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Is Shea Weber a top 5 player?

View Poll Results: Is Shea Weber a top 5 player?
Yes 67 40.36%
No 55 33.13%
He's top 10-20 44 26.51%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-12-2012, 02:25 PM
  #76
MeowLeafs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
myth
Suter is definitely better defensively. But don't mistake the word "definitely" to mean that the gap is significant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
He isn't that superior defensively, though. He is slightly better. He isn't significantly better. People seem to think otherwise, but it's wrong.
Slightly better, yes, but still enough that I think it covers his offensive "shortfall".

Suter is just the better shutdown dman, who also brings decent offensive abilities with him. He might not be as flashy or physical as Weber, or have as hard a shot, but I just trust him more if that makes sense.

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Old
10-12-2012, 02:28 PM
  #77
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There are only 3 'real' top 5 players in the league.

Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos. The other two slots are filled by opinion and bias. The former are not debatable.

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Old
10-12-2012, 03:04 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm not saying Quick wasn't good until this year, I'm only saying that Ovechkin and Sedin have been consistently better than him until now, and one year isn't enough to change my mind.
I have a lot of respect for Henrik Sedin and as much as I despise most of his teammates I acknowledge that they would probably be the best team in the West if not for the Kings being backstopped by Jonathan Quick.

To my delight, if he stays healthy, he could almost single-handedly close the Canucks championship window. As of today, I strongly believe that Quick is the most impactful player in the league and that no team will be more negatively impacted by him than the Canucks.

Back on topic I listed Henrik behind Weber but the more I think about it the more I think Henrik should be 4 and Weber should be 5. Weber is top 5 player but he's very much on the bubble.

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Old
10-12-2012, 03:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
It's just not a coincidence Toews and Datsyuk have Cups... keep thinking that though. Datsyuk was injured in 2008 if I recall... other than he's almost consistently awesome.

lol at Toews going into hibernation... he scored as much if not more than Hank, and you know, provided this little thing called Selke caliber defense.
Did you watch Toews in the 1st round vs Vancouver in 2011? He was absolutely brutal.

As for Weber top 5? Definitely not. Top 15. Yes.

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10-12-2012, 03:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
I think Doughty will change people's minds again after the next full season, but I'm very high on Chara.
Certainly Doughty, he's been on the bring of Norris worthiness the last few years, but the contract holdout and injuries have held him back from the elite tier. And given what we saw from doughty this playoffs healthy, with real offensive talent, and with a better system, Doughty might be able to hit 15goals/60pts this year while being a top pairing defensive d-man.

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Old
10-12-2012, 03:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MeowLeafs View Post
Suter is definitely better defensively. But don't mistake the word "definitely" to mean that the gap is significant.
well if it's not significant, how the heck is Suter better?

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10-12-2012, 03:32 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Did you watch Toews in the 1st round vs Vancouver in 2011? He was absolutely brutal.

As for Weber top 5? Definitely not. Top 15. Yes.
Lol, are you really considering 1 playoff round of bad play a horrendous playoff performer? Come on man, that's not even close to fair or relevant.

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Old
10-12-2012, 03:42 PM
  #83
TMI
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We aren't discussing other players. We can make threads for that. This is about Weber.

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10-12-2012, 03:44 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowLeafs View Post
Suter is definitely better defensively. But don't mistake the word "definitely" to mean that the gap is significant.



Slightly better, yes, but still enough that I think it covers his offensive "shortfall".

Suter is just the better shutdown dman, who also brings decent offensive abilities with him. He might not be as flashy or physical as Weber, or have as hard a shot, but I just trust him more if that makes sense.
Personally, I don't think Suter is better in any aspect of the game other than passing (maybe) and skating (size difference). I think Suter was able to play to his strengths because Weber was able to do the same. Suter isn't bad (in fact he is great, and I wish we could've kept him), but he isn't better than Weber. He complemented him. Weber is the better all around player as far as I'm concerned.

edit: Now I'm not trying to start anything here, but you did say that Suter's defensive capabilities are better than Weber's, which I consider to be untrue. Suter is slightly better, yes, but it doesn't outweigh other things Weber excels at.

Suter without Weber is likely a less offensively capable defenseman. Let's face it. When you shoot the puck at over 100mph people are going to cover you, and when your partner shoots the puck at over 100mph you are going to pass it to him. Suter has the ability to see plays that don't involve Weber. He's very good at it. However, he still relied on Weber for much of last year. It not for points, for hits. If not for hits, for blocked shots. If not for blocked shots, for leadership.


Last edited by TMI: 10-12-2012 at 03:50 PM.
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Old
10-12-2012, 04:41 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
well if it's not significant, how the heck is Suter better?
Because the difference between their offense isn't huge either. Honestly, I think of Suter and Weber as basically the same in terms of who is better. But if I had to say which was better, then I choose Suter, by the slimmest amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Personally, I don't think Suter is better in any aspect of the game other than passing (maybe) and skating (size difference). I think Suter was able to play to his strengths because Weber was able to do the same. Suter isn't bad (in fact he is great, and I wish we could've kept him), but he isn't better than Weber. He complemented him. Weber is the better all around player as far as I'm concerned.

edit: Now I'm not trying to start anything here, but you did say that Suter's defensive capabilities are better than Weber's, which I consider to be untrue. Suter is slightly better, yes, but it doesn't outweigh other things Weber excels at.

