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12'/13' Marlies Part I|12-8-0-1|Matt Frattin Appreciation Thread.

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10-30-2012, 08:13 AM
  #426
John-Eric Iannicello
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Do Krys Kolanos, Quintain Laing and Joe Callahan cover up Calgarys prospects?

Do TJ Hensick, Derek Nesbitt, Adam Cracknell, Andrew Murray, and Mike McKenna cover up St. Louis's Prospects?

Do Marc Mancari, Nick Tarnasky, and Kevin Porter cover up Buffalo's prospects?

Do Tristan Grant, Nathan Paetsch, Jeff Hogan, and Brennan Evans cover up Detroit's prospects?

...etc...etc...

Do they fill holes? Sure. But I don't think it's any different than any other AHL team (some have more vets, some have more youth..it changes every year).

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10-30-2012, 08:13 AM
  #427
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The lockout is really taking it's toll...

I have no problem with Burke bringing in players that will help the Marlies. I think that building a winning farm team will help our prospects learn not only what it is like to win, but also learn what it takes to win. Plus, if a guy like Ranger gets it together and makes the big club, then it's only a bonus.

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10-30-2012, 08:15 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by headwire View Post
The lockout is really taking it's toll...

I have no problem with Burke bringing in players that will help the Marlies. I think that building a winning farm team will help our prospects learn not only what it is like to win, but also learn what it takes to win. Plus, if a guy like Ranger gets it together and makes the big club, then it's only a bonus.
Good post. I can see this as being a positive for the young Leafers.

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10-30-2012, 08:17 AM
  #429
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Well, our prospects carried the Marlies to the Calder Cup finals and had we been healthy, possibly a championship. These guys were brought in to strengthen the team in different aspects.

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10-30-2012, 08:21 AM
  #430
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Not sure if it was posted, but Mirtle said yesterday that Komarov may go back to Europe if the NHL season is cancelled for the year.

I think it's a win-win situation. We need roster spots to open up, and Komarov probably doesn't benefit that much from playing in a development league.

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10-30-2012, 08:21 AM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headwire View Post
The lockout is really taking it's toll...

I have no problem with Burke bringing in players that will help the Marlies. I think that building a winning farm team will help our prospects learn not only what it is like to win, but also learn what it takes to win. Plus, if a guy like Ranger gets it together and makes the big club, then it's only a bonus.
It's as simple as this. Winning, at any level in your organization, is important, and just because there are some veterans on the team who help make that push doesn't take anything away from that, and doesn't take anything away from what it means for the prospects we do have on the team to get a piece of that winning culture.

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10-30-2012, 08:23 AM
  #432
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It's all about creating a winning environment for our prospects, and helping them learn what it takes to win. There's nothing wrong with having a successful farm team.

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10-30-2012, 08:41 AM
  #433
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Not sure if you are saying he's dogging it? If he wanted he could be better?

15 shots zero goals.

2012-13 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 6 Points 3
2011-12 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 48 Points 40
2010-11 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 44 Points 41

Our expectations should be much greater than a PPG this season. We keep hearing good things about how he is playing, so anything less than PPG will be a huge disappointment for his fans. This is his third year in the AHL, he should be dominating if we expect he's going to be a top 6 NHL player. Blaming his linemates doesn't account for his shooting percentage.
I wouldn't be too worried those are close to PPG. However yes he should be able to increase able to match it more, he's getting there though, that's for sure.
I believe his PPG is .85 in the AHL atm. Respectable but let's hope he increases to greater bounds this time around.

If this persists in mid November...then hell yes we have some serious issues.

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10-30-2012, 08:45 AM
  #434
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Very few teams have enough prospects to compete in the AHL without veterans and leadership.

Frattin and Gardiner for example wouldn't be in the AHL anyway, and odds are Holzer and Komarov wouldn't be there either.

Lock-out is impacting the opportunities not the veterans signed to play in the AHL.

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10-30-2012, 08:53 AM
  #435
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If our prospects can't fight through veteran AHL competition to win a spot on the Marlies, how are they going to fight through veteran NHL competition to win a spot on the Leafs?

