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The end of a (brief) era: John Farrell off to Boston in exchange for SS Mike Aviles

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Old
10-21-2012, 11:00 PM
  #951
Dark Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
It does sound interesting. I like his demeanor and attitude more than anything else. Seems like a guy that young players could respect but still possesses an iron fist.

DeMarlo Hale was one of the rumored 4 finalists last year as another name to toss out there. RedSox bench coach, currently Orioles 3rd base coach.
He was actually the runner up for the job and he just interviewed for the Red Sox job as well. He's got a great reputation around and is known to be an excellent communicator, especially as far as younger players are concerned. I think he has to be one of AA's top choices.

He's been a part of some very good teams.

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Old
10-21-2012, 11:16 PM
  #952
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This is how I'm hoping the offseason to take shape.

Quote:
Hire DeMarlo Hale, Sandy Alomar Jr. or Brian Butterfield as manager.

Sign Tori Hunter to a 2 year, 20 million deal to play LF.

Sign Kevin Youkilis to a 2 year 17 million deal to play 1B.

Sign Anibal Sanchez to a 4 year 42 million deal.
Hitting Lineup

Brett Lawrie - 3B
Kevin Youkilis - 1B
Jose Bautista - RF
Edwin Encarnacion - DH
Tori Hunter - LF
Colby Rasmus - CF
J.P Arencibia - C
Yunel Escobar - SS
Mike Aviles/Adeiny Hechavarria - 2B

Rotation

Brandon Morrow
Ricky Romero
Anibal Sanchez
Henderson Alvarez
J.A Happ

I believe Tori Hunter and Kevin Youkilis both add different dimensions to the team. Hunter is a great leader and has been for the Angels for a long time. If he chooses to come he has the resume to take over the leadership role in the dressing room. Youkilis is also a solid player. We can ask him to play 1B and his ability to get on base will be welcomed. I believe adding these two players does fill the leadership void on our team, but at the same time it gets us two pretty solid starting players, rather than getting a washed up Omar Vizquel who was on his last run and not an impact on the field at all.

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10-21-2012, 11:18 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
He was actually the runner up for the job and he just interviewed for the Red Sox job as well. He's got a great reputation around and is known to be an excellent communicator, especially as far as younger players are concerned. I think he has to be one of AA's top choices.

He's been a part of some very good teams.
That's the third player I've heard called the runner up for the Jays manager job. Most people seem to think Butterfield or Sandy Alomar Jr were the runners up.

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10-21-2012, 11:34 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
That's the third player I've heard called the runner up for the Jays manager job. Most people seem to think Butterfield or Sandy Alomar Jr were the runners up.
Sandy Alomar Jr. was interviewed very early but AA realized that, while he has the potential to be a great manager one day, he lacked experience in the big leagues in any managing capacity.

Butterfield was also ruled out but I'm sure he was the 2nd runner up.

It came down to Hale and Farrell.

Farrell was AA's choice and there were rumors that LaCava and other management personnel wanted Hale. But again, there were just rumors.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
This is how I'm hoping the offseason to take shape.



Hitting Lineup

Brett Lawrie - 3B
Kevin Youkilis - 1B
Jose Bautista - RF
Edwin Encarnacion - DH
Tori Hunter - LF
Colby Rasmus - CF
J.P Arencibia - C
Yunel Escobar - SS
Mike Aviles/Adeiny Hechavarria - 2B

Rotation

Brandon Morrow
Ricky Romero
Anibal Sanchez
Henderson Alvarez
J.A Happ

I believe Tori Hunter and Kevin Youkilis both add different dimensions to the team. Hunter is a great leader and has been for the Angels for a long time. If he chooses to come he has the resume to take over the leadership role in the dressing room. Youkilis is also a solid player. We can ask him to play 1B and his ability to get on base will be welcomed. I believe adding these two players does fill the leadership void on our team, but at the same time it gets us two pretty solid starting players, rather than getting a washed up Omar Vizquel who was on his last run and not an impact on the field at all.
I like the additions through free agency, but just question the lack of depth on the pitching staff. Also, do you think that Escobar remains a Jay?

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
This is how I'm hoping the offseason to take shape.



