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Old
02-01-2005, 03:36 PM
  #1
NFITO
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The Board-to-Board Mock: Rules Discussion Forum

Hey all...

as you guys know we've been working on some rules for this thing and they are now almost complete. Waiting for the site to finish, then we'll put em all up.

But for now, I'd like to get everyone's ideas going on rules... and really want to know who's interested in being part of a team when this thing gets going.

The rules itself have been created under 2 assumptions: 1) we're using FHL SIM; and 2) the goal is to try and be as realistic as possible, while understanding that it's still a SIM and can't be real-life.

So I'll start off with the part that it's in the FHL SIM league. If anyone has any questions about FHL SIM, that are interested in being a part of this thing, ask your questions here... we'll provide answers to familiarize you guys with the FHL SIM and how it's going to play into the rules for this.

The rules are quite in-depth. They had to be considering the goal is to make things realistic... they're pretty complete as they are, with flexibility put into em - where a majority vote from GMs can change any rule during our off-season GMs meeting. But for the most part, we'd like to keep the rules going without change through a regular season - so teams aren't all of sudden given a new rule that affects their team and their planning.

I don't want to post the entire set of rules here (as they are too long too), and while the site is still under construction we can't see them on site... so I'll post parts of the rules from time to time when they come up in discussion and we can all discuss them to see if they work, fit, or need to be altered to thrown away...

the other main goal of this thread is to find those that are interested in being a part of this thing. With the ideas, the write-ups and the site construction, we are spending quite a bit of our time trying to come up with the most entertaining game we can for everyone here to play, but it really means nothing if we can't get enough people to be a part of it.

And we're talking about more than just 30 GMs here... since the draft has been posted on each board, it has gotten a lot of responses from different fans... we're hoping that we can make a management "team" from each team we have... and we've built incentives into the rules for those people, so playing the role of a scout, for example, has it's own benefits.

we've also talked about the idea of player agents... and written this into the rules (pending changes)... tried to create a little game for agents to get people interested in being agents.

Anyways... the ideas are all there... just need you guys to start initiating conversation on it... and once a question or idea comes up of a certain part of the rule, I'll post what we have so far on it for review and discussion.

Most of all, we've spent the last week or so working on the different things needed here - from JB doing the mock draft, to the rules, to the site construction, etc... so if this thing isnt' going to get enough attention here, the time to kill it is now, so we can move on and try and build a league elsewhere.

Waiting for your feedback guys, for all those that are interested in being a part of this.

Thanks.

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Old
02-01-2005, 04:21 PM
  #2
Amen evil king
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I'm happy to be the Thrashers GM.. and it doesn't look like I'll have much competition for it at this stage.

Fire away with some of the rules, I'm interested to see what they are.

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Old
02-01-2005, 04:56 PM
  #3
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okay... now that I've posted that message on all 30 team boards, I can answer your question

First the overview...

the league is set up in FHL SIM. We will be adding all the players as per the mock draft to each team. we will also be adding each team's top unsigned prospects (remember a team's signed prospects are available in the mock draft) - likely a list of 15-20 players. We will get this list from HF, since we need one source without being biased... all other team prospects will be eligible for the next draft.

We will be taking their salaries from NHLPA.com to put into the system. Those players that don't have current salaries listed there (RFAs and UFAs that are drafted), we will use their salaries from last year.

All of these ones will be on 1 yr deals... and all the ones from NHLPA.com, we'll let the SIM generate years for them (between 1 and 3 for example)... any team can then submit a link which clearly states that the player has signed for more or less years, and we'll make the adjustment - as long as it's prior to the start of the season.

so here you need team management to come up with information on each player's contract - again this is an option, or you can just go with the autogenerated years in the SIM.

Because we didn't announce salary or finances prior to drafting, we will keep salary caps out of it... the sim does do expenses and revenues though, so if your payroll is too high, better think of ways to make more money, or trade contracts.

We've also added several ways to make money... Endorsement structures, TV deals, even re-rates - where a team can not only re-rate their own player, but a player on a different team (fixed number of re-rates given per year)... and on a successful re-rate on a player from a different team (where that player goes down in ratings), the team gets rewarded... the idea behind this is to keep things real to how players are actually playing in the NHL... so it makes it that much tougher to trade, since you're trying to forecast a player's upside.

There are detailed rules written up on everything I've mentioned above.

