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N. Kadri discussion thread v12

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:18 AM
  #726
Sundinisagod
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Originally Posted by meng666 View Post
Of course it will be accepted well here. 50% of the posters think he is a terrible bust and the other 50 think he has plenty of potential. U are just part of a big camp.
He was picked 7th not first. He will play in the nhl eventually. If he is a bust to you then u set your standards way too high for a 7th overall pick. Who ever said he was going to be a perrenial all star?

A legit top 6 forward would be adequate.

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11-10-2012, 11:34 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
A legit top 6 forward would be adequate.
Well it's a good thing we didn't end up with the 5th pick that year and gotten B. Schenn cuz you would be really upset by this point.
B. Schenn has averaged less points in the nhl and for all the intangibles he supposedly brings I highly doubt he has drawn as many penalties, handed out as many sweet passes and laid out as many big hits as Kadri has. Not saying that Kadri is going to be better then Schenn but at this point he has the edge professionally (unless you want to go showing ahl stats, but do you really want to go there?). According to your reasoning Schenn is a complete bust! Let's trade D'amigo for him.

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11-10-2012, 11:52 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
My expectations from a 7th overall would be an excellent top 6 forward / top 4 defense...is that askin too much?
Each draft is different, so you can't really just arbitrarily assign some expected value to a guy because he was taken at 7th overall. But if you're going to....

Forwards picked in Kadri's range (6-8) from '00-'09:
Scott Hartnell
Nikita Alexeev
Mikko Koivu
Scottie Upshall
Joffrey Lupul
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Milan Michalek
Rostislav Olesz
Alexandre Picard
Gilbert Brule
Jack Skille
Devin Setoguchi
Derick Brassard
Kyle Okposo
Peter Mueller
Sam Gagner
Jakub Voracek
Zach Hamill
Nikita Filatov
Colin Wilson
Mikkel Boedker
Scott Glennie

You'd be mighty disappointed in a lot of these guys for not looking like "excellent top-six forwards" at 22.


Last edited by Kyle Doobas: 11-10-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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11-10-2012, 01:18 PM
  #729
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I am stunned at the numbers of Kadri defenders there are out there. To date he has accomplished next to nothing in pro hockey. Great tools but completely lacking the tool box to put them in.

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11-10-2012, 01:31 PM
  #730
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um, ok.

That was last year. How is he doing this year?
I am sorry but last I checked in the pre-season of the NHL club he made it. THis year there is none.
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Colin Wilson was drafted #7 overall in 2008 (the year previous to Kadri)

&

Jeff Skinner was drafted #7 overall in 2010 (the year after Kadri)

They seem to be performing at the NHL level.
Skinner was brilliant not many saw the offense in him that others did after hall, but they also noted he was physically not ready, lo and behold, concussion and hasn't been as great after his return. Not sure how he is with the checkers as I haven't kept an eye on them yet.

Don't give me Colin Wilson talk, the guy has been benched, sat through an entire playoff series but people here who praise Barry trotz's defensive system. He was and sometimes still is in the doghouse, was heavily speculated was the reason we were after him along with JVR when we are finally about to trade Schenner. Wilson has immense skill but his defensive game wasn't upto par and was buried under their center depth there and still wasn't moving along even him being a high round pick. Yet neither of the pred fans complain or will budge or move him unless it's for a top line forward. Why? Simple, they don't want to trade him for scraps like many do with Kadri. Only edge Wilson has over Kadri and Skinner simply is his strength and god's given body. His a crazy boy regarding his workout but that still wasn't good for Trotz and he was sat down in the NHL level, here people are complain about that in the AHL level.

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:47 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
You'd be mighty disappointed in a lot of these guys for not looking like "excellent top-six forwards" at 22.
And shouldn't you be? Will all 7th picks become a top 6 forward? of course not. But when you make the pick that's what you hope to get and it certainly disappointing when you pick that high and come away with a bottom 6 forward or less.

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11-10-2012, 02:49 PM
  #732
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And shouldn't you be? Will all 7th picks become a top 6 forward? of course not. But when you make the pick that's what you hope to get
Well obviously you hope every draft pick pans out to be something special, but if you're looking at it historically, it doesn't really make sense to be declaring your former 7th overall pick a "bust" just because he has yet to make a significant impact in the NHL at 22.