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10-30-2012, 09:02 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Not sure if you are saying he's dogging it? If he wanted he could be better?

15 shots zero goals.

2012-13 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 6 Points 3
2011-12 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 48 Points 40
2010-11 Regular Season Toronto Marlies Games 44 Points 41

Our expectations should be much greater than a PPG this season. We keep hearing good things about how he is playing, so anything less than PPG will be a huge disappointment for his fans. This is his third year in the AHL, he should be dominating if we expect he's going to be a top 6 NHL player. Blaming his linemates doesn't account for his shooting percentage.


again ur being too hard on kadri,
where did he/I blame his linemates? he has been dominating, the puck is not going in.

he is playing safe, if he did try those things more, what if he turned those pucks anymore, you guyz would be like "he still has not learned, bust!!!!!!
we should be happy that he is now knowing danger, and playing safe when he needs to. lets go nazem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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10-30-2012, 09:08 AM
  #437
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My conspiracy theory...

The extra help was brought in to bolster the team. In an impending lockout year, the MLSE needs to maximize profitability. If there is a poor product on the ice, the fans simply will not come out. We went to the calder cup finals, were injury ravaged and got swept. We had a team that could have won (last year). In a lockout year, the competition goes up with the young guns being sent down. With AHL competition rising, our roster needed to be improved.

I feel that we have too many vets. The team needs to focus on playing a top 6 bottom 6. We have too many players and have not been able to consistantly run our young guns in the most important situations. IMO we are sheltering our prospects far too much. When they are having a bad stretch i feel we need to leave it up to them to get out of it. We need them to face their trials and tribulations in the AHL in order to be successful in the NHL.

Obviously the teams intent is to not give anyone entitlement to their possition. However i personally feel that a little wear and tear and hardship is only going to make them better and give them more perserverance.

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10-30-2012, 09:08 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
This is a new and interesting debate going on.

Were these players brought here (and Zigo re-signed) in order to make our team look better? Are they here to make our team of prospects look better? What would be the purpose of having a winning farm team when it doesn't help the big club in the long run?

Is this more "window dressing" by Burke?
Stinks like another anti-Burke thread!!!! Name me an AHL team that doesn't have veterans. The fact that you contribute this to Burke attempting some kind-of cover up is ridiculous and insulting.

Personally I would have played Zigo last year on the bottom line somewhere. He never got a fair shake.

Prospects learning from vets is a vital stage in there development and a well-used part of the process. Prospects can learn from their experience and as for the winning aspect - that really adds to their development as well.

Name another AHL team that doesn't do the exact same thing and then you can mentiion Burke "window-dressing"

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10-30-2012, 09:10 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
again ur being too hard on kadri,
where did he/I blame his linemates? he has been dominating, the puck is not going in.

he is playing safe, if he did try those things more, what if he turned those pucks anymore, you guyz would be like "he still has not learned, bust!!!!!!
we should be happy that he is now knowing danger, and playing safe when he needs to. lets go nazem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obviously, he is learning and has a ways to go before he'll be ready for the NHL. It appears from what we're hearing, he's playing well but cannot do both offense and defense, so he's so worried about defense to the point that he cannot produce.

There is nothing wrong with putting in the time to learn the trade in the minors. Perhaps we should stop suggesting he is too good for that league, that he should be in the NHL and let him actually develop that game where he can both be responsible defensively and know when he can go on the attack.

Perhaps he should have been playing 4th. line center in the NHL like the Flames did with Horak last year. I'm sure everyone would have been screaming that he was being misused. Perhaps Horak is just a smarter player, as it does not look like playing defense in the NHL took anything away from his offense in the AHL.

You watch Kadri play and you can see the skill there, it is only a matter of time until he figures it out.

