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N. Kadri discussion thread v12

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Old
11-09-2012, 05:44 PM
  #576
vanRiemsdyk21
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Originally Posted by sam slick View Post
i swore when we drafted him. I remember saying to the ole lady that the "leafs better not pick up this guy". Then it happened.

I said he was a dud last year, and i say he is a dud this year. The real bummer is the more we play him, the worse he looks. The more he plays, the more his value goes down.

Kadri is a nothing, he will always be a nothing. We have to let him go and live with the lost pick.

Watched nearly all the marlies games and the kid has no heart....except when he has the puck....albeit a brief period. He tries to beat 2 or 3 guys anytime he touches the puck, then loses it. Then, he has a terrible backcheck to recover it. No desire, no heart, no commitment to get better.

He's done!
amen brother! Amen!

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11-09-2012, 05:56 PM
  #577
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Called him a bust long ago.

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11-09-2012, 06:05 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Kulemin41 View Post
I don't get all the Frattin love? He has done nothing to solidify himself as an NHLer and he's a 25 year year old prospect. This is the problem with Leafs Nation they can't identify real talent and fell in love with marginal hockey players. Believe me I used to guilty of this too but I 've seen the error of my ways.
I have to agree in how we overrate our players when they make the big club. However, in this case Kadri hasn't been given a fair shake in the NHL. All you can do now is give him a shot with the big boys and sink or swim, he's showed flashes of promise but its at the point where he needs to show something or he risks being traded.

But if you are thinking in that circumstance you also have to realize we hardly give our prospects any room to grow. Schenn, Tlusty, Steen, Rask these are a few recent first rounders that we traded away because they didn't show brilliance within a few years. We need to temper expectations, not everyone hops into the NHL at 21 and becomes a franchise player.

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11-09-2012, 06:06 PM
  #579
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Still got potential. Haters gonna hate.

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11-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #580
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I have to agree in how we overrate our players when they make the big club. However, in this case Kadri hasn't been given a fair shake in the NHL. All you can do now is give him a shot with the big boys and sink or swim, he's showed flashes of promise but its at the point where he needs to show something or he risks being traded.

But if you are thinking in that circumstance you also have to realize we hardly give our prospects any room to grow. Schenn, Tlusty, Steen, Rask these are a few recent first rounders that we traded away because they didn't show brilliance within a few years. We need to temper expectations, not everyone hops into the NHL at 21 and becomes a franchise player.
If he had been brought up and left up and learned from his mistakes up with the Leafs I think he woul be a much better player for it.

It's a lot harder to look 19 NHL'ers in the eye after making a OHL mistake than it is sit in the Marlies room. I would think the lesson would sink in quicker.

It sure didn't help that Wilson seemed to just hate the kid.

It's funny that people are ragging on him for making stupid plays like a behind the back pass almost every time he crosses the offensive blueline....Oh wait that is Jason Spezza. Give the kid a break. Let him play on the 3rd line with Bozak/Connolly and Frattin/Kulemin/MacArthur.

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11-09-2012, 07:07 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If he had been brought up and left up and learned from his mistakes up with the Leafs I think he woul be a much better player for it.

It's a lot harder to look 19 NHL'ers in the eye after making a OHL mistake than it is sit in the Marlies room. I would think the lesson would sink in quicker.

It sure didn't help that Wilson seemed to just hate the kid.

It's funny that people are ragging on him for making stupid plays like a behind the back pass almost every time he crosses the offensive blueline....Oh wait that is Jason Spezza. Give the kid a break. Let him play on the 3rd line with Bozak/Connolly and Frattin/Kulemin/MacArthur.
Spezza had 171 points in 123 AHL games, and then scored 21 points in 33 games in the NHL while bouncing back and forth between the two leagues. There was never any doubt about him.

So sure, they might both do behind the back passes. The similarities end there. Spezza's behind the back passes must be working out a lot better for him than they are for Kadri.

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11-09-2012, 07:13 PM
  #582
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kadri will be good, he will shut you haters down.
lets go nazem, this kid will be good. he has heart, he is the only person that actually drives the net on leafs except maybe grabo. he backchecks well, haters hate on him for every season

if anyone is bust, its frattin because he is like 25

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11-09-2012, 07:17 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
kadri will be good, he will shut you haters down.
lets go nazem, this kid will be good. he has heart, he is the only person that actually drives the net on leafs except maybe grabo. he backchecks well, haters hate on him for every season

if anyone is bust, its frattin because he is like 25
Are you all fired up?
Are you ready to go?

