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German-Austrian Hockey League: is it possible?

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Old
11-07-2014, 12:40 PM
  #1
EvilDead
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German-Austrian Hockey League: is it possible?

I have been pondering this idea for a while; in which the best 8 teams from Germany and the best 8 teams from Austria combined to create a Western/Central European Hockey league that could potentially stand up, in terms of quality, to the KHL (maybe not at first, but potentially over time). Not only that there could be room to expand and add teams from countries like Poland, Switzerland, and the Netherlands as well. Could it be a feasible idea?

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11-10-2014, 11:08 PM
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That's not a bad idea, but the DEL is definitely much better in terms of quality than the EBEL is. I do think that maybe the DEL should expand into the Netherlands and maybe Poland though, it'd be really cool to see that.

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11-11-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kopecky82 View Post
That's not a bad idea, but the DEL is definitely much better in terms of quality than the EBEL is. I do think that maybe the DEL should expand into the Netherlands and maybe Poland though, it'd be really cool to see that.
Most likely the two biggest Dutch teams will join the German Oberliga (3rd Tier) next year. As a result the top Dutch League will most likely shut down and a new league with the remaining Dutch teams together with Belgian teams will be established. However you will never see a Dutch team in the DEL, because local interest in hockey is close to zero and the local talent pool is very limited. It will be interesting to see how the top Dutch teams will compare to the 3rd tier semi-professional German teams. They play friendly games from time to time and they seem to match well with the Oberliga. But now you have to realize that the quality of play between the DEL and the Oberliga is gigantic.

When it comes to an DEL/EBEL combination I think Salzburg, Bozen, Vienna could be competitive in the DEL. But I doubt it will ever happen, the DEL is not interested in expanding to foreign markets. And with 14 teams and 52 games per team the DEL has found it's ideal size. Instead of expanding the next big project will be the reintroduction of relegation/promotion between the DEL and DEL2, which will come within the next 4 years.

What I would like to see is a different version of the CHL. Have a Northern European group (SWE, FIN, NOR, DEN) and a central european group (GER, SUI, CZ, AUT, SVK). The participants should only be the champions and runner-up.

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11-11-2014, 02:35 PM
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Purple hippo
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Originally Posted by cyberdork View Post
Most likely the two biggest Dutch teams will join the German Oberliga (3rd Tier) next year. As a result the top Dutch League will most likely shut down and a new league with the remaining Dutch teams together with Belgian teams will be established.
Please no, no, lets not go down this path again. Our league has just recently be "reset" and its going down the right direction, we should never destroy that just to join the Dutch again. If the two leagues want to work together in some sort of "league" where Belgium is a Conference, Netherlands is a Conference and we see each the other Conference every so often, perhaps just a home and away, then I would be ok with that. If they want to set up a major Cup, sort of like with the Coupe de la Ligue, ok, that would be fine.
We could even have sort of a Coupe de France and invite Tornado Luxembourg with aggregate or Best of 3 matches but please not a single league.

Herentals should really join Tilburg and likely Heerenveen in the Oberliga West. Staying in the make shaft Dutch league would be a disaster. They would have only Limburg to compete with if they even survive long enough. The rest would be a cake walk.

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Instead of expanding the next big project will be the reintroduction of relegation/promotion between the DEL and DEL2, which will come within the next 4 years.
Please yes, I love watching/following the DEL2 and its clear that the league has some great quality, even if they are making rules to reduce imports and add U-23 players to make room for German growth. I think the addition of the DEL2 has been great, especially when clubs are setting up the DEL-DEL2-Oberliga-DNL structure partnerships so youth players can move up the chain.
Even if the DEL doesnt offer automatic qualification and does what the NLA/NLB does, that would still be a step in the right direction.

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11-11-2014, 04:40 PM
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Urbanskog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdork View Post
Most likely the two biggest Dutch teams will join the German Oberliga (3rd Tier) next year. As a result the top Dutch League will most likely shut down and a new league with the remaining Dutch teams together with Belgian teams will be established. However you will never see a Dutch team in the DEL, because local interest in hockey is close to zero and the local talent pool is very limited. It will be interesting to see how the top Dutch teams will compare to the 3rd tier semi-professional German teams. They play friendly games from time to time and they seem to match well with the Oberliga. But now you have to realize that the quality of play between the DEL and the Oberliga is gigantic.
Do you have more information on this?