Some other things...

we'll have different team members involved as well in the league... where the Scout for example, runs the entry draft entirely... and like the AGM, depending on his success, can eventually (over 5 seasons, for example) take over the GM spot on the worst team in the league... this gives incentives to all players involved... AGMs have the same option - the top AGM in the league can take over the worst franchise in the league - for example - but in less years than it would take a scout, since with scouts we need to wait to find out how their picks have turned out (all written in the rules).

which then brings in player agents... we tried to create a separate game for player agents, but bring them into the frame work of the league... player agents have player contracts that they manage - they negotiate with teams, and they get a % of each contract... they can bid on new players... they can trade contracts with other agents, etc.. the goal for them is of course to make money... but do it without losing their clients by being too greedy (and then lose money).... and we've also built in arbitration here, where a team can't come to terms with player agents, and needs to go to the league to get a contract done for a RFA.

anyways... the rules again for this is much more detailed than what I just summarized.

the game itself... well that's FHL sim... so you have a ratings based system with your lineup, playing against other teams, through a regular season and then playoffs... teams can also make money in playoffs, winning the Cup, or even winning individual player awards (which is voted on by the league).

we've also set up committees to monitor a lot of things... these committees will be made up of both - a league member, and members from the league community, who are voted on for these positions.... again the rules go a lot more in depth with each of these committees.

The reasoning behind creating these committees is to put the league basically in the hands of the league community - the GMs, AGMs, scouts, etc... The idea behind this league is a league run by all, for all... this takes the "my league" mentality out of it, and we simply try to create and manage the best league out there for all of us... this idea brings in another key point - any rules made can be changed, or deleted, with 2/3rd majority vote of all teams - so 20 out of 30 teams would have to agree... again, if the majority want something (with the intension always of trying to be more realistic) then we should change it in the rules. we will hold a GM conference every offseason to discuss rule change options.

other things the rules cover: financial structures, negotiating contracts, RFAs, UFAs, propsects, entry draft, waiver draft, coaches, sources of making money (ie. endorsements) - been thinking about adding a league betting system, but haven't done anything on that yet... and more!

like I said the rules itself are quite detailed at this point, and cover all these things more extensively... can discuss any one thing, or post any one part of the rule if you're interested...

any questions? concerns? comments?

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Old
02-01-2005, 05:16 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehtonen32
I'm happy to be the Thrashers GM.. and it doesn't look like I'll have much competition for it at this stage.

Fire away with some of the rules, I'm interested to see what they are.
I'd like to be Toronto.

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Old
02-01-2005, 05:27 PM
  #5
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I think that JB has already mentioned that there will be a voting system for each GM position.

I think mid way through the draft, at a time when it looks like interest might be fading, we'll post a thread to elect a GM - where the guys that are still interested can make their case for it, and be voted by their peers, so to speak.

we want to keep this open, rather than first come first serve... feel this might be better way to get the most qualified - or at least most popular - choices in GM positions... then the rest can be part of the staff for that team.

I don't want to discourage people that don't get the GM position to not be in this game... that's why we've created such indepth rules to try and make it so you need more than 1 position for each team, and tried to create incentives for those positions.

also why the player agent position was created to get more people involved.

so you'll need to wait and win that vote to be the GM of the team... really since it's already been mentioned by JB in his Mock draft - which really was his own idea - I think it's only fair to keep it that way.

Only those people that are taking their time out to play this mock draft game on all team boards, and are taking it seriously, should be eligible for those GM positions but that's up to everyone else..

so you got lots of time... can be involved making selections for your team, and then get that vote to be the GM of your team.

- so please no one PM me on this and fill up my box, since I'm not the only one running the league and want to keep it fair for all -

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Old
02-01-2005, 07:13 PM
  #6
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I am down to be part of the Flames franchise.

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Old
02-01-2005, 07:27 PM
  #7
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Player Agents:



Management teams candidates*:
The candidates on this list will still need to get votes to get each GM position, so there are no permanent positions as per listed below.... just a list of those that are interested, what position they would like, and what team they'd be interested in...

