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Top 60 1967-2007 by the Hockey News

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Old
11-08-2007, 12:44 PM
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LapierreSports
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Top 60 1967-2007 by the Hockey News

Some people have been asking for it, so here is the ranking of the best players from the post expansion. The voting comitee : Brian Burke, Jim Rutherford, Jacques Demers, Harry Neale, Kévin-Paul Dupont (Boston Globe), Al Strachan, Mike Brophy, Ken Campbell, Adam Proteau and Jason Kay of the Hockey News.

60: Sergei Fedorov, Détroit, Anaheim et Columbus
59: Borje Salming, Toronto et Détroit
58: Darryl Sittler, Toronto, Philadelphie et Détroit
57: Sidney Crosby. Pittsburgh
56: Denis Savard, Montréal, Chicago et Tampa Bay
55: Glenn Anderson, Edmonton, Toronto, Rangers et St-Louis
54: Yvan Cournoyer, Montréal
53: Ed Belfour, Chicago, San Jose, Dallas, Toronto et Floride
52: Stan Mikita, Chicago
51: Luc Robitaille, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Détroit et Rangers
50: Rob Blake, Los Angeles et Colorado
49: Brendan Shanahan, Détroit, New Jersey, St-Louis,Hartford et Rangers
48: Pat Lafontaine, Buffalo, Rangers et Islanders
47: Dale Hawerchuk: Winnipeg, Buffalo, Saint-Louis et Philadelphie
46: Chris Pronger, Hartford, St-Louis, Edmonton et Anaheim
45: Tony Esposito, Montréal et Chicago
44 : Pavel Bure, Vancouver, Floride et Rangers
43 : Frank Mahovlich, Toronto, Détroit et Montréal
42: Cam Neely, Vancouver et Boston
41: Bob Gainey, Montréal
40: Joe Nieuwendyk, Calgary, Dallas, New Jersey, Toronto et Floride
39: Brian Leetch, Rangers, Toronto et Boston
38: Scott Niedermayer, New Jersey et Anaheim
37: Grant Fuhr, Edmonton, Toronto, Buffalo, Los Angeles, St-Louis et Calgary
36: Brad Park, Rangers, Boston et Détroit
35 : Billy Smith, Los Angeles et Islanders
34: Serge Savard, Montréal et Winnipeg
33: Bobby Hull, Chicago, Winnipeg et Hartford
32: Chris Chelios, Montréal, Chicago et Détroit
31 : Al MacInnis, Calgary et St-Louis
30 : Peter Stastny, Québec, New Jersey et St-Louis
29 : Ken Dryden, Montréal
28 : Bernie Parent, Boston, Philadelphie et Toronto
27 : Gilbert Perreault, Buffalo
26 : Scott Stevens, Washington, St-Louis et New Jersey
25: Ron Francis, Hartford, Pittsburgh, Caroline et Toronto
24: Peter Forsberg, Québec/Colorado, Philadelphie et Nashville
23: Marcel Dionne, Détroit, Los Angeles et Rangers
22 : Brett Hull, Calgary, St-Louis, Dallas, Détroit et Phoenix
21 : Jari Kurri, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Rangers, Anaheim et Colorado
20 : Joe Sakic, Québec/Colorado
19 : Bryan Trottier, Islanders et Pittsburgh
18 : Larry Robinson, Montréal et Los Angeles
17 : Dominik Hasek, Chicago, Buffalo, Détroit et Ottawa
16 : Paul Coffey, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Détroit, Hartford, Philadelphie, Chicago, Caroline et Boston
15 : Bobby Clarke, Philadelphie
14: Denis Potvin, Islanders
13: Guy Lafleur, Montréal, Rangers et Québec
12 : Jaromir Jagr, Pittsburgh, Washington et Rangers
11 : Mike Bossy, Islanders
10: Phil Esposito, Chicago, Boston et Rangers
9: Niklas Lidstrom, Détroit
8: Raymond Bourque, Boston et Colorado
7 : Martin Brodeur, New Jersey
6 : Steve Yzerman, Détroit
5: Patrick Roy, Montréal et Colorado
4: Mark Messier, Edmonton, Rangers et Vancouver
3 : Mario Lemieux , Pittsburgh
2 : Bobby Orr, Boston et Chicago
1: Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton, Los Angeles, St-Louis et Rangers

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11-08-2007, 12:51 PM
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Steve Yzerman is far, far too high. I love the guy (who doesn't?), but come on. Ahead of Lafleur, Esposito, Bourque...not a chance

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11-08-2007, 12:53 PM
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I like how their rankings change entirely from that top 100 players of all time book they put out a few years back. The careers never changed, somehow their importance in history did.

