be good from the start and bad teams are bad. The couple of spots open at that point don't tend to go to teams that are being outplayed most games. Realistically you could tell they were out of it by December.


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08-14-2017, 12:28 PM
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Yeah, the notion that we were 'competitive' or 'in the hunt' is ridiculous.

The nature of the current NHL with the huge amount of loser points and 3-point games is that pretty much every team is within 10 points of a playoff spot through game 60 of the season, except for monumentally terrible teams like Colorado was last year.

So yeah, we were '7 points out' after 50 games or whatever, and the pro-Canucks media outlets were trying to spin that as 'being competitive' and 'within reach of the playoffs' but the bottom line was that we were on pace to finish 10+ points out of a playoff spot (in a year where the point total needed to reach the playoffs was lower than usual) and that we were in that position with the 28th-best goal differential, 30th-best total in terms of time led in games, and bottom-5 special teams. We were an awful team right from the word go.

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08-14-2017, 01:18 PM
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Yeah, the notion that we were 'competitive' or 'in the hunt' is ridiculous.

The nature of the current NHL with the huge amount of loser points and 3-point games is that pretty much every team is within 10 points of a playoff spot through game 60 of the season, except for monumentally terrible teams like Colorado was last year.

So yeah, we were '7 points out' after 50 games or whatever, and the pro-Canucks media outlets were trying to spin that as 'being competitive' and 'within reach of the playoffs' but the bottom line was that we were on pace to finish 10+ points out of a playoff spot (in a year where the point total needed to reach the playoffs was lower than usual) and that we were in that position with the 28th-best goal differential, 30th-best total in terms of time led in games, and bottom-5 special teams. We were an awful team right from the word go.
Yep. The tank thread was pretty funny though. After our soft part of the schedule was over, all the Benning supporters came in and started ridiculing us and us tankers just them as we knew better.

The best part was the epic collapse after the TDL and when Arizona caught us and then passed us in the standings...F***ing good times and I was so happy!

GO TEAM TANK again this year and a nice 0-9 start to the season would be sweet!

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08-14-2017, 01:40 PM
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So yeah, we were '7 points out' after 50 games or whatever, and the pro-Canucks media outlets were trying to spin that as 'being competitive' and 'within reach of the playoffs' but the bottom line was that we were on pace to finish 10+ points out of a playoff spot (in a year where the point total needed to reach the playoffs was lower than usual) and that we were in that position with the 28th-best goal differential, 30th-best total in terms of time led in games, and bottom-5 special teams. We were an awful team right from the word go.
Hah, that was about the time someone in the media ran a WD for Jack Adams poll, I believe. Didn't last long.

And you really didn't even need to look at the underlying stats to realize the team was bad. You just needed to watch the games ... it was awful.

I know a lot of people tuned out because the hockey was so damn boring, but it was readily apparent that the team wasn't winning in a particularly sustainable way. The stats obviously back it up, but it's crazy how some media members were about playoffs at that point when you just had to watch the games to realize the roster was badly put together, poorly coached, and broadly terrible.

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08-14-2017, 01:45 PM
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Would you have preferred a draft pick instead of Dahlen?
I don't see a preference for either one, and I don't know Dahlen enough to make any conclusions.

My point is, moves made by these bumbling buffoons are NOT solid prove that they learned their mistake and is embracing a real rebuild. And given how full of **** these idiots have been in the past I remain extremely skeptical that they actually want a rebuild. They most likely did these moves to make the fans shut up while buying themselves some borrowed time to continue their journey of delusion and sheer lunacy.

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08-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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I don't see a preference for either one, and I don't know Dahlen enough to make any conclusions.

My point is, moves made by these bumbling buffoons are NOT solid prove that they learned their mistake and is embracing a real rebuild. And given how full of **** these idiots have been in the past I remain extremely skeptical that they actually want a rebuild. They most likely did these moves to make the fans shut up while buying themselves some borrowed time to continue their journey of delusion and sheer lunacy.
I gotta say that I fully agree with you...I don't trust these idiots one bit! It would not surprise me at all if they pulled off these resent moves just to shut the fans up(and it looks like it worked) so they could carry on with their delusion!

Their so f***ing arrogant it makes me sick!

I'll be listening to their comments quite closely during the preseason and leading up to the start and I swear to god if I hear the words "we believe we're a playoff team" I'm going to lose it

If we hear those words then look for OJ and Dahlen being gifted a roster spot and this regime continuing rushing prospects into the lineup. Now before anybody jumps all over me and wants to start a argument that if they play great in the preseason then they earned it...I don't care! I believe both are close but still not ready. Another year of development will greatly benefit them and us long term.

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