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11-11-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanskog View Post
Do you have more information on this?
During the past off-season, while the Dutch league couldnt get clubs to confirm their participation in the Eredivisie, it came out in Limburg TV L1 that clubs where looking to move over to the Oberliga.

It later came out that the club is Tilburg who has been making the most noise about joining and have asked the DEB, along with the LEV-NRW (organization who controls the Oberliga West) and they have all agreed they would be permitted to join. The second club, Heerenveen also wants to join but they didnt submit their application on time to be considered. The Dutch Federation responded to the rumours that Dutch clubs wanted to leave for Germany, they sort of backed the idea but said they couldnt do it this season due to the lack of clubs and the problems it would cause for this season.

Tilburg has taken the greatest steps to making the move, the Oberliga clubs have all pretty much agreed that bringing in the Dutch would be great for their league, however they demand that Tilburg adheres to the rules of the league. Which includes reducing the number of imports so this season the club has self imposed rules on themselves that they will dress the required number of imports according to Oberliga West rules.

This season there is suppose to be a Cup tournament between 3 clubs from the Oberliga West and the Eredivisie. Those being ESC Moskitos Essen, Herner EV the powerhouse EV Füchse Duisburg. But nothing have since but mentioned other than I believe Dolphin Kemphanen said they wont take part.

Tilburg and Heerenveen have sort of grown tired of the Eredivisie, they placed on ultimatum on the clubs during the off-season to make up their minds if they were playing in the league or not. They want to play against better competition, they want more matches and a more professional setting.

Funny enough, before Tilburg has even been accepted into the German ranks, their President already wants them into the DEL2. So atleast he has goals.

As cyberdork has kind of mentioned, losing the leagues best Dutch clubs would absolutely destroy the league and bring it down to just three, one of them Belgian. The rumour right now is that Kemphanen and Limburg would just merge into the Eerste divisie which is currently a 10 club league. Tilburg has said they will dress a second unit in the Eerste divisie and would keep their youth squads all in the Dutch system. Heerenveen, who is interested in leaving, has been pretty quiet about what they are going to do going forward.


Last edited by Purple hippo: 11-11-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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11-12-2014, 06:18 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Urbanskog View Post
Do you have more information on this?
All in Dutch:
http://www.nieuwsredactie.net/2014/0...naar-oberliga/
http://www.omroepbrabant.nl/?news/21...Duitsland.aspx
http://www.ijshockey.com/item/4962/a...-de-eredivisie

Basically the Dutch are very confident Heerenveen and especially Tilburg will play next season in the Oberliga West. They also handed in an official application. Of course there are still a whole bunch of questionmarks, but it seems more and more likely.

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11-12-2014, 06:30 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Purple hippo View Post
This season there is suppose to be a Cup tournament between 3 clubs from the Oberliga West and the Eredivisie. Those being ESC Moskitos Essen, Herner EV the powerhouse EV Füchse Duisburg. But nothing have since but mentioned other than I believe Dolphin Kemphanen said they wont take part.
Thanks for your informative post!

Regarding the cup the sport-director (GM?) of Duisburg said: "It would have been a great event, but unfortunately the Dutch didn't budge an inch regarding our scheduling wishes. Essen already canceled, we'll do the same and I expect Herne to do so as well."
Source

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11-12-2014, 06:43 AM
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Urbanskog
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Thank you for your insights. How does the promotion system between Oberliga and DEL2 work though?

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11-12-2014, 07:02 AM
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Thank you for your insights. How does the promotion system between Oberliga and DEL2 work though?
That seems to change every year.
At the moment there are 4 Oberligas. North (9 teams), West (8), East (7) and South (12). North and South are run by the DEB, West and East by the the regional organisations (LEV).

At the end of the season the first two teams of South will meet the North champion plus the champion of a pre-playoff between East and West. The winner of this final 4 playoff can promote to the DEL2. Although it can happen that they will not choose to promote, due to the additional financial burden that comes with a promotion.

The plan is to reduce the Oberliga to 3 or even just 2 'conferences' instead of the current 4, and have it all run by the DEB. However, I'm not sure how this should work out. Making the Oberliga less regional will only add more travel time for the teams. And since most players have a job, they would need to leave work very early to make it in time for the Friday night games.

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11-17-2014, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberdork View Post
When it comes to an DEL/EBEL combination I think Salzburg, Bozen, Vienna could be competitive in the DEL. But I doubt it will ever happen, the DEL is not interested in expanding to foreign markets. And with 14 teams and 52 games per team the DEL has found it's ideal size. Instead of expanding the next big project will be the reintroduction of relegation/promotion between the DEL and DEL2, which will come within the next 4 years.
Has quality dropped because of the lack of promotion/relegation? I come from the States where the NHL is king, so I don't know a whole lot about European hockey outside of the KHL.

