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NHL to Expand 2 teams in Canada - THN

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Old
10-21-2012, 05:41 PM
  #651
Killion
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
There's an AHL team in Austin (Cedar Park) already.
...oh thats right to. Forgot about that. Formerly the "Iowa Chop", one of the worst names ever in pro-sports. Cedar Park though incorporated for all intensive purposes a suburb of Austin thats been growing in leaps & bounds over the past decade alone. But sure, San Antonio vs Texas Stars; Houston vs Dallas. Definitely.

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10-21-2012, 05:43 PM
  #652
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I haven't read the thread, because quite frankly 26 pages is way too much to catch up on. Anyways, i'm just not seeing this as a possibility in my own head. Earlier last season, we try to relocate and make sense of divisions, make travel easier, and overall better for the sport. It gets shot down so fast it's not even funny. In talks of mock schedules being way too hard to develop, players *****ing about travel and unfairness between the divisions, etc... but now, alongside with CBA negotiations, we magically want to add 2 teams to Canada? Dude. Get the CBA done, and then start thinking about adding teams. You didn't even want to add teams last season and arms were thrown up to the sky. Someone make sense of this for me man.

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10-21-2012, 06:13 PM
  #653
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The NHL. is going to be in some serious trouble if lockout lasts anymore than 3 months because if lasts more than that I think the season is lost & if that happens you can bet there is going to be some masive changes . Such as firring both Gary Bettman & his lacky Bill Daliy also I belive there is going to be a few relocations because I think that some of the weaker teams like Phoenix , Nashville , Florida Columbus , NY. Islanders , Dallas & Carolina that can not survive another lockout especially if it last the entire season we could see as many as 3 relocation within the next 5 years along with 2 expansion teams .

Hamilton
Quebec City
Seattle
Houston
Kansas City

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10-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
The NHL. is going to be in some serious trouble if lockout lasts anymore than 3 months because if lasts more than that I think the season is lost & if that happens you can bet there is going to be some masive changes . Such as firring both Gary Bettman & his lacky Bill Daliy also I belive there is going to be a few relocations because I think that some of the weaker teams like Phoenix , Nashville , Florida Columbus , NY. Islanders , Dallas & Carolina that can not survive another lockout especially if it last the entire season we could see as many as 3 relocation within the next 5 years along with 2 expansion teams .

Hamilton
Quebec City
Seattle
Houston
Kansas City
And what would firing bettman do to prevent future CBA issues like this. Caving to everything the union wants is bad for the league more worse than a lockout. Bettman is only 1 person he can't control what the owners decide to do. If the owners want a lockout there is nothing the commissioner can do.

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10-21-2012, 06:29 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
And what would firing bettman do to prevent future CBA issues like this. Caving to everything the union wants is bad for the league more worse than a lockout. Bettman is only 1 person he can't control what the owners decide to do. If the owners want a lockout there is nothing the commissioner can do.
The level of hate Bettman gets from certain quarters just defies rationality

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10-21-2012, 06:32 PM
  #656
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The level of hate Bettman gets from certain quarters just defies rationality
What would help regarding the situation is a more reasonable person in charge of the players union.

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10-21-2012, 06:36 PM
  #657
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What would help regarding the situation is a more reasonable person in charge of the players union.
They didn't bring Fehr in because they were of a mind to be reasonable though. He was brought in to "get even" for 2004. There's way too much irrational hatred and pettiness in all this. Lots of people venting knee-jerk emotionalisms and not many thinking logically.

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10-21-2012, 06:41 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
They didn't bring Fehr in because they were of a mind to be reasonable though. He was brought in to "get even" for 2004. There's way too much irrational hatred and pettiness in all this. Lots of people venting knee-jerk emotionalisms and not many thinking logically.
I happen to really dislike Fehr.

It takes two sides to get it done if folks want bettman gone that will not prevent future work-stoppage from happening.

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10-21-2012, 06:44 PM
  #659
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I happen to really dislike Fehr.

It takes two sides to get it done if folks want bettman gone that will not prevent future work-stoppage from happening.
Yeah, Fehr isn't on my Christmas card list either.....but I have a long memory of him running the baseball union and they aren't pleasant reminiscences.

