HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

The Battle of Ontario!

View Poll Results: Better team over next 10 years - Ott vs Tor
Sens Fan Voting Ottawa 63 26.92%
Ottawa 128 54.70%
Leafs Fan Voting Toronto 24 10.26%
Leafs 19 8.12%
Voters: 234. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2012, 10:00 PM
  #101
Orr123
Registered User
 
Orr123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Lehner will have a great season this year. Last year he had a Calder Cup hangover, and was pissed at not getting the backup spot. He played his best hockey right after Bishop showed up. He is a little too prone to emotional highs and lows so having Bishop will get and keep his attention.
Lehner is one of those guys that had a bit of growing up to do. I do think he's done that, and I think having Bishop there will push him. Lehner thrives on pressure, and it has been quite apparent. If he learns to bring the same intensity to lesser games, he will. A gem.
And sens have been very direct with him. I'm excited to watch him his year.

Orr123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 10:04 PM
  #102
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
He played his best hockey right after Bishop showed up.
OCT: .927
NOV: .900
DEC: .901
JAN: .904
FEB: .887
MAR: .916
APR: .899

when did Bishop show up again?

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 10:09 PM
  #103
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,039
vCash: 50
actually, kadri and lehner are the same age.

lehner gets the benefit of the doubt for last season because of
a) his Calder Cup MVP at 19
b) he was our best goalie in the NHL this year, when andy went down with a kitchen knife injury he was spectacular.
c) he's a goalie. Goalies arnt expected to develop that fast.

zibanejad (who should be added to this group if we're being completely honest) gets the benefit of the doubt because
a) WJC
b) in both the NHL and SEL, he played a very limited role

colbourne doesnt get the benefit of the doubt anymore because
a) it's been four seasons now. Injuries or not, time is running out.
b) he always had an NHL body. The hope was that the rest of his game would develop. It hasnt materialized yet.

kadri doesnt get the benefit of the doubt because:
a) the toronto media is stupid
b) the toronto maple leafs handling of him has been stupid.
(i think he gets a lot of unfair criticism, if it isnt clear. Yes he's not where most would like him to be at this point, but for HF to drop him out of their top-50 this fall (silfverberg dropped 5 spots due to new arrivals, for comparison kadri dropped at least 15 - and both played 0 games all summer) makes no sense -as an example.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 10:33 PM
  #104
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chiddler View Post
Joe Colborne has the potential to be a number 1 center
I disagree completely. I think Colborne's top potential is a second line center, but I'm not sure he even reaches that.

He got drafted in 2008. It's been four full years since then, and he hasn't done anything. The only things he has to his name is a good year in College, and an AHL hot streak. You could say the same for a lot of prospects. The guy has a huge body and is creative with the puck, but he's soft as butter.

He has to start actually showing he's here to game. Can't keep giving him a free pass here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
phew. that makes me feel better about kadri and colborne.

Colborne played half the season needing wrist surgery and nearly severed his finger near the end of the year, while kadri like lehner is super-emotional and sulked after Wilson dicked him around last year.......so it's nice to know that I can just assume they'll be awesome next year anyways.

nice to know.
Lehner >> Kadri at this time. What has Kadri done since he was drafted? He had a really solid pre-season with the Leafs following his draft year, but since then, he hasn't done much at all. He hasn't been able to stick in the NHL while the 2009 draft is starting to come up. He's recently been called out by his coach saying he's lazy and out of shape.

Lehner is a beast. He can go too far at times, but he can use his emotion to reach a whole new level. When Binghamton won the Calder Cup, Lehner won the MVP. Only three times has a teenaged goaltender won the MVP of a Calder Cup run - Patrick Roy, Carey Price and Robin Lehner.

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 10:51 PM
  #105
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
actually, kadri and lehner are the same age.

lehner gets the benefit of the doubt for last season because of
a) his Calder Cup MVP at 19
I think they've given the MVP to the Cup winning goalie like 7 of the last 10 times, but still, it's a nice accomplishment for sure.

