HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are there "clutch" players or performances in sports?

View Poll Results: Are there "clutch" players or performances in sports?
Yes 26 68.42%
No 8 21.05%
Undecided 4 10.53%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-17-2012, 02:42 PM
  #126
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
So you agree that there is always pressure. You agree that clutch involves performing the same with or without pressure, but don't see consistency as a factor?

It would seem we were stuck on odd ball semantics.

I think.
I don't agree there is ALWAYS pressure and I don't agree clutch involves playing the same under pressure. Playing well under pressure and playing the same are two very different things.

TroubaFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 02:48 PM
  #127
wpgsilver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
wpgsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,092
vCash: 50
You know you're in a lockout when... You're fighting over semantics regarding the existence of clutchness.
This thread has become people repeating their positions with varying degrees of force and flare.

wpgsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 02:50 PM
  #128
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
You know you're in a lockout when... You're fighting over semantics regarding the existence of clutchness.
This thread has become people repeating their positions with varying degrees of force and flare.
Agreed. Can't we all just agree the 68% of us who voted yes are right and end this lol.

TroubaFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:15 PM
  #129
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Agreed. Can't we all just agree the 68% of us who voted yes are right and end this lol.
Cos democracy always chooses the correct candidate

Kidding aside, I will agree to disagree and also agree neither of our minds will change

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:22 PM
  #130
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
I don't agree there is ALWAYS pressure and I don't agree clutch involves playing the same under pressure. Playing well under pressure and playing the same are two very different things.
This conversation has been very confusing to me...

Re pressure, I said:
Quote:
Clutch is about pressure and there is always pressure in sports.
You quoted exactly that and said:
Quote:
Now you're starting to sound like me. Do you know what side of this arguement you're on?
Now you say:
Quote:
I don't agree there is ALWAYS pressure
Can you understand my confusion?





Re clutch players playing the same or better you said:
Quote:
The defination of clutch is to "play well under pressure" not "play better" under pressure.
You also said:
Quote:
Playing well under pressure and playing the same are two very different things.
There are only 3 possibilities:
Worse
Same
Better

So you don't agree with same, you don't agree with better and I am sure you don't think "playing well" means worse.


I am officially lost.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:40 PM
  #131
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
 
Gump Hasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 222 Tudor Terrace
Posts: 7,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I just try to give the profesional view in most things that exist within the industry, but sometimes I fall to my own emotions too haha :p
The professional view? Are you employed for pay in the hockey industry at a professional level? Isn't that what it takes to offer a professional view, ; ie - the offering of the view of someone gainfully employed within the industry itself? You author a fan-penned blog, correct?

You probably just meant you strive to meet a professional level of journalistic integrity, if so, cool.

Gump Hasek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:50 PM
  #132
scelaton
Registered User
 
scelaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The professional view? Are you employed for pay in the hockey industry at a professional level? Isn't that what it takes to offer a professional view, ; ie - the offering of the view of someone gainfully employed within the industry itself? You author a fan-penned blog, correct?

You probably just meant you strive to meet a professional level of journalistic integrity, if so, cool.
Sounds like we have the makings of a major-league dispute here. Perhaps we should call in Fehr and Bettman to help resolve it.
On second thought......

scelaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #133
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Sounds like we have the makings of a major-league dispute here. Perhaps we should call in Fehr and Bettman to help resolve it.
On second thought......
Water under the bridge.

When you put yourself out there, you expose yourself to criticism.

Not everybody is nice.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 03:58 PM
  #134
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The professional view? Are you employed for pay in the hockey industry at a professional level? Isn't that what it takes to offer a professional view, ; ie - the offering of the view of someone gainfully employed within the industry itself? You author a fan-penned blog, correct?

You probably just meant you strive to meet a professional level of journalistic integrity, if so, cool.
So you know his intended context and you know he used the word correctly...

[mod]


Last edited by Jet: 10-17-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: not necessary.
truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #135
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
 
Gump Hasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 222 Tudor Terrace
Posts: 7,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
So you know his intended context and you he used the word correctly...

[mod]
I simply asked honest questions, for clarification purposes.

Wouldn't want someone obliquely attempting to paint themselves as arguing from a position of authority, or from an inside perspective that doesn't exist.

[mod]


Last edited by Jet: 10-17-2012 at 05:32 PM. Reason: ...
Gump Hasek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #136
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The professional view? Are you employed for pay in the hockey industry at a professional level? Isn't that what it takes to offer a professional view, ; ie - the offering of the view of someone gainfully employed within the industry itself? You author a fan-penned blog, correct?