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10-21-2012, 06:47 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Yeah, Fehr isn't on my Christmas card list either.....but I have a long memory of him running the baseball union and they aren't pleasant reminiscences.
It takes a stable work relationship (trust) between league and union to prevent work stoppage. I just don't see that with Fehr in charge of the union. In fact the first new CBA for MLB since the 1994 strike got done with out a work stoppage.


Last edited by gstommylee: 10-21-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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10-21-2012, 07:01 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
The NHL. is going to be in some serious trouble if lockout lasts anymore than 3 months because if lasts more than that I think the season is lost & if that happens you can bet there is going to be some masive changes . Such as firring both Gary Bettman & his lacky Bill Daliy also I belive there is going to be a few relocations because I think that some of the weaker teams like Phoenix , Nashville , Florida Columbus , NY. Islanders , Dallas & Carolina that can not survive another lockout especially if it last the entire season we could see as many as 3 relocation within the next 5 years along with 2 expansion teams .

Hamilton
Quebec City
Seattle
Houston
Kansas City
*sigh* let me help you.


$4m-$8m per season in losses the last 3 seasons.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/


NYI would qualify for revenue sharing in the new cba. An additional $10m? $15m
http://www.lighthousehockey.com/2012...evenue-sharing




So, a stronger lease after 2015+ huge cable deal+ revenue sharing+improved on ice product, which should led to better attendance + playoff revenue = a stronger franchise.

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Old
10-21-2012, 07:07 PM
  #662
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I don't know Houston and Kansas city are being bandied around. Give them five years and they'll be in the same spot Atlanta was in

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10-21-2012, 07:40 PM
  #663
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Bettman is not calling the shots, he does what he is told to do.

This man runs the NHL. How he got that power I don't want to know.



Last edited by Fenway: 10-21-2012 at 08:10 PM.
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Old
10-21-2012, 07:46 PM
  #664
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Bettman is not calling the shots, he does what he is old to do.

This man runs the NHL. How he got that power I don't want to know.

I've heard if as few as 8 teams agree with Bettman, what he says goes. So it wouldn't be hard for the bottom 8 revenue earners to band together and lose the season. It may be their best year financially and there isn't a thing the profitable teams could do about it.

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10-21-2012, 08:39 PM
  #665
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Go read the thread on the financials for teams between the two lockouts. Dallas does not have financial woes, and it appears they made money last season.
Why should this league measure financial woes by "appearing" to make money as opposed to actually making money.

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10-21-2012, 08:47 PM
  #666
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Well, none of us really know what the profit numbers are for the league and its teams so assuming they are still around is probably a good indicator. Plus there are Forbes numbers so I don't see why you shouldn't go with it.

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10-21-2012, 09:38 PM
  #667
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Let me tell you somthing if the owners are willing to lockout the players & risk lossing another season there bad business men as for the players I have no sympathy for them ethier & to be honest I am enjoying there suffering & its obvious that the owners & players have not learned from 04\05 season now maybe by lossing half or another full season will teach these fools a lesson . Maybe with some major changes the NHL. can become more respectble league starting at the top & relocatting some of the weaker teams to stronger markets but knowing the NHL. they won't because the NHL. BOG. is so corrupted nothing smart will be done . You gotta think the NHL. is really runed by Gary Bettman , Bill Daliy & 4 teams in which I mean Bruins (Jacobs) , Flyers (Snider) , Kings (AEG.) , Leafs (MLSE.) when thoses 6 say jump the rest of the league says how high & if all 4 of thoses teams are happy with Bettman keeps his job no matter what his record is which is 4 work stopages in 20 years .

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10-21-2012, 09:53 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
The level of hate Bettman gets from certain quarters just defies rationality
It went from HATE Bettman to SAINT Bettman here in Winnipeg with the return of the Jets 2.0, he has grown the league, revenue has increased dramatically during his tenure, there are more teams and players are paid like never before. On the flip side the huge TV deal never materialized a certain money losing team has stayed in a certain location way too long owner less for three years and labour discontent seems to flare up way too often.