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10-30-2012, 01:27 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
again ur being too hard on kadri,
where did he/I blame his linemates? he has been dominating, the puck is not going in.

he is playing safe, if he did try those things more, what if he turned those pucks anymore, you guyz would be like "he still has not learned, bust!!!!!!
we should be happy that he is now knowing danger, and playing safe when he needs to. lets go nazem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets be real here...He is playing well and should have a few more points than he does, but he is not dominating.

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10-30-2012, 01:35 PM
  #441
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Yeah... Kadri is certainly not dominating. The first game of the season, he was fantastic.

Since then, an average player on the ice.

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10-30-2012, 03:18 PM
  #442
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Yeah... Kadri is certainly not dominating. The first game of the season, he was fantastic.

Since then, an average player on the ice.


I guess the last game he was average but games before he was awesome, i think ur watching something else

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10-30-2012, 04:28 PM
  #443
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I guess the last game he was average but games before he was awesome, i think ur watching something else
To each their own, I suppose.

What I saw was Kadri getting the puck taken off him far too often. I saw him floating when he didn't have the puck. Also saw him being 'too safe' like Eakins said (though I don't blame him- management has messed with him biiiiig time). Didn't see anything that screamed 'wow' to me. His pass to Zigomanis was pretty, but nothing that you or I couldn't do.

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10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
This is a new and interesting debate going on.

Were these players brought here (and Zigo re-signed) in order to make our team look better? Are they here to make our team of prospects look better? What would be the purpose of having a winning farm team when it doesn't help the big club in the long run?

Is this more "window dressing" by Burke?
More about veteran leadership, IMO. Its tough when your team is full of young guys. You need that veteran leadership to help the younger guys get through situations. Plus, the younger players are really influenced by the veterans and if they (the veterans) have a good attitude, work ethic etc it can only be positive.

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10-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #445
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Hopefully Kadri is traded to a team who has a fanbase and management that appreciates his skills and whose management doesn't continually try to make him into something he is not.

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10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
  #446
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Not sure if it was posted, but Mirtle said yesterday that Komarov may go back to Europe if the NHL season is cancelled for the year.

I think it's a win-win situation. We need roster spots to open up, and Komarov probably doesn't benefit that much from playing in a development league.
The dudes leaving some serious cash on the table to chase his nhl dream. I'd be about ready to pack my suitcases and leave this gongshow too. Call me when the lockout's over

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10-31-2012, 08:56 AM
  #447
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So for Kadri would you have been okay if the Leafs gave him the Horak treatment?

Horak was used about 10 minutes a night as a 4th. line center in the NHL last year.

So far this year he's scored about 6 AHL goals.

His coach says he'll play any position, do anything he's asked.

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10-31-2012, 09:55 AM
  #448
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So for Kadri would you have been okay if the Leafs gave him the Horak treatment?

Horak was used about 10 minutes a night as a 4th. line center in the NHL last year.

So far this year he's scored about 6 AHL goals.

His coach says he'll play any position, do anything he's asked.
Well hasn't kadri done the same thing? He's been alternating between wing and center.

Also I am not a fan of that at all. It didn't do well for Nino Niederriter nor did it do good for Ryan Johansen.

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10-31-2012, 10:09 AM
  #449
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If our prospects can't fight through veteran AHL competition to win a spot on the Marlies, how are they going to fight through veteran NHL competition to win a spot on the Leafs?
It's not Kadri, Colborne, or Ashton who are losing their roster spots to veterans, it's the guys like D'amigo, Ryan, and Ross who are.

D'amigo, Ryan, and Ross are the ones who will not be competing for roster spots on the Leafs, it's the guys like Kadri, Colborne, and Ashton. However, it does not mean that development isn't equally as essential to the second-tier guys.

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10-31-2012, 10:15 AM
  #450
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It's not Kadri, Colborne, or Ashton who are losing their roster spots to veterans, it's the guys like D'amigo, Ryan, and Ross who are.

D'amigo, Ryan, and Ross are the ones who will not be competing for roster spots on the Leafs, it's the guys like Kadri, Colborne, and Ashton. However, it does not mean that development isn't equally as essential to the second-tier guys.
Don't put too much thought into it, when the road games start they will get their chances.

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