You probably just meant you strive to meet a professional level of journalistic integrity, if so, cool.
No... I meant that I'm connected to some who are employed and in some cases I know their views

Wasn't attempting any sort of opinion shaping by the statement. Just was explaining my reasoning for what I do and say.

AIH is a place where I write as a hobby of mine, not a profession. But, both AIH and SBN are much larger than I.

EDIT: but good point on the integrity bit!
I guess what I should of said: AIH is where I "strive to meet a professional level of journalistic integrity" while I meant here is a mix of that, what I've heard through others that I respect dearly and just homerism fandom.

IF any of that makes or doesn't make sense sorry :p


Last edited by garret9: 10-17-2012 at 04:15 PM.
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2012, 04:44 PM
  #137
Hank Chinaski
Mod Supervisor
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,032
vCash: 500
If this thread continues to deviate from the original topic, I'm going to have zero qualms about shutting it down.

Let's get back on topic.

Hank Chinaski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 03:33 AM
  #138
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
This conversation has been very confusing to me...

Re pressure, I said:


You quoted exactly that and said:


Now you say:


Can you understand my confusion?





Re clutch players playing the same or better you said:


You also said:


There are only 3 possibilities:
Worse
Same
Better

So you don't agree with same, you don't agree with better and I am sure you don't think "playing well" means worse.


I am officially lost.
I said you were "starting to sound like me", not that you sounded exactly like me. There is no pressure in a wednesday night game in Florida, in mid november, infront of 5 thousand people. So there isn't always pressure. Playing well is different then playing better, just like being consistent is different then being clutch. No situations in sports are exacly alike so it makes the consistency idea really lack substance. Its simple minded to think that you can only play three different ways "better" "same" "worse" which makes me understand why you would be confused when it comes to what my opinion is.

TroubaFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 10:18 AM
  #139
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
I said you were "starting to sound like me", not that you sounded exactly like me. There is no pressure in a wednesday night game in Florida, in mid november, infront of 5 thousand people. So there isn't always pressure. Playing well is different then playing better, just like being consistent is different then being clutch. No situations in sports are exacly alike so it makes the consistency idea really lack substance. Its simple minded to think that you can only play three different ways "better" "same" "worse" which makes me understand why you would be confused when it comes to what my opinion is.
I bet if you asked most NHL players they'd disagree about that, but they'd also say it's part of the job. Especially when you look at last year where every game was a "must win situation" for the Jets. Some of them include games in cities where the situation was similar to the one you detailed above.

I have one last thing to say and that's in regards to your anti-pts/gp argument. You said there are different points in the game that constitute more pressure than others, IMO, relatively so but still consists of pressure. Every goal and point matters because they are lead to believe, correctly so, that games can change momentum in an instant and that crazy comebacks happen. But... even if you were right...

Let's say someone has X Pts/TOI in the regular season. We'll assume that a certain percentage of that, Y%, is of moments you'd consider high pressure and moments that are not are the rest. Then we look at them in the playoffs.
The playoffs tend to have tighter checking and less penalties (ie: less PP and PK time), which means less scoring. That would mean that "every-goal counts" is even bigger of a deal before. Also, they are now playing for the cup, so I'm sure you think that adds pressure. So, in the playoffs Y% is much larger. If someone has similar Pts/TOI then you'd expect in the playoffs then a particular percentage of them would fall within Y% time and some outside.
Well then there are only 3 things that could happen:
  • less within y% time: with such a small sample size I'd just say it's variance but you'd say this person was "unclutch" but most would probably not notice it because he could of scored when it was 3-0 but the other team scored 3 goals to make it a tie game and everyone forgets what happens before.
  • same within Y% time: well he hasn't changed at all.
  • more within Y% time: don't be hasty in calling this clutch... this person's production compared to the regular is going down when it "doesn't count"... that's not a good thing to celebrate, I'd call this lazy. This could be the guy that allows the momentum shift to lose a game after leading 4-0 with 5 minutes left (it happens!)... maybe it wouldn't even get that high, pressure isn't the same when the score isn't that high....

All you're doing is shrinking the survey sample size of when it's high-pressure and when it's not. Shrinking the sample size can cause life's white noise, variance, to have a larger probability to create a bias in that mean than normal. Or, in sports terms, smaller viewing time allows luck and not skill or "clutch" (if there is such a thing) to be the largest determining factor.


Last edited by garret9: 10-18-2012 at 10:35 AM. Reason: said opinion twice in a row lol
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 10:31 AM
  #140
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I bet if you asked most NHL players they'd disagree about that, but they'd also say it's part of the job. Especially when you look at last year where every game was a "must win situation" for the Jets. Some of them include games in cities where the situation was similar to the one you detailed above.