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10-21-2012, 09:58 PM
  #669
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I haven't read the thread, because quite frankly 26 pages is way too much to catch up on. Anyways, i'm just not seeing this as a possibility in my own head. Earlier last season, we try to relocate and make sense of divisions, make travel easier, and overall better for the sport. It gets shot down so fast it's not even funny. In talks of mock schedules being way too hard to develop, players *****ing about travel and unfairness between the divisions, etc... but now, alongside with CBA negotiations, we magically want to add 2 teams to Canada? Dude. Get the CBA done, and then start thinking about adding teams. You didn't even want to add teams last season and arms were thrown up to the sky. Someone make sense of this for me man.
-- the realignment plan was shot down as an opening shot of CBA negotiations. The NHLPA never "considered" it, it was simply "Whatever they propose is getting vetoed on principle."

-- The possibility exists because the league can trade "new jobs" from expansion to the NHLPA in CBA negotiations. It artificially creates a bargaining chip.

-- It's also a possibility because the NHL had to approve the sale of MLSE, and the speculation is the approval by the league may have included that MLSE had to be willing to accept another team in Southern Ontario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
I belive there is going to be a few relocations because I think that some of the weaker teams like Phoenix , Nashville , Florida Columbus , NY. Islanders , Dallas & Carolina that can not survive another lockout especially if it last the entire season we could see as many as 3 relocation within the next 5 years along with 2 expansion teams .
That's a bunch of nonsense. To include Dallas with the list of struggling teams is insanity. Try looking at their entire tenure in Dallas, rather than 1-2 years. Columbus and Nashville just redid their leases. The Islanders ain't going anywhere except Brooklyn. Carolina has an owner who treats the team as a hobby and their losses are pocket change to him.

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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
I don't know Houston and Kansas city are being bandied around. Give them five years and they'll be in the same spot Atlanta was in
Evicted from their building by idiot ownership? Kansas City is not a good idea. Houston would be similar to Dallas, not Atlanta.

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Old
10-21-2012, 10:06 PM
  #670
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Why should this league measure financial woes by "appearing" to make money as opposed to actually making money.
Let's not argue symantics, I hope you know what I actually meant. Real financials don't get releaesed but if you do the math Dallas made money, but you can't be sure so that's why I said "appears". A full year under the Vancouver billionaire and Dallas will be making millions again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Dallas as a litmus test:
Turned a profit every single season until Hicks bought Liverpool.
Sold 98% of their tickets in their new arena until Hicks bought Liverpool.
Highly profitable until Hicks bought Liverpool.
Top 16 in revenue every single year until Hicks bought Liverpool.

Everything about Dallas was fine. Until Hicks bought Liverpool. Then the Stars and the Texas Rangers were financially crap. Both teams entered bankruptcy. The common thread was: Hicks bought Liverpool. He spread himself too thin and ran all three franchises on a shoestring, syphoning off dollars to pay his new soccer debt. He choose to lose the Rangers/Stars to keep Liverpool.

Also, Nashville, Columbus, and the Islanders all renegotiated their leases.
Thanks, you explained it a lot better than I could have, but people still aren't going to realize this. Dallas is still one of the most valuable teams in the NHL as well despite the problems. People shouldn't underestimate the effects a bankrupt owner hahs on revenue, it's no coincidence attendence dropped when Hicks went broke.

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10-21-2012, 10:08 PM
  #671
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The NHL should now see where the gold is. Canada. Expand 2 teams in to Canada. Quebec city and Markham and then contract 2 struggling teams.

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10-21-2012, 10:19 PM
  #672
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The NHL should now see where the gold is. Canada. Expand 2 teams in to Canada. Quebec city and Markham and then contract 2 struggling teams.
They are not gonna contract 2 teams. That would be a slap in the face for Seattle. Nevermind that would unethical. You don't expand just to contract teams. If you want to have same # of teams then relocate to canada.

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10-21-2012, 10:30 PM
  #673
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The NHL should now see where the gold is. Canada. Expand 2 teams in to Canada. Quebec city and Markham and then contract 2 struggling teams.
Why not just move those two teams then? It would be much more profitable to move those two struggling teams to Seattle and lets say Milwaukee than to just let them fold.

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10-21-2012, 10:32 PM
  #674
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Why not just move those two teams then? It would be much more profitable to move those two struggling teams to Seattle and lets say Milwaukee than to just let them fold.
Exactly. Why contract when there are still interested cities.

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10-21-2012, 10:41 PM
  #675
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Exactly. Why contract when there are still interested cities.
The expansion fees are going to be a gold mind for the league.

I do fully expect them to want a 32 team league though.

I am in support of moving a team to seattle.

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