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Consecutive seasons of Vezina recognition

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Old
09-30-2013, 12:56 AM
  #1
TheDevilMadeMe
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Consecutive seasons of Vezina recognition

This is an update to a post I made during the HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All-Time project. Updated to include Lundqvist's Vezina votes from last season.

Note that the NHL has increased from 21 teams in the 1980s to 30 teams in the late 90s and beyond. So the number of GMs voting on the Vezina went from 21 to 30. Makes it easier to get more votes in modern days? Maybe. Maybe not - with 30 teams, you now have 30 starting goalies all of whom could hit a hot streak and get Vezina votes. We're talking consistency as a top goalie here - not peak - so being "capped" at 21 or 30 votes doesn't matter so much.

A "vote" is when an NHL GM gives the goalie his 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place vote for the Vezina.

Most consecutive seasons with at least 2 Vezina votes
14. Martin Brodeur (1994-2008)
9. Dominik Hasek (1994-2002)
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Grant Fuhr (1984-1989)
6. Patrick Roy (1987-1992)
5. Ed Belfour (1991-1995)
5. Roberto Luongo (2004-2009)
4. John Vanbiesbrouck (1986-1989)
4. Patrick Roy (2000-2003)
4. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2008)
3. Mike Liut (1986-1988)
3. Ron Hextall (1987-1989)
3. Bryan Hayward (1987-1989)
3. John Vanbiesbrouck (1994-1996)
3. Ed Belfour (1998-2000)
3. Curtis Joseph (1999-2001)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Nicklas Backstrom (2007-2009)
3. Evgeni Nabokov (2008-2010)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 3 Vezina votes
14. Martin Brodeur (1994-2008)
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Dominik Hasek (1994-1999)
5. Grant Fuhr (1985-1989)
5. Patrick Roy (1988-1992)
5. Ed Belfour (1991-1995)
4. Patrick Roy (2000-2003)
4. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2008)
3. John Vanbiesbrouck (1994-1996)
3. Ed Belfour (1998-2000)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Roberto Luongo (2007-2009)
3. Evgeni Nabokov (2008-2010)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 4 Vezina votes
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Martin Brodeur (1996-2001)
5. Patrick Roy (1988-1992)
5. Martin Brodeur (2003-2008)
3. Grant Fuhr (1986-1988)
3. Ed Belfour (1991-1993)
3. Dominik Hasek (1997-1999)
3. Patrick Roy (2001-2003)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2007)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 Vezina votes
6. Martin Brodeur (1996-2001)
5. Martin Brodeur (2003-2008)
4. Patrick Roy (1989-1992)
4. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2009)
3. Grant Fuhr (1986-1988)
3. Dominik Hasek (1997-1999)
3. Patrick Roy (2001-2003)
3. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2007)
3. Henrik Lundqvist (2011-2013)

Hopefully this will drive in the point of just how difficult it is for a goalie to get recognition season after season in the modern NHL.

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09-30-2013, 04:04 AM
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TAnnala
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Interesting to see Lundy edging Brodeur in the consecutive 4 vote category. I expected Brodeur to be on top on each category. Just solidifies the idea that Lundqvist is the best/most consistent goalie since -06.

Is there a list on which amount of those votes were 1st, 2nd or 3rd place votes?

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09-30-2013, 09:21 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Interesting to see Lundy edging Brodeur in the consecutive 4 vote category. I expected Brodeur to be on top on each category. Just solidifies the idea that Lundqvist is the best/most consistent goalie since -06.
Yup, Brodeur was a single vote in 2002 away from making it 12 straight. (Also 2 votes from making it 12 straight in the 5 vote category).

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Is there a list on which amount of those votes were 1st, 2nd or 3rd place votes?
Nope, but all the source data is in the stickied thread.

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09-30-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Is there a list on which amount of those votes were 1st, 2nd or 3rd place votes?
This also may help:
http://hockeygoalies.org/awards/vezinavoting.html

Nice work, TDMM!

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09-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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TAnnala
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Yup, Brodeur was a single vote in 2002 away from making it 12 straight. (Also 2 votes from making it 12 straight in the 5 vote category).
It will be interesting to see how Brodeur will be viewed after few years in his retirement. Often players get even more recognition after we have few years to look back at career. Just the fact that he was 2 votes away from having 12 consecutive 5 votes is incredible.
It means that at-least 5 GM's in the world considered him as a top-3 goalie in 12 consecutive years. (Well it would have meant that) We are talking about pretty elite consistency there.

Is there a chance he will jump ahead of Sawchuk, who he is arguably tied with now, into the Hall/Plante territory, right behind Hasek and Roy?