I have one last thing to say and that's in regards to your anti-pts/gp argument. You said there are different points in the game that constitute more pressure than others, IMO opinion, relatively so but still consists of pressure. Every goal and point matters because they are lead to believe, correctly so, that games can change momentum in an instant and that crazy comebacks happen. But... even if you were right...

Let's say someone has X Pts/TOI in the regular season. We'll assume that a certain percentage of that, Y%, is of moments you'd consider high pressure and moments that are not are the rest. Then we look at them in the playoffs.
The playoffs tend to have tighter checking and less penalties (ie: less PP and PK time), which means less scoring. That would mean that "every-goal counts" is even bigger of a deal before. Also, they are now playing for the cup, so I'm sure you think that adds pressure. So, in the playoffs Y% is much larger. If someone has similar Pts/TOI then you'd expect in the playoffs then a particular percentage of them would fall within Y% time and some outside.
Well then there are only 3 things that could happen:
  • less within y% time: with such a small sample size I'd just say it's variance but you'd say this person was "unclutch" but most would probably not notice it because he could of scored when it was 3-0 but the other team scored 3 goals to make it a tie game and everyone forgets what happens before.
  • same within Y% time: well he hasn't changed at all.
  • more within Y% time: don't be hasty in calling this clutch... this person's production compared to the regular is going down when it "doesn't count"... that's not a good thing to celebrate, I'd call this lazy. This could be the guy that allows the momentum shift to lose a game after leading 4-0 with 5 minutes left (it happens!)... maybe it wouldn't even get that high, pressure isn't the same when the score isn't that high....

All you're doing is shrinking the survey sample size of when it's high-pressure and when it's not. Shrinking the sample size can cause life's white noise, variance, to have a larger probability to create a bias in that mean than normal. Or, in sports terms, smaller viewing time allows luck and not skill or "clutch" (if there is such a thing) to be the largest determining factor.
i just want to thank you for this. I was trying formulate this exact idea into words the other day and couldn't do it without losing myself.

I don't think it matters though, both sides seem to be firmly entrenched and I don't think either of us is going to swing the other anytime soon....

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:25 AM
  #141
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I bet if you asked most NHL players they'd disagree about that, but they'd also say it's part of the job. Especially when you look at last year where every game was a "must win situation" for the Jets. Some of them include games in cities where the situation was similar to the one you detailed above.

I have one last thing to say and that's in regards to your anti-pts/gp argument. You said there are different points in the game that constitute more pressure than others, IMO, relatively so but still consists of pressure. Every goal and point matters because they are lead to believe, correctly so, that games can change momentum in an instant and that crazy comebacks happen. But... even if you were right...

Let's say someone has X Pts/TOI in the regular season. We'll assume that a certain percentage of that, Y%, is of moments you'd consider high pressure and moments that are not are the rest. Then we look at them in the playoffs.
The playoffs tend to have tighter checking and less penalties (ie: less PP and PK time), which means less scoring. That would mean that "every-goal counts" is even bigger of a deal before. Also, they are now playing for the cup, so I'm sure you think that adds pressure. So, in the playoffs Y% is much larger. If someone has similar Pts/TOI then you'd expect in the playoffs then a particular percentage of them would fall within Y% time and some outside.
Well then there are only 3 things that could happen:
  • less within y% time: with such a small sample size I'd just say it's variance but you'd say this person was "unclutch" but most would probably not notice it because he could of scored when it was 3-0 but the other team scored 3 goals to make it a tie game and everyone forgets what happens before.
  • same within Y% time: well he hasn't changed at all.
  • more within Y% time: don't be hasty in calling this clutch... this person's production compared to the regular is going down when it "doesn't count"... that's not a good thing to celebrate, I'd call this lazy. This could be the guy that allows the momentum shift to lose a game after leading 4-0 with 5 minutes left (it happens!)... maybe it wouldn't even get that high, pressure isn't the same when the score isn't that high....

All you're doing is shrinking the survey sample size of when it's high-pressure and when it's not. Shrinking the sample size can cause life's white noise, variance, to have a larger probability to create a bias in that mean than normal. Or, in sports terms, smaller viewing time allows luck and not skill or "clutch" (if there is such a thing) to be the largest determining factor.
Only thing I would add re:

pressure in a wednesday night game in Florida, in mid november, infront of 5 thousand people.

There is always pressure to win.

There is always pressure to kill a penalty.

There is always pressure during a shootout.