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11-08-2007, 12:58 PM
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Scott Stevens ahead of Chris Chelios?

Bobby Hull at 33?

Brutal.

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11-08-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Scott Stevens ahead of Chris Chelios?

Bobby Hull at 33?

Brutal.
Hull did most of his damage in the NHL pre-1967

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11-08-2007, 01:04 PM
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Some quick thoughts.

Bourque should be higher.

Chelios is way too low.

Neely, Bure and Crosby, but no Lindros ???

Shanahan too low.

Brodeur, Yzerman, and Lidstrom all ahead of Clarke, Potvin and Trottier ???

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11-08-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
I like how their rankings change entirely from that top 100 players of all time book they put out a few years back. The careers never changed, somehow their importance in history did.
In their defence the voting panel is different, therefore different results.

Since I'm sure everyone else will criticize, I'll join the party:

Rated too high: Kurri, Perreault, Brodeur, Forsberg, Bossy

Rated too low: Dryden, Chelios, Fedorov, Hasek, Lafleur

Shouldn't be on the list: Nieuwendyk, Blake, Robitaille, Crosby

Most glaring omissions: Oates, Gilmour, McDonald, Mark Howe


Last edited by reckoning: 11-08-2007 at 01:37 PM.
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11-08-2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Hull did most of his damage in the NHL pre-1967
I just expect someone who is widely renowned as one of the best leftwingers of all-time to be higher than 33.

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11-08-2007, 01:38 PM
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Not that bad of a list.

First thing that sticks out is that Hasek is way too low. Has as many Vezinas as Roy and Brodeur combined, but they come in at 5 and 7 while Hasek is 17? Hasek should be the highest-ranked post-expansion goalie, case closed. Only goalie to be MVP, and he did it twice.

Bossy seems awfully high. Great player, but I'd rank him in the Hull/Kurri/Sakic group about 8-10 spots lower.

Lindros belongs here if Bure and Neely do, especially ahead of the likes of Glenn Anderson.

Not sure why there's such a gap between Stastny and Hawerchuk, who had near carbon copy careers.

Chelios belongs ahead of Stevens and especially MacInnis.

Hard to rank guys like Hull/Mikita/Mahovlich whose careers were halved by the 1967 cutoff.

Joe Niewendyk at 40 is probably the most outright ridiculous ranking.

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11-08-2007, 01:52 PM
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They have Luc Robitaille rated 9 spots higher than Sergei Fedorov. I'd love to hear the logic behind that.

I'd probably put Lafleur and Hasek at #4 and #5 after the big three. They don't even crack the top 10???


Last edited by reckoning: 11-08-2007 at 02:04 PM.
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11-08-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LapierreSports View Post
Some people have been asking for it, so here is the ranking of the best players from the post expansion. The voting comitee : Brian Burke, Jim Rutherford, Jacques Demers, Harry Neale, Kévin-Paul Dupont (Boston Globe), Al Strachan, Mike Brophy, Ken Campbell, Adam Proteau and Jason Kay of the Hockey News.