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal - markov`(GM);
Ottawa
Toronto - Skittles.TML (GM); sevenSteen (GM)

New Jersey
Islanders
Rangers - pld459666 (GM);
Philadephia
Pittsburg

Atlanta - Lehtonen32 (GM);
Carolia
Florida
Tampa Bay
Washington

Chicago - CaptainBure (GM);
Columbus
Detroit - AG (GM);
Nashville - triggrman (GM);
St. Louis - kimzey59 (GM);


Calgary - Patrick - Flames Fan (GM);
Colorado
Edmonton
Minnesota
Vancouver - NeoCanuck (GM); Shane (GM);


Anaheim
Dallas
Los Angeles - TwzKing (GM);
Phoenix
San Jose

** we're looking for multiple managers for each team. also still looking for those interested in being player agents.

if we don't get enough player agents, we'll need to change the rules to get them out of it.

also we don't get enough managers for each team, we'll also have to revise the rules there too.


Last edited by NFITO: 02-05-2005 at 12:50 PM.
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Old
02-01-2005, 07:42 PM
  #8
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I would like to be the Detroit Red WIngs or if not then the Montreal Canadiens

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Old
02-01-2005, 07:54 PM
  #9
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I would like to ATTEMPT to be the Canucks GM.

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Old
02-01-2005, 08:19 PM
  #10
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I'd like the Rangers

thank you!

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Old
02-01-2005, 09:03 PM
  #11
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Im in...... GOKINGSGO

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Old
02-01-2005, 10:00 PM
  #12
Amen evil king
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I think on all the boards with the big fan bases at HF a public 'Who should be our GM?' poll would be the best way to go.. Those in charge may have alluded to this already.

Don't know how it'd work in the smaller boards though.

EDIT: I guess one would have to nominate themselves, and then have a poll.. This would ensure those who get selected actually want to be apart of it. If there ain't any competition, then the sole nominee gets the job.. which solves the problem in the less active fan bases. Assuming there is at least one nominee from each fan base.

If not, I'm sure finding other GM's won't be hard.

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Old
02-02-2005, 06:50 AM
  #13
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I'd like to try to take over the Montreal Canadiens.

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Old
02-02-2005, 07:34 AM
  #14
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I'll take the Predators

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Old
02-02-2005, 08:18 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehtonen32
I think on all the boards with the big fan bases at HF a public 'Who should be our GM?' poll would be the best way to go.. Those in charge may have alluded to this already.

Don't know how it'd work in the smaller boards though.

EDIT: I guess one would have to nominate themselves, and then have a poll.. This would ensure those who get selected actually want to be apart of it. If there ain't any competition, then the sole nominee gets the job.. which solves the problem in the less active fan bases. Assuming there is at least one nominee from each fan base.

If not, I'm sure finding other GM's won't be hard.
I think the plan is to post on each team like the mock draft has been done...

the best setup would be to have fans of a particular team being involved with that team... of course this is a perfect situation, and may not work that way.

if we don't get enough GMs for all teams, then we can get people taking over GMs on different teams... then we're looking for assistants and scouts, so each GM will have to post about their team, their plans, and try and hire assistants and scouts, unless we get multiple people interested in each team here, which would make it a lot easier.

and player agents are still needed... without player agents, the rules will need to get changed, and instead have some kind of sim system or bidding system for free agents, rather than separate negotiations (which is more realistic IMO).

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Old
02-02-2005, 08:32 AM
  #16
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I'd like to make a run for the Leafs GM position.

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Old
02-02-2005, 01:42 PM
  #17
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ill be chicago

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Old
02-02-2005, 02:05 PM
  #18
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okay guys... i'm adding people's names as they are showing interest... but would really like you guys to be involved in this thing by creating some discussion on it (after all the purpose of this was a rules discussion thread)...

and as i've mentioned several times, this is not a league where you get the team first come first serve, so I hope you realize that when you're posting things like "I'll be xxx team"... since this will all be up to a vote on each of your team boards.

I think what we'll end up doing is make recommendations for the GMs here on those team boards when the thread is there for GM voting... we'd be much more inclined to recommend those GMs that are taking part in the mock draft discussion on their respective team boards though than just those that are lurking, and posting you're interested in the position, but aren't participating on the boards for it.

afterall this is a GM or AGM or scout position on a team that you're applying for (or a player agent position)... the interview process started when the first mock draft thread was created... and the ones that decide will be the fans of each team

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02-05-2005, 09:14 AM
  #19
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I'll take the Blues.
Note: I will need an As. GM as I've never done a SIM league before.


