HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

How much money is the NHL losing due to the lockout?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2012, 12:31 AM
  #1
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
How much money is the NHL losing due to the lockout?

Just curious if anyone knows how much they are losing per day because of the lockout. I'm about to post a website for fun and need to calculate an estimate.

DPyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 12:50 AM
  #2
Lobotomizer*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,741
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
Just curious if anyone knows how much they are losing per day because of the lockout. I'm about to post a website for fun and need to calculate an estimate.
Please highlight Phoenix who is not losing 60 million to salary...

Lobotomizer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 12:57 AM
  #3
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,938
vCash: 133
I think I heard on TSN that losing the first week of games amounted to $100M in loses.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 01:37 AM
  #4
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,453
vCash: 500
IIRC, Daly reported that the cancelled pre-season games cost $100M in revenue - not profits.

Of that $100M, 57% would have gone to the players, so the League is out only $43M in net revenue - minus any operating costs they save by not having a training camp and playing the games.

kdb209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 01:59 AM
  #5
RippedOnNitro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
According to the NHL there is already a revenue loss of $100M for the exhibition games.

The cancelled first two weeks of regular season will ofcourse be a lot more. But no official word on the lost revenue yet.

RippedOnNitro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 05:41 AM
  #6
ottawah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
Just curious if anyone knows how much they are losing per day because of the lockout. I'm about to post a website for fun and need to calculate an estimate.
Probably, in terms of what it means to the lockout, the answer should be "significantly far less than the players".

But overall. Not much. I'd probably peg overall league losses in the 500M range for a year, but thats a gut instinct number based on probable numbers in the past plus expected costs of 10M per team if they do not play due to overhead. But a lot of that loss takes place in the playoffs, so the owners do not feel it now.

My best guess is Toronto, Montreal and NY Rangers are losing money (profit), and the rest of the teams are breaking even or generating less losses at the current time. As this drags on though teams like Chi, LA, FL, teams that would have made the playoffs are basically leaving money on the table.


This is why its tough to imagine the players winning. Only one team generates more profit than their payroll (Toronto) so roughly 91% of the players are losing more money than their team owners. Not a recipe for success ....

ottawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 06:48 AM
  #7
Sureves
Registered User
 
Sureves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 7,083
vCash: 500
Going by the Forbes numbers, $126.5 million will be lost in profit for the league as a whole.

However, if you combined the Leafs, Rangers, and Habs profits you get $170.9 million in income, or in other words, outside of those 3 teams, the NHL is not profitable. Outside of those 3 teams, they lose $44.4 million per year if the games are actually played.


Last edited by Sureves: 10-09-2012 at 04:54 PM.
Sureves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 11:29 AM
  #8
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
I thought I read somewhere that the league loses $900,000 per game not played. I already knew about the $100 million comment.

DPyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 01:17 PM
  #9
ottawah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the league loses $900,000 per game not played. I already knew about the $100 million comment.
Revenue in all likelyhood not profit.

ottawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 01:19 PM
  #10
ottawah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Going by the Forbes numbers, $126.5 million will be lost in profit for the league as a whole.

However, if you combined the Leafs, Rangers, and Habs profits you get $170.9 million in revenue, or in other words, outside of those 3 teams, the NHL is not profitable. Outside of those 3 teams, they lose $44.4 million per year if the games are actually played.
Yes, but remember there are overhead costs associated with the team (minor leagues, GM, coaches, skeleton staff, arena upkeep, etc) which do cost money.

It seems obvious though that the owners will lose more by not playing this year, and opposed to the last lockout when they lost a lot less by not playing. But how high is that number? Not sure, but its definitely far less than the players lose by not playing, and eventually that is probably what will turn negotiations around.

ottawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 02:16 PM
  #11
cheswick
Non-registered User
 
cheswick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,002
vCash: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Probably, in terms of what it means to the lockout, the answer should be "significantly far less than the players".

But overall. Not much. I'd probably peg overall league losses in the 500M range for a year, but thats a gut instinct number based on probable numbers in the past plus expected costs of 10M per team if they do not play due to overhead. But a lot of that loss takes place in the playoffs, so the owners do not feel it now.

My best guess is Toronto, Montreal and NY Rangers are losing money (profit), and the rest of the teams are breaking even or generating less losses at the current time. As this drags on though teams like Chi, LA, FL, teams that would have made the playoffs are basically leaving money on the table.