60: Sergei Fedorov, Détroit, Anaheim et Columbus if you consider his peak , he is too low
59: Borje Salming, Toronto et DétroitI consider him better than Blake , he played on some really aweful Leaf teams.
58: Darryl Sittler, Toronto, Philadelphie et Détroit
57: Sidney Crosby. Pittsburgh
56: Denis Savard, Montréal, Chicago et Tampa Bay
55: Glenn Anderson, Edmonton, Toronto, Rangers et St-Louis
54: Yvan Cournoyer, Montréal
53: Ed Belfour, Chicago, San Jose, Dallas, Toronto et Floride
52: Stan Mikita, Chicago
51: Luc Robitaille, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Détroit et Rangers
50: Rob Blake, Los Angeles et Colorado
49: Brendan Shanahan, Détroit, New Jersey, St-Louis,Hartford et Rangers
48: Pat Lafontaine, Buffalo, Rangers et Islanders
47: Dale Hawerchuk: Winnipeg, Buffalo, Saint-Louis et Philadelphie
46: Chris Pronger, Hartford, St-Louis, Edmonton et Anaheim
45: Tony Esposito, Montréal et Chicago
44 : Pavel Bure, Vancouver, Floride et Rangers
43 : Frank Mahovlich, Toronto, Détroit et Montréal
42: Cam Neely, Vancouver et Boston
41: Bob Gainey, Montréal
40: Joe Nieuwendyk, Calgary, Dallas, New Jersey, Toronto et FlorideWhy? What makes him better than Fedorov?
39: Brian Leetch, Rangers, Toronto et Boston
38: Scott Niedermayer, New Jersey et Anaheim
37: Grant Fuhr, Edmonton, Toronto, Buffalo, Los Angeles, St-Louis et Calgary
36: Brad Park, Rangers, Boston et Détroit
35 : Billy Smith, Los Angeles et Islanders
34: Serge Savard, Montréal et Winnipeg
33: Bobby Hull, Chicago, Winnipeg et Hartford
32: Chris Chelios, Montréal, Chicago et Détroit
31 : Al MacInnis, Calgary et St-Louis
30 : Peter Stastny, Québec, New Jersey et St-Louis
29 : Ken Dryden, Montréal
28 : Bernie Parent, Boston, Philadelphie et Toronto
if Roy is at 5 those 2 should be around 12-16
27 : Gilbert Perreault, Buffalo
26 : Scott Stevens, Washington, St-Louis et New Jersey
25: Ron Francis, Hartford, Pittsburgh, Caroline et Toronto
24: Peter Forsberg, Québec/Colorado, Philadelphie et Nashville
23: Marcel Dionne, Détroit, Los Angeles et Rangers I really like this one. Marcel Dionne is really underrated.
22 : Brett Hull, Calgary, St-Louis, Dallas, Détroit et Phoenix
21 : Jari Kurri, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Rangers, Anaheim et Colorado
20 : Joe Sakic, Québec/Colorado
19 : Bryan Trottier, Islanders et Pittsburgh
18 : Larry Robinson, Montréal et Los Angeles
17 : Dominik Hasek, Chicago, Buffalo, Détroit et Ottawa
16 : Paul Coffey, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Détroit, Hartford, Philadelphie, Chicago, Caroline et Boston
15 : Bobby Clarke, Philadelphie
14: Denis Potvin, IslandersToo low , 2nd or 3rd best defenseman since expansion. Awesome playoff performer.
13: Guy Lafleur, Montréal, Rangers et Québec
12 : Jaromir Jagr, Pittsburgh, Washington et Rangers
11 : Mike Bossy, Islanders
10: Phil Esposito, Chicago, Boston et Rangers
9: Niklas Lidstrom, Détroit
8: Raymond Bourque, Boston et Colorado
7 : Martin Brodeur, New Jersey No way he was better than Hasek
6 : Steve Yzerman, Détroitagain great player , but no way he is ahead of Bossy or Potvin
5: Patrick Roy, Montréal et Colorado Compared to the other goalies ranked he is a bit too high.
4: Mark Messier, Edmonton, Rangers et Vancouver great player but too high
3 : Mario Lemieux , Pittsburgh
2 : Bobby Orr, Boston et Chicago
1: Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton, Los Angeles, St-Louis et Rangers
I'm really missing Adam Oates and Eric Lindros. Maybe Mark Howe could be included too.

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11-08-2007, 02:15 PM
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Steve Yzerman is far, far too high. I love the guy (who doesn't?), but come on. Ahead of Lafleur, Esposito, Bourque...not a chance
also ahead of Jagr who was head and shoulders ahead of Yzerman in their overlapping primes.

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11-08-2007, 02:17 PM
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I'm surprised nobody caught Crosby making the list. That's a pretty funny joke. I don't care how good he will be, the fact is 2 seasons is not enough to make this list.

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11-08-2007, 02:18 PM
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Only goalie to be MVP
Jose Theodore...

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11-08-2007, 02:31 PM
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Brodeur so close to Roy, and Hasek that far behind them both is a joke.

I'd have Roy 4th here (ahead of Messier), Hasek 8th, Brodeur maybe 16th.

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11-08-2007, 02:33 PM
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Yzerman is too high and Fedorov is too low, and there are a couple of other quibbles, but I think this is a terrific list. I think the panel/committee did an excellent job.