Quote:
b) he was our best goalie in the NHL this year, when andy went down with a kitchen knife injury he was spectacular.
he had a nice 5 games, true. Colborne had a nice 10-game stint in the NHl this year, too.

Quote:
c) he's a goalie. Goalies arnt expected to develop that fast.
fair enough. still a step back, though.

Quote:
zibanejad (who should be added to this group if we're being completely honest) gets the benefit of the doubt because
a) WJC
b) in both the NHL and SEL, he played a very limited role
WJC he was good not great, and yes he's had a very limited role in the pro leagues. Some might say he's even been dissappointing in those pro leagues.

Quote:
colbourne doesnt get the benefit of the doubt anymore because
a) it's been four seasons now. Injuries or not, time is running out.
b) he always had an NHL body. The hope was that the rest of his game would develop. It hasnt materialized yet.
Well he played pretty dang well from being traded to the Marlies up until he was injured around christmas - 39pts in 43 AHL games, and 6pts in 11 NHL games - but I'm not one to make excuses for my guys. He's got plenty of proving to do.


Quote:
kadri doesnt get the benefit of the doubt because:
a) the toronto media is stupid
b) the toronto maple leafs handling of him has been stupid.
(i think he gets a lot of unfair criticism, if it isnt clear. Yes he's not where most would like him to be at this point, but for HF to drop him out of their top-50 this fall (silfverberg dropped 5 spots due to new arrivals, for comparison kadri dropped at least 15 - and both played 0 games all summer) makes no sense -as an example.
well we don't have to worry about the HF list, we know that.

It's funny because I actually like the Sens prospects - I've got Stone, Noesen, Lehner (and Runblad) in my keeper league......I just think you guys are pushing a little hard on them. All of the forward prospects you mentioned have a ways to go to even become quality top-6 NHL forwards, let alone 1st line or star ones....and I have a hunch that many sens fans will be a wee bit dissappointed when these guys don't immediately light up the AHL.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:01 PM
  #106
The Chiddler
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I disagree completely. I think Colborne's top potential is a second line center, but I'm not sure he even reaches that.

He got drafted in 2008. It's been four full years since then, and he hasn't done anything. The only things he has to his name is a good year in College, and an AHL hot streak. You could say the same for a lot of prospects. The guy has a huge body and is creative with the puck, but he's soft as butter.

He has to start actually showing he's here to game. Can't keep giving him a free pass here.
Last year was his 2nd year in the AHL, it's not like he's been toiling there for years. He played bad on an awful Providence squad but after he was traded to the Leafs he's been a pretty productive player for the marlies. He played great last year until his injury, which was a lot worse then most people think. http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...iddled-season/

I don't really think we're giving him a free pass with anything, we're willing to wait and see how he plays this year now that he's healthy and has another year under his belt, like any other fan base would. The kid's 22 years old, I didn't really expect him to be in the NHL by now did you? Guys his size tend to mature slower and I really don't think extra time in the AHL will hurt him.

The Chiddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:03 PM
  #107
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Lehner >> Kadri at this time. What has Kadri done since he was drafted? He had a really solid pre-season with the Leafs following his draft year, but since then, he hasn't done much at all. He hasn't been able to stick in the NHL while the 2009 draft is starting to come up. He's recently been called out by his coach saying he's lazy and out of shape.

Lehner is a beast. He can go too far at times, but he can use his emotion to reach a whole new level. When Binghamton won the Calder Cup, Lehner won the MVP. Only three times has a teenaged goaltender won the MVP of a Calder Cup run - Patrick Roy, Carey Price and Robin Lehner.
What has he done since being drafted?