1) Is there any way I could get an estimate on our revenue now so I can plan the Draft accordingly? Laurie may spend like a mad man but St. Louis can't afford a 60 mil payroll while keeping ticket prices reasonable.

2) Are there any Trade Rules/deadlines(during and after Draft)?

3) I'm unfamiliar with SIM league rules. What are we using as the relevant stats for each position(G, A, P, +/-, PIM, GAA, SP, etc...) ?

4) What are the FA rules?(after Draft) Are the age limits, QO and arbitration the same as it is in the NHL? Will a FA list be posted prior to the offseason or will we have to keep track of that ourselves?

5) Are we stuck with our current Coach and system or can we change them(for example: Minnesota plays the Nuetral Zone Trap, would they be able to switch their playing style(to say a Left Wing Lock(ala Detroit or Colorado) or Flowing Trap(ala Tampa and Ottawa)) or will they always be a Trap oriented team?)? On the same note, can we create a new style of play for our team to implement(if so where can I find an online Coaching board so I can design and write up a new system)?.

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Old
02-05-2005, 10:13 AM
  #20
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all answers are as the rules are set up now, and can be changed prior to the start of the season... things are dependant right now on level of participation, setup of web design and website, as well as the flexibility of the FHL system, and the webmaster's availablility time to update the system to reflect the rules.

reminder: the plan right now is that we continue with the board to board mock draft until around round 5. This is where they'll be a break the the draft, as the website is released and the rules are posted as well as the GMs, AGMs and scouts will be formalized for each team. The rest of the draft will be taken over by this group (again barring changes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
I'll take the Blues.
Note: I will need an As. GM as I've never done a SIM league before.
please see above regarding the GM voting process we've worked out. This will now not apply for all teams as LA for example has decided to withdraw from it, so that team will be assigned a GM and staff differently than the voting system for other teams so far.

As far as not doing SIM league before - that should be okay with this league as the rules created are detailed and include a lot of how the SIM league works. Still an AGM and scout would be very helpful as there are a lot of options in the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
1) Is there any way I could get an estimate on our revenue now so I can plan the Draft accordingly? Laurie may spend like a mad man but St. Louis can't afford a 60 mil payroll while keeping ticket prices reasonable.
Right now, you can't. There are different factors that affect revenues, expenses and profits in SIM. A lot of this can be controlled and is laid out in the rules as such. Some of it is less controlled - depending on salaries, players, and team success, as well as things like ticket prices. All of these are detailed in the rules and will be released when the website is ready.

For now, don't worry too much about payroll. We had to leave flexibility since teams have already started picking and protecting players without salary and caps in mind. For Season 1, there will be no cap, and there will be plenty of options to generate revenues through other streams to balance high expenses (like with payroll for example)... we will have to look at the financial structure of the league again in the offseason after season 1, and see what adjustments - if any - would need to be made.

currently setup as revenue streams are things like TV deals, endorsements, and a profitable re-rating system to generate $$...

After round 5, when the rules will be released you will have a better idea of the financial structure in SIM.... until then just think of it like the owner (Laurie in this case) simply wants to put his stamp on the team as an owner and listening to the fans too much to select the top 8 players (5 drafted and 3 pre-selected) on the team... after that he decides to listen to team management for what's the best strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
2) Are there any Trade Rules/deadlines(during and after Draft)?
No trading during the draft right now. Just select your picks. Right now we don't even have team managements confirmed - depends on the vote on each team boad.

Well before the draft is over though the rules and website should be released as well as the team management for each team, and at this stage we'll provide dates for all league activities - including the start of when the offseason trade freeze is lifted.

Once all teams have at least 1 GM in place, we can open up the trading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
3) I'm unfamiliar with SIM league rules. What are we using as the relevant stats for each position(G, A, P, +/-, PIM, GAA, SP, etc...) ?
This is straight from the current rules:

5.1 Ratings and Re-ratings:

All players come in FHL with a per-determined rating. We realize that there would be discrepancies with some players. This is why each team is given re-rate options to use each season to balance out players through the league, and keep them realistic. This is why we allow teams to re-rate their own, and other team’s players (see Section 2.2.2).

The following ratings are used in FHL SIM:

IT SP ST EN DU DI SK PA PC DF SC EX LD OV

This are identified as follows: Intensity, Speed, Strength, Endurance, Durability, Discipline, Skating, Passing, Puck Control, Defense, Scoring, Experience, Leadership and Overall.