Hitting Lineup

Brett Lawrie - 3B
Kevin Youkilis - 1B
Jose Bautista - RF
Edwin Encarnacion - DH
Tori Hunter - LF
Colby Rasmus - CF
J.P Arencibia - C
Yunel Escobar - SS
Mike Aviles/Adeiny Hechavarria - 2B

Rotation

Brandon Morrow
Ricky Romero
Anibal Sanchez
Henderson Alvarez
J.A Happ

I believe Tori Hunter and Kevin Youkilis both add different dimensions to the team. Hunter is a great leader and has been for the Angels for a long time. If he chooses to come he has the resume to take over the leadership role in the dressing room. Youkilis is also a solid player. We can ask him to play 1B and his ability to get on base will be welcomed. I believe adding these two players does fill the leadership void on our team, but at the same time it gets us two pretty solid starting players, rather than getting a washed up Omar Vizquel who was on his last run and not an impact on the field at all.
I like a Hunter and agree they need to add a veteran presence, but I'm not keen on getting two guys in the final season(s). So no thanks to Syoulilis - would much rather sign Ortiz at DH than Youk at 1B, and there are veteran options in LF that have more baseball left in them than Youkilis (Pagan, Victorino, etc.).

Whatever else happens, though, the Jays need to add two starting pitchers - a 1/2 and a 3/4. Henderson Alvarez should not be part of a healthy rotation in Toronto next season.

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:21 AM
  #957
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This off-season will be pretty important to what AA does and I believe he makes 4 significant trades.


1. To Seattle for Justin Smoak: RP – Brad Lincoln, SP –Henderson Alvarez
- pretty tough to give up on such a young player like Alvarez who has lots of potential, but you are essentially getting that back in Justin Smoak. Brad Lincoln is in a numbers battle and is easily replaceable.

2. To Arizona for Upton: OF – Jake Marisnick, 1B – Adam Lind, C – JP Arencibia
- this is a big move, especially since his brother is a free agent, Marisnick is a huge prospect and Arencibia is a fan favourite. Upton comes in and plays LF and is a mainstay there for the next 5 years. You know you are going to get atleast 15 home runs and 70 RBI, with an above average mitt in the field.

3. To Miami for Josh Johnson: OF – Jacob Anderson (20th ranked prospect), P – Kyle Drabek, P – Brett Cecil
- I'm really not sure what the pricetag would be on Johnson, especially with a huge pricetag for next season. Therefore, I don't give up too much in talent.


Gerald Laird – 1 year, $2 million
Shaun Marcum – 2 year, $6.8 million per
J.P. Howell – 2 year, $ 6 million total
Austin Kearns - 1 year, $4.5 million per


Depth Chart

C – Laird/Mathis, Travis D’Arnaud
1B – Justin Smoak
2B – Mike Aviles
SS – Yunel Escobar
3B – Brett Lawrie
DH – Edwin Encarnacion

LF – Justin Upton
CF – Colby Rasmus
RF – Jose Bautista

Bench – Jeff Mathis
Bench – Rajai Davis
Bench – Austin Kearns
Bench – Mike McCoy

SP –Josh Johnson
SP – Brandon Morrow
SP – Shaun Marcum
SP – Ricky Romero
SP – J. A. Happ

After shipping Arencibia out to Arizona, you allow DA to come back from his injury slowly. You've replaced the production that JP had with Upton and you're also going to be getting Bautista back. Smoak is also good for 15, 50 atleast.

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:49 AM
  #958
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1. Smoak is not worth that.
2. Upton likely commands another top 10 prospect.
3. I don't think Miami is interested in two pen arms (one who won't play this year) + a raw outfielder for their best pitcher.
4. Laird isn't much of an option. If Arencibia is being dealt, we'd likely start with d'Arnaud and Mathis or have Gomes be a utility for a month until d'Arnaud is good to go.

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10-22-2012, 02:39 AM
  #959
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
After returning last year;

July: .288 avg, .375 OBP, 3 HR, 12 RBI
August: .300 avg, .333 OBP, 1 HR, 2 RBI
September: .277 avg, .313 OBP, 2 HR, 14 RBI
October: .556 avg, 636 OBP, 2 HR, 2 RBI

Overall: (Guesses, I dont feel like doing the math); .285 avg, .345 OBP, 8 HR, 30 RBI

He's not an amazing 1B, but there are worse. And after returning, he played well.

The only thing that worries me about Lind is his injury trouble.
Those are terrible numbers for a first baseman, especially if you look at the OPS.

Then count his poor defense and you have at best neutral value, possibly negative.

Lind's war for those months was probably below 0.

Funny how you went from "he was a great hitter" to "there are worse."