This is why its tough to imagine the players winning. Only one team generates more profit than their payroll (Toronto) so roughly 91% of the players are losing more money than their team owners. Not a recipe for success ....
$500 million for the year is probably a good estimate. Doug Maclean was the president of the Blue Jackets during the last lockout and said his owner had to write a check for $17 million to cover loses incurred that season (he didn't say if that was less of a loss vs what they incur playing the games). I believe he said his owner refused to lay anyone off so other teams loses would likely be less if they took cost cutting measures.

cheswick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 02:51 PM
  #12
GoCanes2013
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
Figure "average ticket price" X # of teams X games lost as a starter.
Add "average attendance" X "average concession spend" X # of teams X # of games lost as an adder
Add some # of merchandise bought each game X # of teams X # of games lost as well.
And the $100million number already cited.

No revenue kind of guarantees no profit. So tracking lost Revenue is a good start. Then you can split it by previous CBA split (57/43) to show NHLPA losses and NHL losses.

Then, try to determine how long it will take to recoup all the lost revenue, with proposed allocations even at 50/50, to highlight how stupid this standoff is.

GoCanes2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 03:24 PM
  #13
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 55,972
vCash: 500
Daly on HNIC radio today (about an hour ago) indicated that the league is expecting to lose about $140mm in the first two weeks of the season (or about $250mm cumulative from start of lockout).

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 05:16 PM
  #14
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
Ok...this is a complete guestimate so take the numbers with a grain of salt.

http://lockout2012.tk/

DPyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #15
GoCanes2013
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
Ok...this is a complete guestimate so take the numbers with a grain of salt.

http://lockout2012.tk/
+1

Well done. As you get more confirmed data the results will get more and more accurate.

GoCanes2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2012, 07:44 PM
  #16
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 500
At least all the teams are breaking even now. LOL

Confucius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 06:13 AM
  #17
ottawah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuhcbaB notnA View Post
No revenue kind of guarantees no profit. So tracking lost Revenue is a good start. Then you can split it by previous CBA split (57/43) to show NHLPA losses and NHL losses.
Not really because that does not paint an accurate picture of what the owners are really losing. Its accurate for the players, yes.

In any business revenue is easy to generate. Easy. Profit, thats an entirely different story. Company do not go into business to generate revenue, they want to generate profit. There is soft linkage between these for sure, but if you want to compare the real losses between the two you have to account for that.

ottawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 08:14 AM
  #18
bigd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
At least all the teams are breaking even now. LOL
This is what I don't get. They claim they are losing money when they are playing and now they are losing by not playing. Then they shouldn't have locked the players out. I think the owners are talking with their fingers crossed behind their backs.

bigd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 10:02 AM
  #19
ottawah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd View Post
This is what I don't get. They claim they are losing money when they are playing and now they are losing by not playing. Then they shouldn't have locked the players out. I think the owners are talking with their fingers crossed behind their backs.
They had t lock the players out, there really is no option otherwise. If they do not, then the players have zero reason to negotiate, and lets face it, they are not really trying to negotiate even after a lockout. And secondly, they can strike before the playoffs.

This time around the league has not said (to my knowledge) that they lose less by not playing. Everyone seems in agreement they are losing more by not playing. But its not the short loss these guys care about, its the losses that accumulate over years.

ottawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2012, 10:49 AM
  #20
bigd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,774
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
They had t lock the players out, there really is no option otherwise. If they do not, then the players have zero reason to negotiate, and lets face it, they are not really trying to negotiate even after a lockout. And secondly, they can strike before the playoffs.

This time around the league has not said (to my knowledge) that they lose less by not playing. Everyone seems in agreement they are losing more by not playing. But its not the short loss these guys care about, its the losses that accumulate over years.
As is the players, except the players have a short window to make their money and the owners window is up to them as how they manage their team and for how long they own it.

bigd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2012, 02:05 PM
  #21
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,311
vCash: 500
I updated the website base on these numbers.

DPyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-12-2012, 06:08 PM
  #22
AHockeyGameBrokeOut*
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
Just curious if anyone knows how much they are losing per day because of the lockout. I'm about to post a website for fun and need to calculate an estimate.
It's over 9000.

AHockeyGameBrokeOut* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.