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11-09-2012, 07:18 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If he had been brought up and left up and learned from his mistakes up with the Leafs I think he woul be a much better player for it.

It's a lot harder to look 19 NHL'ers in the eye after making a OHL mistake than it is sit in the Marlies room. I would think the lesson would sink in quicker.

It sure didn't help that Wilson seemed to just hate the kid.

It's funny that people are ragging on him for making stupid plays like a behind the back pass almost every time he crosses the offensive blueline....Oh wait that is Jason Spezza. Give the kid a break. Let him play on the 3rd line with Bozak/Connolly and Frattin/Kulemin/MacArthur.
Spezza at the same age was bigger, stronger on the puck, had better vision, and was just more skilled. Spezza had/has the ability to play a puck dominant game at the NHL level and still be very effective, Kadri doesn't seem quite that good. In the OHL he can definitely play that game, in the AHL he can sort of play that game, in the NHL he'll be a detriment to the team playing like that.

Spezza used to make ill advised passes, and still does to a certain extent, but he would rarely just let himself be angled off into an area of the ice where nothing can be done with the puck, he'd either attack the holes in the defence or make the quick pass. Too often Kadri holds onto the puck too long, if you're not going to break down the defence yourselg, pass to a teammate who is in a better position and pressure the defence that way, don't just hold onto the puck and let yourself be herded to the areas the defence want you to go.

Again, the issues with Kadri's game are a bunch of small things, not any one big thing. you don't want him to completely change his game and take out the things that make him special, but he does have to change the aspects of his game that will not work in the NHL. Slightly improved decision making will be key, a willingness to make the quick pass if he doesn't have a good opportunity to break down the defence himself. Slightly improved strength on the puck, so he can more effectively take it into the heart of the defence instead of being forced to the perimeter. Slightly improved positioning without the puck, in both the offensive and defensive zones. Small improvements to these areas will make him an NHLer, IMO.

The Leafs are also a tough team for him to break into. We have a lot of good wingers, if he was on a team like Pittsburgh he'd probably already be an established NHL winger, but for us there's a log jam on the wings. For a centre a strong 2-way game is essential at the NHL level, and Kadri isn't there yet.


Last edited by ponder: 11-09-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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11-09-2012, 07:21 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If he had been brought up and left up and learned from his mistakes up with the Leafs I think he woul be a much better player for it.

It's a lot harder to look 19 NHL'ers in the eye after making a OHL mistake than it is sit in the Marlies room. I would think the lesson would sink in quicker.

It sure didn't help that Wilson seemed to just hate the kid.

It's funny that people are ragging on him for making stupid plays like a behind the back pass almost every time he crosses the offensive blueline....Oh wait that is Jason Spezza. Give the kid a break. Let him play on the 3rd line with Bozak/Connolly and Frattin/Kulemin/MacArthur.
You think he is going to learn for his mistakes in the NHL when he doesn't in the AHL? The AHL is the development league.

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11-09-2012, 07:23 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
You think he is going to learn for his mistakes in the NHL when he doesn't in the AHL? The AHL is the development league.


kadri has less turnovers now. ur watching maybe the first marlies season

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11-09-2012, 07:26 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
kadri has less turnovers now. ur watching maybe the first marlies season
They should have thrown him on third line and left him to sink or swim. He is probably frazzled here in Toronto for the way he has been treated.

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11-09-2012, 07:28 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Spezza had 171 points in 123 AHL games, and then scored 21 points in 33 games in the NHL while bouncing back and forth between the two leagues. There was never any doubt about him.

So sure, they might both do behind the back passes. The similarities end there. Spezza's behind the back passes must be working out a lot better for him than they are for Kadri.
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Spezza at the same age was bigger, stronger on the puck, had better vision, and was just more skilled. Spezza had/has the ability to play a puck dominant game at the NHL level and still be very effective, Kadri doesn't seem quite that good. In the OHL he can definitely play that game, in the AHL he can sort of play that game, in the NHL he'll be a detriment to the team playing like that.