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10-22-2012, 03:08 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
1. Smoak is not worth that.
2. Upton likely commands another top 10 prospect.
3. I don't think Miami is interested in two pen arms (one who won't play this year) + a raw outfielder for their best pitcher.
4. Laird isn't much of an option. If Arencibia is being dealt, we'd likely start with d'Arnaud and Mathis or have Gomes be a utility for a month until d'Arnaud is good to go.
1. You think that the Mariners have to add?

2. Upton's value has dipped a bit, but adding a catcher in his prime and a top 40prospect in the bigs is good value I think. Toronto wouldn't have to add a lot more in my opinion.

3. Johnson's contract is upwards of 13 million for next season. With the unloading that Miami is expected to do, I don't think it takes more than that.

4. Do you really want to have Gomes as that role?

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10-22-2012, 05:03 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
1. You think that the Mariners have to add?

2. Upton's value has dipped a bit, but adding a catcher in his prime and a top 40prospect in the bigs is good value I think. Toronto wouldn't have to add a lot more in my opinion.

3. Johnson's contract is upwards of 13 million for next season. With the unloading that Miami is expected to do, I don't think it takes more than that.

4. Do you really want to have Gomes as that role?
You are so far off on values for Upton and Johnson it's crazy. You really think a long arm and a kid on his second TJ plus a not great prospect are gonna get you a front of the rotation starter? If you really don't think it would take much more than that you have no idea what player values are.

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10-22-2012, 06:04 AM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
This is how I'm hoping the offseason to take shape.



Hitting Lineup

Brett Lawrie - 3B
Kevin Youkilis - 1B
Jose Bautista - RF
Edwin Encarnacion - DH
Tori Hunter - LF
Colby Rasmus - CF
J.P Arencibia - C
Yunel Escobar - SS
Mike Aviles/Adeiny Hechavarria - 2B

Rotation

Brandon Morrow
Ricky Romero
Anibal Sanchez
Henderson Alvarez
J.A Happ

I believe Tori Hunter and Kevin Youkilis both add different dimensions to the team. Hunter is a great leader and has been for the Angels for a long time. If he chooses to come he has the resume to take over the leadership role in the dressing room. Youkilis is also a solid player. We can ask him to play 1B and his ability to get on base will be welcomed. I believe adding these two players does fill the leadership void on our team, but at the same time it gets us two pretty solid starting players, rather than getting a washed up Omar Vizquel who was on his last run and not an impact on the field at all.
I think a 2nd pitcher needs to be added. Don't want to see Alvarez up until he earns it.

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10-22-2012, 06:05 AM
  #963
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I like the additions through free agency, but just question the lack of depth on the pitching staff. Also, do you think that Escobar remains a Jay?
This raises an interesting question. Talking to a friend, he thought that this deal seems to signal Escobar's inevitable departure. Thoughts?

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Old
10-22-2012, 06:12 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports that the Blue Jays "will look to trade" Yunel Escobar this offseason.

https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/sta...84926026764288
For jcollins (asking about Escobar), Heyman appears to agree with your friend. I've been of the opinion that Escobar was on the market already as a piece to go towards an impact pitcher. Failing that, however, I still see him back next season even with the addition of Aviles, who either moves to 2B to replace Johnson or takes his proper spot as a super-utility off the bench.

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10-22-2012, 06:22 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
You are so far off on values for Upton and Johnson it's crazy. You really think a long arm and a kid on his second TJ plus a not great prospect are gonna get you a front of the rotation starter? If you really don't think it would take much more than that you have no idea what player values are.
What is the value on Upton then?

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10-22-2012, 06:51 AM
  #966
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A review of some of the possible Manager candidates.

Toronto Blue Jays: Eight men in hunt to replace John Farrell

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...e-john-farrell

Quote:
SANDY ALOMAR JR.

Currently: Indians bench coach

Resume: Former all-star catcher with 20 years of big-league experience, mostly with Cleveland; Indians coach since 2009; minor-league instructor with Mets; brother of ex-Blue Jays great Roberto Alomar

Why he’ll get the job: He was on the short list last time and was interviewed for managerial posts in Boston and Cleveland; Alomar family has close ties to Jays and president Paul Beeston.

Why he won’t: Jays decide to promote an internal candidate or someone with more experience

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10-22-2012, 07:03 AM
  #967
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Who will be the Jays' next manager?

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/10/21...s-next-manager

Quote:
1. Sandy Alomar, Jr.