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11-10-2012, 03:22 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Well obviously you hope every draft pick pans out to be something special, but if you're looking at it historically, it doesn't really make sense to be declaring your former 7th overall pick a "bust" just because he has yet to make a significant impact in the NHL at 22.
would you agree that a 22 year old 7th pick (in the first round) who doesn't make an impact in the AHL a bust?

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11-10-2012, 03:41 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Colin Wilson was drafted #7 overall in 2008 (the year previous to Kadri)

&

Jeff Skinner was drafted #7 overall in 2010 (the year after Kadri)

They seem to be performing at the NHL level.
You are just supporting my point. Skinner is a top line player and Colin Wilson at this point is a 3rd liner who doesn't need to be a 1st liner because he is a big, strong center who can do other things than score and will likely develop into a good two way, second line center. Kadri was picked at #7 to be an offensive leader on an NHL team, anything less than that would officially be a disappointment seeing as he has absolutely nothing else to offer. Kadri was a boom or bust pick, unfortunately he looks to be alot closer to the latter than the former.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:02 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
would you agree that a 22 year old 7th pick (in the first round) who doesn't make an impact in the AHL a bust?
Well, considering he's been right around a PPG in the AHL since being there.... I don't think he would fall into that category? Basic stats also don't take into account his improvement in a number of areas of his game as well, or the penalties he drew. Not sure where your argument is headed....



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11-10-2012, 04:04 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You are just supporting my point. Skinner is a top line player and Colin Wilson at this point is a 3rd liner who doesn't need to be a 1st liner because he is a big, strong center who can do other things than score and will likely develop into a good two way, second line center. Kadri was picked at #7 to be an offensive leader on an NHL team, anything less than that would officially be a disappointment seeing as he has absolutely nothing else to offer. Kadri was a boom or bust pick, unfortunately he looks to be alot closer to the latter than the former.
Pretty sure Naz WASN'T picked to lead this offense..... We have a guy by the name of Kessel for that. Kadri was picked to be a top-6 forward, with excellent vision and playmaking abilities, and some sandpaper to his game. Outside of establishing himself as a top-6 forward, the other parts of his game haven't changed.

It's what others EXPECT him to be, that he's not living up to. Not what he was SUPPOSED to be. There is a big difference.

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11-10-2012, 04:22 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by meng666 View Post
Well it's a good thing we didn't end up with the 5th pick that year and gotten B. Schenn cuz you would be really upset by this point.
B. Schenn has averaged less points in the nhl and for all the intangibles he supposedly brings I highly doubt he has drawn as many penalties, handed out as many sweet passes and laid out as many big hits as Kadri has. Not saying that Kadri is going to be better then Schenn but at this point he has the edge professionally (unless you want to go showing ahl stats, but do you really want to go there?). According to your reasoning Schenn is a complete bust! Let's trade D'amigo for him.
I'm sorry but the guy who has a full time spot on an NHL team as the edge professionally.

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11-10-2012, 04:23 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Well, considering he's been right around a PPG in the AHL since being there.... I don't think he would fall into that category? Basic stats also don't take into account his improvement in a number of areas of his game as well, or the penalties he drew. Not sure where your argument is headed....



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AHL 44 games 17 goals 24 assists 41 points 62 PIM +2

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AHL 48 games 18 goals 22 assists 40 points 39 PIM +2
he's struggling in '12-'13. i'm also not so impressed with his AHL stats. if you use that argument then guys like Zigomanis and Aucoin look like superstars. if you're going to argue that Naz should be with the big club because he's a 22 year old getting a point per game then players like Ryan Hamilton should be up with the club full-time.

some people predicted this: the lock-out has filled the AHL with players that might normally be playing at the NHL level. Kadri is struggling against a stronger league, and if he doesn't turn it around he might never get any opportunity to show the Leafs that he belongs on the team.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:28 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Pretty sure Naz WASN'T picked to lead this offense..... We have a guy by the name of Kessel for that.
I'm not sure what your point is here, since Kadri was picked by the Leafs before Burke traded for Kessel.

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11-10-2012, 04:49 PM
  #740
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I'm not sure what your point is here, since Kadri was picked by the Leafs before Burke traded for Kessel.
My point stands either way. Tell me one reputable person who expected him to lead the offense....

I won't hold my breath...

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11-10-2012, 05:04 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
My point stands either way. Tell me one reputable person who expected him to lead the offense....