Post-Draft CHL:

N.Kadri: 68gms, 44gls, 120pts, 131pim (82gms, 53gls, 145pts, 158pim)
R.Lehner: 52gms, 28-17-3, 2.94gaa, 5so, .913sv%

AHL

N.Kadri: 103gms, 38gls, 91pts, 107pim (82gms, 30gls, 73pts, 85pim)
R.Lehner: 83gms, 39-34-4, 2.83gaa, 8so, .916sv%

NHL

N.Kadri: 51gms, 8gls, 19pts, 16pim (82gms, 13gls, 31pts, 26pim)
R.Lehner: 13gms, 4-6-0, 2.81gaa, 1so, .910sv%

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:03 PM
  #108
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke

It's also interesting how willing Sens fans are to forgive Lehner for his poor season last year, when at the same time they're ready to write off any leafs prospects who had a bad year last year (like Kadri and Colborne, who are a whole 1 year older than Lehner).
Forwards typically develop faster than D-men, who typically develop quicker than goalies.

Lehner is a year and a half younger than Colborne and 10 months younger than Kadri.

Or put another way, Colborne is 4 months older than Erik Karlsson and Kadri is 4 months younger than Karlsson.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:06 PM
  #109
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,060
vCash: 500
Lehner also always plays well when he gets called up, so that memory of him lingers and we seem to forgive his play in the AHL easily, especially since he's young and was an MVP.

HavlatMach9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #110
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Lehner had one bad callup, and one great callup.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:40 PM
  #111
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,060
vCash: 500
How about we go back on topic -_-. When looking ahead to the next decade, I don't know how much players/prospects past performance matter, especially those who are role players or fringe 1st/2nd liners atm.

It's clear Leafs are missing a #1 center and a #1 goalie. If Luongo is acquired, they are a #1 center away from being a very good team. Though, obtaining a #1 isn't an easy task, how do leaf fans think they'll eventually acquire one?

HavlatMach9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:44 PM
  #112
LeafOfBread
van Dreamsdyk
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,119
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post



Lehner >> Kadri at this time. What has Kadri done since he was drafted? He had a really solid pre-season with the Leafs following his draft year, but since then, he hasn't done much at all. He hasn't been able to stick in the NHL while the 2009 draft is starting to come up. He's recently been called out by his coach saying he's lazy and out of shape.
Good god this is why I hate Toronto media, people should really stop taking it seriously. Kadri worked hard the entire summer with Roberts and is in good shape, he's looked very good in training camp and his skating and agility seems to have improved quite a bit from last year.

Eakins never said he was lazy, nor did he say he was out of shape, he simply commented on his body fat and that it needs to be lower. Eakins answered the questions foolishly too, but it's because he was asked directly about Nazem, he did not "call him out".

The funny thing is, Kadri's body fat is lower from last season. Body fat means nothing for hockey players too (unless it's abnormally high); it's something that is affected by many factors, like genetics. It's even been shown that people from certain regions naturally have higher body fat, like from Lebanon (Kadri's background). Doesn't mean jack all if he can still skate fast and has nice hands.

And he's actually progressing well. He's been playing at PPG in the AHL and was the leading scorer on the team in the Calder Cup Playoffs before he got injured, and is ahead of most of his draft class.

http://bleedingbluenwhite.blogspot.c...aft-class.html

LeafOfBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:50 PM
  #113
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
Dannish and I had a good discussion. I corrected him on a number of points, though he made a number of good points as well.

I guess we'll see how the prospects turn out, but I don't think I'll regret ranking the players where I did. We'll have a nice chance to see my 2nd tier guys Silfverberg, Lehner, Kadri, and Colborne all playing at similar ages at the same level thanks to the lockout starting in a week, so we should get a nice read on it pretty quick. my 3rd tier guys Owuya, Ashton, D'Amigo, McKegg, Ross, Blacker, DaCosta, Petersson, Stone, Prince, Wiercioch will all be there too. (Other 3rd tier guys Biggs, Percy, Noesen, Puempel are all to very nice starts in the CHL right now). From all reports everyone is healthy and ready to go so there won't be any excuses, either way.