46, Cleveland Indians, bench coach ... 5-2

Jays finalist two years ago. Six games interim manager for Indians this year. Would hiring Sandy mean brother Robbie and father Sandy in on the decision-making?

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10-22-2012, 07:44 AM
  #968
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
1. You think that the Mariners have to add?

2. Upton's value has dipped a bit, but adding a catcher in his prime and a top 40prospect in the bigs is good value I think. Toronto wouldn't have to add a lot more in my opinion.

3. Johnson's contract is upwards of 13 million for next season. With the unloading that Miami is expected to do, I don't think it takes more than that.

4. Do you really want to have Gomes as that role?
I don't know if you're being facetious, or you're actually serious.

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10-22-2012, 08:00 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
I don't know if you're being facetious, or you're actually serious.
It's like he's the anti-Zaun, massively underestimating the value of proven performers and vastly overestimating the value of fringe players and prospects.

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10-22-2012, 08:27 AM
  #970
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You are so far off on values for Upton and Johnson it's crazy. You really think a long arm and a kid on his second TJ plus a not great prospect are gonna get you a front of the rotation starter? If you really don't think it would take much more than that you have no idea what player values are.
Agreed. Also the Dbacks have montero they don't need JP.

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10-22-2012, 08:46 AM
  #971
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It's like he's the anti-Zaun, massively underestimating the value of proven performers and vastly overestimating the value of fringe players and prospects.
Lol, I wonder if he's nice and soft-spoken as well. Bizarro-Zaun!

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10-22-2012, 08:57 AM
  #972
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Jeff Blair just said two things on the Fan 590:

1. There's no chance Zach Grienke comes to Toronto "He's already made that clear"

2. There's no chance that Shaun Marcum is brought back to Toronto as long as AA is GM. "AA thought there may have been some things going on in the locker room while he was here."

First off, does any remember seeing an article or quote from Grienke stating he wouldn't come here? And second, if we take Blair at his word, we can scratch the Marcum re-acquisition off the list of possible free agents.

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10-22-2012, 09:11 AM
  #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Jeff Blair just said two things on the Fan 590:

1. There's no chance Zach Grienke comes to Toronto "He's already made that clear"

2. There's no chance that Shaun Marcum is brought back to Toronto as long as AA is GM. "AA thought there may have been some things going on in the locker room while he was here."

First off, does any remember seeing an article or quote from Grienke stating he wouldn't come here? And second, if we take Blair at his word, we can scratch the Marcum re-acquisition off the list of possible free agents.
It was my understanding that the Jays had previously inquired after Greinke prior to his move this year, and Greinke's camp had communicated that he was not interested in coming here. But I don't know if that "no" was contextual to that moment, or a blanket refusal. And I haven't been able to find the reference since...

As far as Marcum goes, that's fine - there are lots of other options on the market, including guys without the same injury concerns.

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10-22-2012, 09:23 AM
  #974
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What is the value on Upton then?
Well, he is a young 5 tool player with a tiny bit of character issues who just had a down year but still lots of upside and control. Basically he is just like Lawrie, is Lawrie worth your package? We are talking 2 top prospects and 1 roster player for Upton.

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10-22-2012, 09:23 AM
  #975
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On the Farrell stuff:

1. Ultimately, this is a business. It sucks, but it's true, and that means that when a manager wants out of his contract to go somewhere else you're put in a bit of a bind. Yes, you can say no, but that almost forces you into giving Farrell a contract extension, something he really hasn't earned. Sure, you could fire him on the spot, and let him go for nothing rather than play a silly song and dance with Boston, but I'm not really sure what that accomplishes.

2. The compensation is fine. Aviles is far from a world beater, but it is what it is. Compensation was never going to come in the form of a Pedroia or a Bucholtz, or even a Bard. It wasn't going to happen, most of this was media driven nonsense (as per usual, the media than turned around and laughed the 'fans' notion of what compensation would be, after it was the media who speculated about different names).

3. Despite points 1 and 2, I find it absolutely astonishing AA had been discussing the plans for the offseason 'in depth' with Farrell. Why? Was AA living under a rock? This Farrell to Boston stuff had been talked about for MONTHS. Farrell had not denied interest a single time. Would it have been that hard to ask about the Boston stuff before discussing off-season plans?

4. The Blue Jays have a lot of good will to re-establish this off-season. It's hard to believe how optimistic people were heading into the season. I don't think the season could have gone any worse in terms of setbacks, injuries and PR nightmares. It will be interesting to see whether AA and Beeston continue to play things so close to the vest.

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