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11-19-2014, 08:45 AM
  #12
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Has quality dropped because of the lack of promotion/relegation? I come from the States where the NHL is king, so I don't know a whole lot about European hockey outside of the KHL.
I don't think quality has dropped. The DEL is also still one of the most balanced hockey leagues. I think the lack of relegation/promotion has added stability, which is something very much needed in German hockey. DEL and DEL2 seem to be on a good path and will introduce rel./prom. between the leagues within 4 years. Everything below DEL2 it is still a BIG mess with leagues and playmodi changing almost on a yearly basis.

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01-26-2015, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by EvilDead View Post
I have been pondering this idea for a while; in which the best 8 teams from Germany and the best 8 teams from Austria combined to create a Western/Central European Hockey league that could potentially stand up, in terms of quality, to the KHL (maybe not at first, but potentially over time). Not only that there could be room to expand and add teams from countries like Poland, Switzerland, and the Netherlands as well. Could it be a feasible idea?
That is a really good idea. Since the teams are already relatively close because of the close proximity between the countries, the reduced travel alone would draw players to that league compared to the travel in the KHL.

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02-04-2015, 10:12 PM
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@Beranek Exactly what I was thinking. There are a couple of snags with my idea though such as the previously mentioned differences in talent level of the teams from Austria and Germany, as well as how divisions and conferences would be mapped out; among other things. But other than that, I think the idea of having a German-Austrian league (potentially a Eurozone league if teams from countries like Poland and the Netherlands are added in to the mix) would be an interesting experiment.

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02-09-2015, 12:51 AM
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If it was just combining the 2 leagues u could just have a German conference and Austrian conference I suppose. Then change it up if they ever got any Swiss teams or other nearby countries.

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02-18-2015, 11:32 PM
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@Benarek True.

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02-19-2015, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDead View Post
I have been pondering this idea for a while; in which the best 8 teams from Germany and the best 8 teams from Austria combined to create a Western/Central European Hockey league that could potentially stand up, in terms of quality, to the KHL (maybe not at first, but potentially over time). Not only that there could be room to expand and add teams from countries like Poland, Switzerland, and the Netherlands as well. Could it be a feasible idea?


I would start an european-league with eg. 8 teams, from at lest 5 different (could also more) countries, to test it. If the interest after 3 years for an european-league is given, then expand it to another countries/locations.

In regards of Locations:
Here I would prefer to have clubs from very-well-known cities, where the airport is nearby.

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03-18-2015, 07:53 AM
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I prefer 18 teams. 9 for every nation of this two. Austria is western and Germany are eastern. 8 x 4 matches. 32 matches plus 4 teams in Play Offs. Great league by two german sides.

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03-21-2015, 05:49 AM
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Personally I don't see the way for Europe to be creating more regional leagues. Either go Paneuropean or let it be. Also, on a first glimpse I can't see the advantages for either country but especially not for the DEL as I think the level is higher there.

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03-23-2015, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cyberdork View Post

What I would like to see is a different version of the CHL. Have a Northern European group (SWE, FIN, NOR, DEN) and a central european group (GER, SUI, CZ, AUT, SVK). The participants should only be the champions and runner-up.
That would be a great. The KHL is too remote to fill up this job, and their is material to be successful and to render hockey more known to the public.

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04-08-2015, 01:17 AM
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The biggest problem in the Austrian league (EBEL, which is not really an Austrian league) is the lack of the quality and the number of good teams. To be honest, there're only three probably four teams which perform very well every year. I think Salzburg, Vienna (which have the money) and Linz could also play in the DEL. The other teams are unfortunately underperforming. But the idea of a great league, similar the KHL, would be great. On the one hand the south-division with teams from Austria and munich, straubing as well, on the other hand a north-division. sounds good.


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04-10-2015, 03:06 PM
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The biggest problem is that hardcore fans (unfortunately) are just not interested in those type of international games. If I look at how German hockey fans completely ignored the CHL and already said before it even started that they won't attend games... I doubt a league like that will have a chance.

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04-13-2015, 03:44 PM
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I think people don't get attracted by the CHL (and, in extenso, by the european games) because it's not something very common in Hockey Culture I guess.

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