Spezza used to make ill advised passes, and still does to a certain extent, but he would rarely just let himself be angled off into an area of the ice where nothing can be done with the puck, he'd either attack the holes in the defence or make the quick pass. Too often Kadri holds onto the puck too long, if you're not going to break down the defence yourselg, pass to a teammate who is in a better position and pressure the defence that way, don't just hold onto the puck and let yourself be herded to the areas the defence want you to go.
And Spezza to this day still makes those stupid behind the back passes 4ft inside the blueline. Not a frequent but hey after nearly a deceade in the NHL he should have learned something.

I am not saying Kadri is on Spezza's level. But he is a skilled player who has a bad habit.

My point is Kadri should just be allowed to find his niche in the NHL. I have no problem if all he turns into is a modern Mike Ricci. But he should be allowed to find his own game.

I would much rather Phaneuf and Grabovski being the ones to hold him accountable than Zigo and Hamilton.

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11-09-2012, 07:28 PM
  #589
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They should have thrown him on third line and left him to sink or swim. He is probably frazzled here in Toronto for the way he has been treated.



agreed, plus 2nd PP time, i still believe in the kid, and believe carlyle will help him, he actually liked him unlike wilson

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11-09-2012, 07:38 PM
  #590
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Burke has a tough call now...

Kadri has value and multiple teams still want him and give him value thats high despite several years of not much progress.

Another year of no progress will cause Kadri's value to fall considerably and become worth maybe a 2nd and more likely a 3rd or less.

I proposed the idea of dealing Kadri and a first in 2014 for a top 15 pick this year to grab another elite prospect to go along with our own pick this year so 2 firsts in 2013

The rationale is that Kadri value will fall and that Burke will have huge $$$$ to grab FA after this season and will go after 1/2 players of elite talent. The team will make a huge step forward in 2014 with Rielly and possibly Monahan being on the Leafs and perhaps a Perry/Getzlaf. Thus the pick in 2014 will not be a top 10 and possible not a top 15

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11-09-2012, 07:39 PM
  #591
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You think he is going to learn for his mistakes in the NHL when he doesn't in the AHL? The AHL is the development league.
Yes.

NHLer's will hold him more accountable for his errors than AHLer's ever could.

Forget the coach's I am talking about the other players in the dressing room holding him accountable.

Like SPezza, how is Kadri supposed to learn his OHL tricks don't cut it in the NHL if he doesn't play in the NHL?

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11-09-2012, 07:41 PM
  #592
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And what has Frattin done? That's not a very good argument.
I'm on vacation but if we were to give up on players such some are here on Kadri there are players who are right now reliable forwards in the league that would be playing in the KHL or SEL.

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It's funny how people don't realize that patience especially for skilled and talented players take time to figure it all out.

Logan Couture...Claude Giroux...Loui Ericksson...T.J. Oshie...David Backes...Chris Kunitz...Pavel Datsyuk...Henrik Zetterberg...Tomas Pleckanec...Ryan Kesler...Nathan Horton....Stephen Weiss....and god knows how many more. All have taken their sweet time, they all have taken different paths before they hit their stride, their ETA to the league for consistency? Age 24, before that? 22-21ish showing flashes of brilliance but not getting it down aka having all the tools but no toolbox. I am not worried about him at all. Everyone of those players have taken their time and made a good pace for the bigs, some have made amazing impact ofc. He'll be fine, people praise Frattin over Kadri not realizing Matt has already had 3+ years of development.
Look at when each of those individual players were drafted and when they finally decided to hit their stride for their NHL career. Everyone is unique and everyone has their own tale to tell.

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11-09-2012, 07:42 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Yes.

NHLer's will hold him more accountable for his errors than AHLer's ever could.

Forget the coach's I am talking about the other players in the dressing room holding him accountable.

Like SPezza, how is Kadri supposed to learn his OHL tricks don't cut it in the NHL if he doesn't play in the NHL?
I believe in some cases NHL development is better than AHL. Kadri is a prime example

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11-09-2012, 07:43 PM
  #594
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They should have thrown him on third line and left him to sink or swim. He is probably frazzled here in Toronto for the way he has been treated.
Wilson really did need a kick in the balls for the way he was talking about Kadri as an 19 and 20yr old.

Third line for the year and accept what happens.

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11-09-2012, 07:48 PM
  #595
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And Spezza to this day still makes those stupid behind the back passes 4ft inside the blueline. Not a frequent but hey after nearly a deceade in the NHL he should have learned something.