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11-08-2007, 02:40 PM
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Most glaring omissions: Oates, Modano, Gilmour...

some others are a little too high like Yzerman... but overall it's pretty debateable

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11-08-2007, 02:46 PM
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Most glaring omissions: Oates, Modano, Gilmour...

some others are a little too high like Yzerman... but overall it's pretty debateable
who would you drop for Gilmour? Crosby is the big one, but I could think of others I'd replace him with before Gilmour. Gilmour just doesn't deserve to be there.

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11-08-2007, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I'm surprised nobody caught Crosby making the list. That's a pretty funny joke. I don't care how good he will be, the fact is 2 seasons is not enough to make this list.
How good he will be??? Was anyone after the top 10 better than Crosby is now? Oh yeah,he has to play at the same level he plays now for at least 8 years.

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11-08-2007, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
who would you drop for Gilmour? Crosby is the big one, but I could think of others I'd replace him with before Gilmour. Gilmour just doesn't deserve to be there.
Gilmour should be there over Crosby, Nieuwendyk, Anderson and Robitaille. It gets tricky when you look at a short-career case like Bure or Neely, so I won't get into that.

Gilmour's peak was much better than that of Anderson and Nieuwendyk, and his playoffs were just as good. Luc Robitaille was an excellent goal scorer, but Gilmour was better at every other aspect of hockey, and better in the playoffs. Crosby just shouldn't be there. On accomplishment alone, Joe Thornton and Jarome Iginla should rank ahead of him.

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11-08-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
who would you drop for Gilmour? Crosby is the big one, but I could think of others I'd replace him with before Gilmour. Gilmour just doesn't deserve to be there.
I think Gilmour had a higher peak and a better overall career than Glenn Anderson. Anderson was a part of some spectacular teams, but Gilmour was one of the league's absolute best for 2 and a half years which Anderson cannot claim to have been.

Also, I'm a bit disappointed that Eric Lindros is missing from this list. He was certainly more dominant than any one of Luc Robitaille or Rob Blake ever were. If they take Crosby's two and a half years of excellence, why not Lindros 8 years of prime hockey?

Scott Niedermayer is rated way, way, way too high. As far as individual dominance goes, Niedermayer was scoring under 40 points for most of his career, and only broke out in 2004. He's had about 3 years of Norris calibre play. Sure, he was a part of some great teams, but he was a part of the equation on the Devils, not the be all of their success.

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11-08-2007, 03:08 PM
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Brodeur is like Tom Brady, Hasek is like Manning. I want the guy who shows up when it's crunch time, when the playoffs start. Brodeur is the guy who will take you to the top.Goalies should not be in the same category as players anyway, there is always a bias against goalies in these lists.

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11-08-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
In their defence the voting panel is different, therefore different results.

Since I'm sure everyone else will criticize, I'll join the party:

Rated too high: Kurri, Perreault, Brodeur, Forsberg, Bossy

Rated too low: Dryden, Chelios, Fedorov, Hasek, Lafleur

Shouldn't be on the list: Nieuwendyk, Blake, Robitaille, Crosby

Most glaring omissions: Oates, Gilmour, McDonald, Mark Howe
i would agree with this.

fedorov at 60 and nieuwendyk at 40 is just bizarre. i'm guessing it's because of nieuwendyk's playoffs, except fedorov was also better in the playoffs than nieuwendyk.

hasek at 17 is ridiculous. he has to be in the top 10. i have no idea how someone could put brodeur ahead of him. hasek should be the top goalie, imo, but close to roy.

dryden should probably be about where they put hasek.

niedermayer ahead of leetch? the only thing niedermayer did better was skate. leetch's smythe was about 10000x more impressive. i don't even think niedermayer is much better than blake.

messier i think should be a few spots lower.

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11-08-2007, 03:11 PM
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Hard to rank guys like Hull/Mikita/Mahovlich whose careers were halved by the 1967 cutoff.
Which is why a list with an arbitrary cut-off is meaningless (yes I realize that 67 was the final year of the orig 6 but it is still a meaningless cut-off), I hear they have a sequel book coming out called the 60 greatest since 1980 so they can eliminate dinasaurs like Orr & Hull (Bobby) from the list completely and move Crosby even higher,

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11-08-2007, 03:13 PM
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Can someone translate the article from French?

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