Nobody wants to let their teammates down.

Plus...

There is often pressure that we don't know about, pressure to produce so a player can earn a roster spot or keep a roster spot. Pressure from a coach or pressure to break a slump.

In other sports like football where every game matters even more the pressure is amplified. Were the Broncos and Chargers not under pressure last Monday night? Was there pressure before the game? In the first quarter? Second quarter? Was there only pressure in the fourth quarter? Who decides?

Players can also have personal pressures or stresses. Things like divorce, or health of their family or finances (which are directly linked to play).

If "clutch" is the ability to put aside the noise of a situation and perform "well" (which is not the same, better or worse) then "clutch" can come into play at any time. Pressure is something a player feels internally, it isn't based on how many people are watching or the date on the calender.

Pressure may be amplified in the playoffs, but there are always sources of pressure.




As for not understanding how a player can play "well" without playing the same, better or worse than normal... If that makes me simple, so be it.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 08:27 PM
  #142
Duir
Registered Bunk
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 687
vCash: 500
For those disagree with clutch performers in professional sports, the NFL Network has a whole piece on top ten clutch QB's of all time. You can say what you want but the athletes, analysts, and sports journalists involved in compiling this list even disagree with you.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?...s&confirm=true

You click on the view clip to hear how they have come to each conclusion. Incidentally, the likes of Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Terry Bradshaw never even made the list and they had incredibly successful (and continue to Manning's case) careers.

Duir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2012, 03:08 PM
  #143
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunk View Post
For those disagree with clutch performers in professional sports, the NFL Network has a whole piece on top ten clutch QB's of all time. You can say what you want but the athletes, analysts, and sports journalists involved in compiling this list even disagree with you.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?...s&confirm=true

You click on the view clip to hear how they have come to each conclusion. Incidentally, the likes of Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Terry Bradshaw never even made the list and they had incredibly successful (and continue to Manning's case) careers.
I find a lot of the opinions and evidence placed in this thread far better arguments against my own opinion than these...

It seems, like usual, the main evidence is the circumstances or relevance to the event... when the difference should be in the players actual skill, production and performance increase substantially and consistently enough to not be regular variance that is observed in long term.


Last edited by garret9: 10-20-2012 at 03:14 PM.
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-20-2012, 07:11 PM
  #144
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,579
vCash: 155
I've changed my point of view. I do believe there is such a thing as a clutch performance. I don't think there is any disputing that.

But I do not think there are players that are clutch so to speak.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 02:45 AM
  #145
TroubaFan1
Registered User
 
TroubaFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 895
vCash: 500
Can we all agree that A-Roid is the anti "clutch"?

TroubaFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 12:23 AM
  #146
LadyJet26
Lest We Forget
 
LadyJet26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Prove to me that any of those weren't from the fact that:
*those are super talented players who score all the time even in non "clutch" moments
*that any of those players were able to raise their game to a "higher level" than they normally do

What separates those moments is that their importance in results, but it doesn't identify that the players rose their compete in those circumstances.

Also, Malkin has not risen his playing level in any measurement for post-season relative to reg-season.
And, I've heard straight from the horses mouth in regards to Paul Henderson
STEVE YZERMAN PLAYED THE ENTIRE PLAYOFFS ON ONE KNEE! Yeah he's normally a super talented guy, but even with these types of players a knee injury that you can barely walk on let alone skate on. He shouldn't have been able to play the way he did during the 2002 playoffs.

Malkin deserved the league MVP honours that year. He showed up more then Crosby did. Malkin almost single handedly beat the Philadelphia Flyers.

I love Joe Sakic and have seen him play in many games. Nothing like what it was like at the 2002 Olympics.

Just because these players scored in non clutch times, doesn't make the goals they scored in the scenarios I'm talking about any less clutch. It doesn't matter who the **** scores them. Crosby's goal in Vancouver is my generations Paul Henderson. Paul Henderson and Sidney Crosby have something in common. They scored two of the biggest goals in Canadian history. Millions watched both of them score. It doesn't matter what they did before that or after. I wasn't alive when Henderson scored, but I know the history behind the cold war and I know what that means to Canadians. It isn't about what these players did before. It's their performance in the games that REALLY mean something. I well up when I think about Foster Hewitt calling out "Henderson has scored for Canada" and Chris Cuthbert "Crosby with the golden goal" If anyone else had scored against the Americans, I don't think people would remember it as much.

If you don't think that's clutch then you really don't understand the concept of what some of these goals and games these players have played means to fans or that player and his teammates.