Quote:
Nope, but all the source data is in the stickied thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
This also may help:
http://hockeygoalies.org/awards/vezinavoting.html

Nice work, TDMM!

Thanks!

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09-30-2013, 10:26 AM
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Is there a chance he will jump ahead of Sawchuk, who he is arguably tied with now, into the Hall/Plante territory, right behind Hasek and Roy?
I already have him ahead of Sawchuk and basically tied with Hall (though I realize I'm in the minority there... On this board at least)

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09-30-2013, 10:43 AM
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No surprise to see Lundqvist on these lists. The guy has been such a great goalie since making his debut. I got to think as his career goes on we'll see him higher on these all-time lists.

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09-30-2013, 11:20 AM
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considering lock outs, is it me being bad at math or are the goaltenders that had a streak during the lockout getting an extra year for free?

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09-30-2013, 11:23 AM
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considering lock outs, is it me being bad at math or are the goaltenders that had a streak during the lockout getting an extra year for free?
I don't think they get a "free year" but that the full lockout-year in -05 doesn't cut the streak.

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09-30-2013, 11:23 AM
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I'm surprised Ryan Miller wasn't on one of those lists. He had a period of great consistency between the 2nd and 3rd lockouts even if he only had one truly elite season.

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09-30-2013, 11:27 AM
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Lundqvist had 4 votes in 2010 right? If the Rangers made the playoffs that year I am sure he would have 8 consecutive seasons with at least 5 votes.

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09-30-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I don't think they get a "free year" but that the full lockout-year in -05 doesn't cut the streak.
It's possible I have an error here or there, but this is what I was going for.

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Lundqvist had 4 votes in 2010 right? If the Rangers made the playoffs that year I am sure he would have 8 consecutive seasons with at least 5 votes.
Correct

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09-30-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
I'm surprised Ryan Miller wasn't on one of those lists. He had a period of great consistency between the 2nd and 3rd lockouts even if he only had one truly elite season.
Miller's Vezina record (via Taco's site which is much easier to navigate that the hfboards data thread):

2006-07: 0-0-4
2009-10: 23-3-2

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09-30-2013, 02:10 PM
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Miller gets screwed by the Gomez injury in 09, he was outplaying Lundqvist at that time. He actually was putting together a pretty decent upward trajectory between 08 and 10 until he got concussed in the 10-11 preseason, then again by Lucic the following year.

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09-30-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Most consecutive seasons with at least 3 Vezina votes
14. Martin Brodeur (1994-2008)
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
I would be amazed if anyone on HOH would have had Brodeur or Lundqvist on their ballot in more than half of those seasons (Brodeur in 2002... seriously?).

Going by last Summer's voting record thread, neither TheDevilMadeMe nor I would have given them more than 7 and 4 respectively.

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09-30-2013, 03:13 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Going by last Summer's voting record thread, neither TheDevilMadeMe nor I would have given them more than 7 and 4 respectively.
This is not true

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09-30-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It's possible I have an error here or there, but this is what I was going for.



Correct
8 consecutive seasons of having at least 5 Vezina votes would have been insane. Too bad the Rangers couldn't have won that shootout.


Last edited by bigbuffalo313: 09-30-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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09-30-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Most consecutive seasons with at least 2 Vezina votes
14. Martin Brodeur (1994-2008)
9. Dominik Hasek (1994-2002)
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Grant Fuhr (1984-1989)
6. Patrick Roy (1987-1992)
5. Ed Belfour (1991-1995)
5. Roberto Luongo (2004-2009)
4. John Vanbiesbrouck (1986-1989)
4. Patrick Roy (2000-2003)
4. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2008)
3. Mike Liut (1986-1988)
3. Ron Hextall (1987-1989)
3. Bryan Hayward (1987-1989)
3. John Vanbiesbrouck (1994-1996)
3. Ed Belfour (1998-2000)
3. Curtis Joseph (1999-2001)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Nicklas Backstrom (2007-2009)
3. Evgeni Nabokov (2008-2010)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 3 Vezina votes
14. Martin Brodeur (1994-2008)
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Dominik Hasek (1994-1999)
5. Grant Fuhr (1985-1989)
5. Patrick Roy (1988-1992)
5. Ed Belfour (1991-1995)
4. Patrick Roy (2000-2003)
4. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2008)
3. John Vanbiesbrouck (1994-1996)
3. Ed Belfour (1998-2000)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Roberto Luongo (2007-2009)
3. Evgeni Nabokov (2008-2010)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 4 Vezina votes
8. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2013)
6. Martin Brodeur (1996-2001)
5. Patrick Roy (1988-1992)
5. Martin Brodeur (2003-2008)
3. Grant Fuhr (1986-1988)
3. Ed Belfour (1991-1993)
3. Dominik Hasek (1997-1999)
3. Patrick Roy (2001-2003)
3. Marty Turco (2003-2006)
3. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2007)

Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 Vezina votes
6. Martin Brodeur (1996-2001)
5. Martin Brodeur (2003-2008)
4. Patrick Roy (1989-1992)
4. Henrik Lundqvist (2006-2009)
3. Grant Fuhr (1986-1988)
3. Dominik Hasek (1997-1999)
3. Patrick Roy (2001-2003)
3. Miikka Kiprusoff (2004-2007)
3. Henrik Lundqvist (2011-2013)

Hopefully this will drive in the point of just how difficult it is for a goalie to get recognition season after season in the modern NHL.
Right, and that last group of seasons with at least 5 Vezina votes has pretty much everyone of them in the HHOF. Brodeur, Roy, Fuhr and Hasek. Lundqvist expected to join them someday while Kipper falls short I think.

Even the group with just 3 Vezina votes has mostly HHOFers. Same core, but add Belfour. Kipper and Nabokov won't get in there, neither will Turco. But Luongo is a guy I wouldn't count out yet.

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09-30-2013, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I would be amazed if anyone on HOH would have had Brodeur or Lundqvist on their ballot in more than half of those seasons (Brodeur in 2002... seriously?).

Going by last Summer's voting record thread, neither TheDevilMadeMe nor I would have given them more than 7 and 4 respectively.
Agreed.

GMs voting is a real dumb idea in my eyes. Cleary some of them are paying no attention at all to the merits of the goalies in the particular season they are voting.

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09-30-2013, 06:08 PM
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seems like we could take AST voting for Gs and do a longer analysis of league size and consecutive years of recognition. from 6 to 12 team, for example, or the successive expansions between that and 17 and 21 team leagues.

not volunteering to do it, nor am i demanding that someone else do it for me. just throwing it out there.

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09-30-2013, 06:15 PM
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Agreed.

GMs voting is a real dumb idea in my eyes. Cleary some of them are paying no attention at all to the merits of the goalies in the particular season they are voting.
I'm sure they would not have put Ovechkin on both all star teams this season.

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09-30-2013, 06:34 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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I'm sure they would not have put Ovechkin on both all star teams this season.
you underestimate people's ability to stubbornly argue anything to the death.

"he's a LW."

"no he's a RW you [name calling]. i watched the games."

"no i watched the games. [returns name calling]"

"[cites source, insults intelligence]"

"if you watch that one third period where they stack him, backstrom, and ribeiro one one line, you can clearly see that it's ribeiro on the RW and ovechkin on the LW. which means that [yada yada yada, something about natural positions and something else seemingly unrelated about strength linemates and unequal opportunities]."

"[more namecalling]"

"[more namecalling]"

"[random, extremely detailed discussion of jagr, selanne, and a bunch of red wings]"

"[mod warning]"

"[something about strength of competition across eras and 'integration' of european players]"

"[something elliptical about handedness and the 1960s habs]"

"[mod locks thread]."

and with nothing constructive accomplished, we'd have the vote split between ovechkin on both ASTs.

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09-30-2013, 11:44 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is not true
You said you would have voted for Brodeur in 2008 (1st), 2007 (1st), 2004 (2nd), 2003 (1st), 2000 (2nd), 1998 (2nd), and 1997 (2nd). That is seven seasons.

You said you would have voted for Lundqvist in 2012 (1st), 2009 (3rd), and 2006 (2nd). Assuming you had Lundqvist in a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd spot in 2013, that would make four seasons for him.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=18


If your mind has changed, so be it, but according to that thread, what I said was true.

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10-01-2013, 05:35 PM
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I'm sure they would not have put Ovechkin on both all star teams this season.
To be fair, Ovechkin did switch from left to right wing during the season.

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10-01-2013, 05:52 PM
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Right, and that last group of seasons with at least 5 Vezina votes has pretty much everyone of them in the HHOF. Brodeur, Roy, Fuhr and Hasek. Lundqvist expected to join them someday while Kipper falls short I think.

Even the group with just 3 Vezina votes has mostly HHOFers. Same core, but add Belfour. Kipper and Nabokov won't get in there, neither will Turco. But Luongo is a guy I wouldn't count out yet.
It's kinda funny that the "line", as it stands now, could be drawn at 3x5 votes or 5x3 votes. PEDMAS/BEDMAS approved!

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