I won't hold my breath...
I think you need to put his feet to the fire and let the kid play. Its stupid to not give him a chance in the NHL. If he makes it great if not so be it, better than the Joey Crabbs of the world taking up spots.

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11-10-2012, 05:10 PM
  #742
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Kadri is taking a detour on his quest to the NHL but as with Tlusty, Steen, Sullivan, etc. you can't really give up on them when they're at a low point.

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11-10-2012, 05:18 PM
  #743
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So if kadri continues the way hes playing and gets a call up to the leafs and struggles, hes a 23 year old rookie in the nhl, he needs to adjust to the game. and if he struggles the year after, hes only 24 years old, hes only had one pro season on his belt, its a sophomore slump. at what point do the excuses stop?

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11-10-2012, 05:24 PM
  #744
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I think you need to put his feet to the fire and let the kid play. Its stupid to not give him a chance in the NHL. If he makes it great if not so be it, better than the Joey Crabbs of the world taking up spots.
Absolutely this. We know he hasthe tools, he's a smart kid, it's just a matter of management and the coaches giving him a vote of confidence, and letting him figure it out in the NHL.

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11-10-2012, 06:58 PM
  #745
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Just as a total crackpot theory: I wonder if he's playing half assed cuz he knows he's being traded for Luongo? Some pretty solid rumors floating about. Why crash the net and get your head taken off for the Leafs if you are about to get traded. If he's a centre piece in a Luongo trade you can bet yer ass that he will get real playing time in Vancouver.


Or maybe he just sucks this year.

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11-10-2012, 07:06 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by meng666 View Post
Just as a total crackpot theory: I wonder if he's playing half assed cuz he knows he's being traded for Luongo? Some pretty solid rumors floating about. Why crash the net and get your head taken off for the Leafs if you are about to get traded. If he's a centre piece in a Luongo trade you can bet yer ass that he will get real playing time in Vancouver.


Or maybe he just sucks this year.
I dont even know if I would trade kadri for lou straight up...I guess if it were him and Bozak but we get Lou and one of there prospects.

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11-10-2012, 07:06 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Pretty sure Naz WASN'T picked to lead this offense..... We have a guy by the name of Kessel for that. Kadri was picked to be a top-6 forward, with excellent vision and playmaking abilities, and some sandpaper to his game. Outside of establishing himself as a top-6 forward, the other parts of his game haven't changed.

It's what others EXPECT him to be, that he's not living up to. Not what he was SUPPOSED to be. There is a big difference.
Reading comprehension appears to be an issue here. I said an offensive leader......not the teams leading scorer. Succesful teams have a group of offensive leaders that the team relies upon. If you don't think that this was the teams expectation of Kadri when they drafted him then you clearly don't understand the way an NHL team is built.

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Old
11-10-2012, 08:45 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Your favourite tatic, "what about ...." Kadri will make it or bust on his own. It happens to thousands of prospects every year. Bringing up other prospects doesn't make the guy you're pimping any better or worse.
It's called citing examples. YOu use it to prove points.

Try it sometime.

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11-10-2012, 08:57 PM
  #749
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By the time Dave was Kadri's age he had a 38 goal season. He didn't play in the minors. Not comparable at all.
Was talking about the reference to Kadri being slow. Much like Andreychuk was slow. Much like Jason Allison was slow.
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Correct. He constantly deflects by bringing up other players etc.
Deflect? LMAo You guys really don't know that debating is about supporting your arguments by citings facts and examples... No wonder this thing goes in circles.
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Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
You're arguing against yourself here pal. Its not a comparison at all.

3 simple questions for you...

1, did I bench Kadri tonight or did one of the best minor coaches in the world bench Kadri?

2. Again, who do you take of the Leaf team to "Hand out" a position to Kadri?

3. Do you agree that Kadri has to "take" a spot from a current leaf, or just be handed a position like a gift?

Here is the simplest way to put it: Would you agree that Kadri THUS FARhas been a bust this season?

Some pretty simple questions that require simple answers.
1. There is no argument that his play this year is subpar.
2. Connolly, Lombardi, Crabb to start with.
3. I think it is unfair for him to have to earn a TOP 6 spot in order to be on the team.
I would be happy with him getting 3rd line minutes, and some 2nd unit PP time.

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11-10-2012, 09:25 PM
  #750
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Well Kadri had 3 points tonight.

Does that means he's our saviour?

No, that'd be about as foolish as claiming that Kadri being benched for a game means he's a bust.

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