LadyJet26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 01:15 AM
  #147
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,579
vCash: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Can we all agree that A-Roid is the anti "clutch"?
I'll agree to stipulate.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 11:43 AM
  #148
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
STEVE YZERMAN PLAYED THE ENTIRE PLAYOFFS ON ONE KNEE! Yeah he's normally a super talented guy, but even with these types of players a knee injury that you can barely walk on let alone skate on. He shouldn't have been able to play the way he did during the 2002 playoffs.
That is intense commitment combined with adrenaline (like when mothers pick up cars to save their babies) but how is that clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
Malkin deserved the league MVP honours that year. He showed up more then Crosby did. Malkin almost single handedly beat the Philadelphia Flyers.
How is this different then normal? Malkin deserved not just playoffs MVP but regular season MVP because he's one of the best players in the game right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
I love Joe Sakic and have seen him play in many games. Nothing like what it was like at the 2002 Olympics.
Small sample size, anyone can hit a streak. I won't crunch the numbers to see which way they go but this can just be as spectators speculative as the infamous Luongo "disapearing" some people have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg View Post
Just because these players scored in non clutch times, doesn't make the goals they scored in the scenarios I'm talking about any less clutch. It doesn't matter who the **** scores them. Crosby's goal in Vancouver is my generations Paul Henderson. Paul Henderson and Sidney Crosby have something in common. They scored two of the biggest goals in Canadian history. Millions watched both of them score. It doesn't matter what they did before that or after. I wasn't alive when Henderson scored, but I know the history behind the cold war and I know what that means to Canadians. It isn't about what these players did before. It's their performance in the games that REALLY mean something. I well up when I think about Foster Hewitt calling out "Henderson has scored for Canada" and Chris Cuthbert "Crosby with the golden goal" If anyone else had scored against the Americans, I don't think people would remember it as much.

If you don't think that's clutch then you really don't understand the concept of what some of these goals and games these players have played means to fans or that player and his teammates.
I've said this before in this thread, I was with Henderson in Vancouver during the Crosby goal. I can't speak for Crosby , but I know Henderson. Henderson doesn't believe what he did, how he did it or anything that was on the ice as any different than any game. In fact he tends to use "the goal" as part of his intro when he does keynote speeches.
He said to me something a long the lines of:
I'm remembered for 1 goal of my hundreds because what it meant to others and a country.
Don't forget that the next summit series Henderson had 3 points in 7 games...

This is just a perfect example. If it's the moment exclusively that makes it clutch and not the person then how is that clutch? Maybe you don't have an understanding of the concept of what some of these goals and games these players have played mean to that player relative to fans. (PS I'm a fan too so don't know how I'd be not able to understand a fans view )

Is Golberg scoring that one game winning goal in Mighty Ducks because he was clutch? I think if that was magnified to Olympics or Playoffs you'd say yes... yet all that happened was there was an opportunity and the he went for it...

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 06:51 PM
  #149
LadyJet26
Lest We Forget
 
LadyJet26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
That is intense commitment combined with adrenaline (like when mothers pick up cars to save their babies) but how is that clutch?


How is this different then normal? Malkin deserved not just playoffs MVP but regular season MVP because he's one of the best players in the game right now.


Small sample size, anyone can hit a streak. I won't crunch the numbers to see which way they go but this can just be as spectators speculative as the infamous Luongo "disapearing" some people have.



I've said this before in this thread, I was with Henderson in Vancouver during the Crosby goal. I can't speak for Crosby , but I know Henderson. Henderson doesn't believe what he did, how he did it or anything that was on the ice as any different than any game. In fact he tends to use "the goal" as part of his intro when he does keynote speeches.
He said to me something a long the lines of:
I'm remembered for 1 goal of my hundreds because what it meant to others and a country.
Don't forget that the next summit series Henderson had 3 points in 7 games...

This is just a perfect example. If it's the moment exclusively that makes it clutch and not the person then how is that clutch? Maybe you don't have an understanding of the concept of what some of these goals and games these players have played mean to that player relative to fans. (PS I'm a fan too so don't know how I'd be not able to understand a fans view )

Is Golberg scoring that one game winning goal in Mighty Ducks because he was clutch? I think if that was magnified to Olympics or Playoffs you'd say yes... yet all that happened was there was an opportunity and the he went for it...
The way I see clutch is obviously different then. Goldberg in the Mighty Ducks was their backup and would never happen in real life.

LadyJet26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 06:58 PM
  #150
GrandChelems
Registered User
 
GrandChelems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
If you have eyes, and you've watched sports, then you've probably seen clutch in sports.

GrandChelems is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.