I am not saying Kadri is on Spezza's level. But he is a skilled player who has a bad habit.

My point is Kadri should just be allowed to find his niche in the NHL. I have no problem if all he turns into is a modern Mike Ricci. But he should be allowed to find his own game.

I would much rather Phaneuf and Grabovski being the ones to hold him accountable than Zigo and Hamilton.
I do think this is a solid point. Supremely talented players like Spezza, Ovy, Kovy, Kessel, Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, etc. can afford to really hold onto the puck, because they're good enough to consistently break down defences even when there isn't a clear hole. Kadri isn't quite that good, I think he'll have to change his game more and learn to be a bit more of a role player, but it could be that he'll learn to make these changes better in the NHL than the AHL. You do sometimes get the feeling that he thinks he's too good for the AHL, that he might not want to make the quick pass because he feels he'd be passing it to an under talented player, maybe he'd be more willing to look for the quick pass in the NHL. I can't find the quote, but I do remember him making some comments a month or two ago that hinted at him seeing the AHL as a bit beneath him, something along the lines of "in the AHL there are a lot of guys just headhunting and not even playing the puck, I think I'd do better in the NHL where it's more of a skill game." I'm completely paraphrasing here, but he did say something along those lines fairly recently.

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11-09-2012, 07:48 PM
  #596
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Wilson really did need a kick in the balls for the way he was talking about Kadri as an 19 and 20yr old.

Third line for the year and accept what happens.
Kadri comes off as cocky and a bit of an egomaniac, good qualities to have sometimes but that will never translate into performance when so called authoraties ie. Wilson are throwing the kid under the bus, Eakins did it this year in camp and how is he performing? I rest my case.

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11-09-2012, 07:57 PM
  #597
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Kadri comes off as cocky and a bit of an egomaniac, good qualities to have sometimes but that will never translate into performance when so called authoraties ie. Wilson are throwing the kid under the bus, Eakins did it this year in camp and how is he performing? I rest my case.
You can only hit a Rolls Royce so many times before it too is nothing but a POS.

Tough love is one thing. Bashing him at every turn is another.

For 3yrs The kid gets told to put on weight. So this past summer he goes to Roberts and says I need to put on weight. Then he shows up in training camp heavier and Eakins says he's fat and out of shape.

Just the heck is he supposed to win?

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11-09-2012, 08:01 PM
  #598
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I do think this is a solid point. Supremely talented players like Spezza, Ovy, Kovy, Kessel, Datsyuk, Crosby, Malkin, etc. can afford to really hold onto the puck, because they're good enough to consistently break down defences even when there isn't a clear hole. Kadri isn't quite that good, I think he'll have to change his game more and learn to be a bit more of a role player, but it could be that he'll learn to make these changes better in the NHL than the AHL. You do sometimes get the feeling that he thinks he's too good for the AHL, that he might not want to make the quick pass because he feels he'd be passing it to an under talented player, maybe he'd be more willing to look for the quick pass in the NHL. I can't find the quote, but I do remember him making some comments a month or two ago that hinted at him seeing the AHL as a bit beneath him, something along the lines of "in the AHL there are a lot of guys just headhunting and not even playing the puck, I think I'd do better in the NHL where it's more of a skill game." I'm completely paraphrasing here, but he did say something along those lines fairly recently.
It has nothing to do with being as good as Spezza or Malkin or the others you mentioned.

The point is Kadri is a very talented player who has a bad habit. I think NHL'ers holding him accountable is going to get the message accross much better than some carreer AHLers or former 4th liner.

HE doesn't need Zigomanis giving him a dirty look across the dressing room. He needs Dion Phaneuf smashing him in practice and telling him if he F's up like that again he'll get smoked in practice again.

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11-09-2012, 08:05 PM
  #599
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Or he is a bust.

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11-09-2012, 08:06 PM
  #600
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You can only hit a Rolls Royce so many times before it too is nothing but a POS.

Tough love is one thing. Bashing him at every turn is another.

For 3yrs The kid gets told to put on weight. So this past summer he goes to Roberts and says I need to put on weight. Then he shows up in training camp heavier and Eakins says he's fat and out of shape.

Just the heck is he supposed to win?
this is what happens everytime he opens his mouth.

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