Last edited by zeke: 10-10-2012 at 12:04 AM.
zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:52 PM
  #114
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,060
vCash: 500
Kadri is behind his expectations. The playoffs leading to that draft Kadri played well enough that Bryan Murry was considering taking him by trading up. Is it the case that he's not in the upper echelon of the draft because of his abilities or Leafs possible inability to develop prospects? There are only a few stand out players after Kadri so perhaps the draft was a bit weak? Or it's probably to early to tell.

HavlatMach9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 12:41 AM
  #115
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I just think you guys are pushing a little hard on them. All of the forward prospects you mentioned have a ways to go to even become quality top-6 NHL forwards, let alone 1st line or star ones....and I have a hunch that many sens fans will be a wee bit dissappointed when these guys don't immediately light up the AHL.
I don't speak for everyone, but I'm not expecting stars. I think a Michalek, Fisher, Foligno and 2 busts would be a pretty good outcome for our top-5 forward propects. It's just that with an average age of 20, I don't know who will become which. I mean, if we knew who the Daigle, Choiunard, Klepis, etc were going to be from an early age, great. For now though, the reason that we believe that we could develop 3 solid top6ers is because we have 5 pretty good forward propects.

trentmccleary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 09:25 AM
  #116
TheKeenKariya
OTF! OTB! HFB!
 
TheKeenKariya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gloucester, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Saw this video on youtube thought it was interesting. Also Sens are and will stay the better team for the next 10 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FNPqzymadU

TheKeenKariya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 09:30 AM
  #117
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
Saw this video on youtube thought it was interesting. Also Sens are and will stay the better team for the next 10 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FNPqzymadU
With BM drafting we will probably finish higher than the leafs and still draft better players.BB cant draft anything out of the top ten and even then you have to wonder


Last edited by topshelf15: 10-10-2012 at 09:37 AM.
topshelf15 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 10:13 AM
  #118
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
OCT: .927
NOV: .900
DEC: .901
JAN: .904
FEB: .887
MAR: .916
APR: .899

when did Bishop show up again?
Pretty obvious, Feb. March. It was Dorion that made the comment. I suspect he knows what he is talking about.

In the 7 games after Bishop showed up, he had a .922 save%

Just wanted to add that Zibanejad lead the WJC in Shots on Goal with 36 (11% shooting %). Stone for example had 23 and had a shooting % of 30%


Last edited by MoreGore: 10-10-2012 at 10:58 AM.
MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 03:29 PM
  #119
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
What has he done since being drafted?

Post-Draft CHL:

N.Kadri: 68gms, 44gls, 120pts, 131pim (82gms, 53gls, 145pts, 158pim)
R.Lehner: 52gms, 28-17-3, 2.94gaa, 5so, .913sv%

AHL

N.Kadri: 103gms, 38gls, 91pts, 107pim (82gms, 30gls, 73pts, 85pim)
R.Lehner: 83gms, 39-34-4, 2.83gaa, 8so, .916sv%

NHL

N.Kadri: 51gms, 8gls, 19pts, 16pim (82gms, 13gls, 31pts, 26pim)
R.Lehner: 13gms, 4-6-0, 2.81gaa, 1so, .910sv%
You missed the part where Lehner led the Binghamton Senators to a Calder Cup, posting a ridiculous .939 save%, 3 shutouts and stopped a penalty shot in an elimination game in OT. Oh - and he won the MVP of the AHL playoffs - the 3rd teen to do it along with Patrick Roy and Carey Price. I would crap tacks if the Sens traded Lehner for Kadri.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 04:44 PM
  #120
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 24,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Pretty obvious, Feb. March. It was Dorion that made the comment. I suspect he knows what he is talking about.

In the 7 games after Bishop showed up, he had a .922 save%

Just wanted to add that Zibanejad lead the WJC in Shots on Goal with 36 (11% shooting %). Stone for example had 23 and had a shooting % of 30%
Said it before and I'll say it again, he was regarded by the peolpe commenting on the game as the most dangerous shooter in the tournament. I'd argue Yak is a better shooter but the guy chose to pass all tournament.