All ratings effect performances of players and teams in the sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
4) What are the FA rules?(after Draft) Are the age limits, QO and arbitration the same as it is in the NHL? Will a FA list be posted prior to the offseason or will we have to keep track of that ourselves?
There will be a free agency period each offseason. First will be RFAs - and qualifying offers. Then after the draft will be the UFA period. Right now the rules are set up with Player Agents in mind, where they have certain player contracts and negotiate with teams. This may need to be changed if we can't find enough player agents to play this part of the game.

The age limits, QO and arbitration closely emulate the NHL, but we still built our own "CBA" into it, with slightly different rules. For example, in the NHL it goes through "average league salary" to determine Group II UFA or Group IV UFA... it also uses this average to determine whether a 10% increase needs to be given to a player in qualifying. To make it easier for us to do, we simply kept it at $1.5 mill is the "average league salary" (note the average salary last year in the NHL was $1.79mill)... also instead of Group I, II, III, IV, V free agents, we have RFA... then we have Group I or II UFA. tried to keep it a bit simplier but followed NHL methodolgy at the same time.

Everything - as much as possible - will be posted, but each team is still responsible for tracking as much as they can. Usually in SIM league's I've played in, I create a simple xcel sheet or word, to monitor my team... I've done things simply in certain leagues, and more detailed in others - depending on the league... this is not just to keep track of my team - as the info will all be in SIM - but to figure out my plans with that team easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
5) Are we stuck with our current Coach and system or can we change them(for example: Minnesota plays the Nuetral Zone Trap, would they be able to switch their playing style(to say a Left Wing Lock(ala Detroit or Colorado) or Flowing Trap(ala Tampa and Ottawa)) or will they always be a Trap oriented team?)? On the same note, can we create a new style of play for our team to implement(if so where can I find an online Coaching board so I can design and write up a new system)?.
Coaches are a difficult thing to monitor in SIM. I won't be able to answer this question clearly until after I discuss it with our webmaster commish. She's going to be updating the league and controlling the SIM.

Unfortunately the FHL SIM is not that detailed in coaching, where you can create your own coaching style or even pick a coaching style (although coach ratings and rosters will losely emulate team systems).

If anyone knows of a way to create styles and make the FHL coaching system more detailed, I'd love to hear it!

What I currently have in the rules on this is as follows:

5.6 Coaches:

All teams will have a head coach. For Season 1 of the league, all teams will start with their current NHL head coach (and if the NHL does not have a current coach at the start of the season, we will assign either their coach from last season, or the team’s top assistant). These coaches are automatically signed for 2 seasons at $750,000/yr.

Coaches will affect game play. They all have the following ratings:

OF- offense, DF – defense, LD – leadership, and EX – experience. All these factors influence the team’s play.

At any time – during a season, or in the off-season, a team can choose to fire their coach. If they do, they will need to buyout his contract (see Section 8.5). They can then hire a new coach.

If a coach is not already in the sim, then we can create a new coach, upon a team’s request. That coach will be created with ratings according to what the re-rate committee feel he is worth, based on documentation provided (links to websites that have discussed the coach’s experience). If no documentation is provided, the re-rate committee will create the coach as they feel is fair.

This coach is then created into the system, and joins others there, that are currently without contracts. A team can then negotiate a new contract with this coach (see Section 8.6).

Teams can re-rate coaches as they would with players, following the same rules.

__________________________________________________ ______________

well hopefully that answers some of your questions...

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Old
02-05-2005, 12:07 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markov`
I'd like to try to take over the Montreal Canadiens.

Damn!! haha

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02-05-2005, 12:09 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13
Damn!! haha
if you want to be part of that team I can add you to the list too... everyone interested will still be voted on by the team's board.

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Old
02-05-2005, 12:17 PM
  #23
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I'd interested in becoming the Canucks GM.

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Old
02-06-2005, 01:06 PM
  #24
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re

will this eat up alot of time?? if not id like to be the oilers

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Old
02-06-2005, 01:42 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toad quraishi
will this eat up alot of time?? if not id like to be the oilers
really depends on the team... if they have a staff, with an AGM and scout, then no, it wouldn't take a lot of time for any 1 person.

if you're running the team alone, there is a lot more responsibility for each person.

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