Suter without Weber is likely a less offensively capable defenseman. Let's face it. When you shoot the puck at over 100mph people are going to cover you, and when your partner shoots the puck at over 100mph you are going to pass it to him. Suter has the ability to see plays that don't involve Weber. He's very good at it. However, he still relied on Weber for much of last year. It not for points, for hits. If not for hits, for blocked shots. If not for blocked shots, for leadership.
Along with passing and skating, Suter is also better at moving the puck, 1 vs 1 defense, and defensive positioning.

You say Suter complemented Weber, I say they complemented each other. Suter might score less points without Weber, but so might Weber since he now doesn't have such a rock in Suter on the blueline to cover up his mistakes. In other words, I think Weber will have to focus a bit more on the defensive side of things now that Suter is gone.

"...you did say that Suter's defensive capabilities are better than Weber's, which I consider to be untrue. Suter is slightly better, yes..."

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10-13-2012, 01:41 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm not saying Quick wasn't good until this year, I'm only saying that Ovechkin and Sedin have been consistently better than him until now, and one year isn't enough to change my mind.
Its been 2 years now for Ovy, you can only give him the benefit of the doubt for so long. 85 points sure isn't bad, especially for an off year, but that's not top-5 forward production, neither is 65 points. Especially considering it is he, himself who's holding him back, can't blame the team, system, or linemates considering good players find a way to produce no matter what.

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10-13-2012, 01:43 AM
  #87
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Not in Manhattan, Chicago, or Los Angeles. But, at your local bar I'd say he's the biggest player in the game, playa.

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10-13-2012, 02:31 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Its been 2 years now for Ovy, you can only give him the benefit of the doubt for so long. 85 points sure isn't bad, especially for an off year, but that's not top-5 forward production, neither is 65 points. Especially considering it is he, himself who's holding him back, can't blame the team, system, or linemates considering good players find a way to produce no matter what.
I hear the argument, and I don't think OV belongs in the top-5 category, but certainly top 10. Another down year and he may drop, though.

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10-13-2012, 10:38 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowLeafs View Post
Because the difference between their offense isn't huge either. Honestly, I think of Suter and Weber as basically the same in terms of who is better. But if I had to say which was better, then I choose Suter, by the slimmest amount.



Along with passing and skating, Suter is also better at moving the puck, 1 vs 1 defense, and defensive positioning.

You say Suter complemented Weber, I say they complemented each other. Suter might score less points without Weber, but so might Weber since he now doesn't have such a rock in Suter on the blueline to cover up his mistakes. In other words, I think Weber will have to focus a bit more on the defensive side of things now that Suter is gone.

"...you did say that Suter's defensive capabilities are better than Weber's, which I consider to be untrue. Suter is slightly better, yes..."
scratch your head all you'd like. What I actually said was Suter's defensive capabilities are slightly better, but the rest of his game isn't. It isn't a hard concept.

Great players don't just play one side of the puck.

But what the **** do I know? I've only watched hockey for 20 years, and I've only seen every game both players have played since being drafted (I've seen Ryan Suter in over 500 games, in Shea Weber in nearly 500 games).

Suter is not better at 1 on 1 defense. He is more mobile, but it isn't completely out of the realm of reasonable thought to say a smaller guy is going to be more mobile.

Oh and Weber will have a guy named Roman Josi on his side whenever hockey comes back. The kid isn't Suter, but he isn't a joke either.

There is no debate. Weber is better. I've been telling fellow Preds fans this for a few years now.


Last edited by TMI: 10-13-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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Old
10-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Most overrated in the NHL.
We are talking about Weber not Toews

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10-13-2012, 11:07 AM
  #91
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We are talking about Weber not Toews
Both are overrated by a lot of people here, but both are still among the very best players in the world.

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10-13-2012, 11:21 AM
  #92
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He's the best defenseman in the league

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10-13-2012, 11:22 AM
  #93
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Nope.

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Old
10-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #94
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Close poll :O

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Old
10-13-2012, 12:04 PM
  #95
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Does "No" mean that he's not even a top 20 player in the league? Because I have no idea how there's so many votes there.

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10-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #96
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Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, H Sedin, and Weber. Yup.





I didn't include any goalies because I don't think any of them are good enough to clearly separate them from the pack. We haven't had a Brodeur (young)/Hasek/Roy type goalie who gets nominated for Vezina or Hart on a yearly basis (unless there were injuries involved). The closest we have right now is Lundy and Rinne. Picking a top 5 goalie list changes pretty drastically here on HF on a year to year basis.


Last edited by Rydgar: 10-13-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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10-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Does "No" mean that he's not even a top 20 player in the league? Because I have no idea how there's so many votes there.
I think it's clear it means 6-10.

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10-13-2012, 01:12 PM
  #98
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I say yes. I take Weber before any defenceman in the league both for this upcoming year and going forward.

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10-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #99
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I think it's clear it means 6-10.
Oh. I voted wrongly then. I voted 10-20, but Ieant to say top 10. My bad I guess.

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10-13-2012, 04:43 PM
  #100
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No. Top 5 to me has to have the "it" factor and Weber doesn't do it for me. He doesn't have a signature play or moment that jumps out to me. Smashing Zetterberg's head up against the glass doesn't count.

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