If the tournament was done over, you could very well have seen Zibanejad lead the tournament in goals just based on the law of averages.

Get a taste at 13 seconds in...

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 04:23 AM
  #121
The Beyonder
Registered User
 
The Beyonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,765
vCash: 500
I find it kind of ridiculous how people are confidantly making assertions about which team will be better for the next 10 years... do you guys realize how long 10 years is? Jesus! Things can change drastically for either or both teams in the next couple of years, forget a decade.

The Beyonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 08:09 AM
  #122
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beyonder View Post
I find it kind of ridiculous how people are confidantly making assertions about which team will be better for the next 10 years... do you guys realize how long 10 years is? Jesus! Things can change drastically for either or both teams in the next couple of years, forget a decade.
100% correct. 10 years is far too long to project out. I therefore assumed 5-6 years was more appropriate.

The think about the Leafs is that they make very good trades. With the exception of the unnamed one they really have snookered a lot of other teams.

Garndiner, Lupul and Phaneuf are core type players and all were picked up for replacable pieces. If they could get the drafting/development thing figured out they would be way better.

---
I guess this tells me that their Pro scounting is their strength, while amateur scouting and player development are a bit behind.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 09:34 AM
  #123
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 24,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
100% correct. 10 years is far too long to project out. I therefore assumed 5-6 years was more appropriate.

The think about the Leafs is that they make very good trades. With the exception of the unnamed one they really have snookered a lot of other teams.

Garndiner, Lupul and Phaneuf are core type players and all were picked up for replacable pieces. If they could get the drafting/development thing figured out they would be way better.

---
I guess this tells me that their Pro scounting is their strength, while amateur scouting and player development are a bit behind.
Lupul and Gardiner were golden pick ups, especially considering what went the other way. Grabbing Phaneuf and naming him captain is part of the problem, IMO.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 10:03 AM
  #124
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Naming him captain perhaps....but he is very good defenseman.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2012, 10:12 AM
  #125
Samsquanch
Creep
 
Samsquanch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,308
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
You missed the part where Lehner led the Binghamton Senators to a Calder Cup, posting a ridiculous .939 save%, 3 shutouts and stopped a penalty shot in an elimination game in OT. Oh - and he won the MVP of the AHL playoffs - the 3rd teen to do it along with Patrick Roy and Carey Price. I would crap tacks if the Sens traded Lehner for Kadri.
This. To suggest Lehner hasnt accomplished anything since being drafted is willful blindness, especially when Zeke knows full well what he's done.

Lehner is one of the top goalie prospects in the world right now, and for good reason. It would take a whole lot of +++ for me to consider trading him for Kadri at this point in their careers. And Im not saying it will always be like this, Kadri still has the potential to be a good one, but it certainly is right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Said it before and I'll say it again, he was regarded by the peolpe commenting on the game as the most dangerous shooter in the tournament. I'd argue Yak is a better shooter but the guy chose to pass all tournament.

If the tournament was done over, you could very well have seen Zibanejad lead the tournament in goals just based on the law of averages.

Get a taste at 13 seconds in...
What a shot Very much like an NHL 09 glitch goal. Its a very desirable quality to have a player who isnt afraid to shoot the puck from anywhere/everywhere, especially if they have a killer shot.

Zibanejad gets crapped on all the time for his WJC and lackluster season in the SEL, even though as you point out his WJC stats could easily have swung the other way had his shooting % balanced out. And he did score the tournament winning goal in OT. Thats got to count for something.

And despite what people think, and aside from only playing 26 games due to injury, his production as an 18yr old in the SEL was exactly what you would expect in terms of ppg. Not to mention he was relagated to the 3rd line on the worst team in the SEL, who were relagated themselves. They dont give those good minutes to kids who will be leaving the next year.

Samsquanch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.