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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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11-04-2012, 11:38 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


Come on, man. I am so sick of hearing about how this is all about greed. The players, like it or not, don't care about you as much as they do themselves and their families. Same goes for the owners. Just like at your job you want what is best for you, not what is best for the people patronizing whatever industry you are involved in. The players and owners are involved in a business. Yes they both make more money than most of us will ever see, but wanting a better deal for yourself, your family, and future NHLers/NHL owners is not "greedy." I suppose if you get a great job one day making a ton of money, you wouldn't ever ask for a raise or better working conditions, correct?
And I am sick and tired of people thinking athletes *need* to get paid the salaries they have across all sports.

When looking at the devastation and horrid conditions people are in around the world I will always look at people who want more money then they need as greedy. Guess what, people can survive quite well, and comfortably, on 50k a year. If an athlete or owner makes millions, that is fine..they are allowed. However, when they ***** and moan about not getting MORE millions, they are greedy. End of story.

It is only the lowest of humans who would pick extra millions over helping humanity strive to unity. And I hold no sympathy over their failed attempts to get extra millions. Not to mention those who support them.

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11-04-2012, 11:45 AM
  #702
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Can we not turn this into a debate about stupid ****?

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11-04-2012, 12:21 PM
  #703
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I hope whatever occurred during the talks leads to the end of this stupid lockout.

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11-04-2012, 12:27 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Mkoll View Post
And I am sick and tired of people thinking athletes *need* to get paid the salaries they have across all sports.

When looking at the devastation and horrid conditions people are in around the world I will always look at people who want more money then they need as greedy. Guess what, people can survive quite well, and comfortably, on 50k a year. If an athlete or owner makes millions, that is fine..they are allowed. However, when they ***** and moan about not getting MORE millions, they are greedy. End of story.

It is only the lowest of humans who would pick extra millions over helping humanity strive to unity. And I hold no sympathy over their failed attempts to get extra millions. Not to mention those who support them.
That's a great outlook to have, but an unrealistic one.

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11-04-2012, 12:55 PM
  #705
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As has been said, there is only a single failure on a southern team on his watch.

How do people not understand that without expansion into markets that are not traditional hockey markets, you will never see those big TV deals. You need to expand and grow if you want prime time TV slots. Minnesota, Colorado, San Jose have all been massive success stories, stories that have allowed bettman to put forth bigger proposals towards TV companies.

Why bother with 3 more teams in Canada to a TV company, they already watch the games anyway.
Which teams are causing the league to supposedly lose money? Besides the Islanders (and probably NJ), it's those southern expansion teams. I highly doubt Florida, Phoenix or TB have any bearing on TV deals, their TV ratings are abysmal. Last year (or the year before? I don't recall) there was a ratings report which showed late night infomercials netted more viewers during the reg season than the Panthers.

The Panthers have a great arena deal, but teams like Phoenix, Anaheim, and Nashville do nothing but leak money and have put the league in this supposedly dire position. It gives Bettman a convenient excuse to use his go-to negotiating tactic though, so I doubt he minds so much. Moving Phoenix and Anaheim would probably be a good idea. A two team contraction on top of that is probably also needed, but it would never happen.

The southern expansion has been an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't exactly call it a success. The results are mixed at best. Shuffling Phoenix and Anaheim to Quebec and Seattle won't affect TV deals. Nixing Columbus and NYI won't either.

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11-04-2012, 01:22 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Which teams are causing the league to supposedly lose money? Besides the Islanders (and probably NJ), it's those southern expansion teams. I highly doubt Florida, Phoenix or TB have any bearing on TV deals, their TV ratings are abysmal. Last year (or the year before? I don't recall) there was a ratings report which showed late night infomercials netted more viewers during the reg season than the Panthers.

The Panthers have a great arena deal, but teams like Phoenix, Anaheim, and Nashville do nothing but leak money and have put the league in this supposedly dire position. It gives Bettman a convenient excuse to use his go-to negotiating tactic though, so I doubt he minds so much. Moving Phoenix and Anaheim would probably be a good idea. A two team contraction on top of that is probably also needed, but it would never happen.

The southern expansion has been an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't exactly call it a success. The results are mixed at best. Shuffling Phoenix and Anaheim to Quebec and Seattle won't affect TV deals. Nixing Columbus and NYI won't either.
Is that true??? Not disputing it, just think it is hilarious.

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11-04-2012, 01:30 PM
  #707
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Is that true??? Not disputing it, just think it is hilarious.
Yeah, there was a mainboard thread about it

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11-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Yeah, there was a mainboard thread about it
http://larrybrownsports.com/hockey/f...mercials/55667

Quote:
The Panthers have averaged a .19 local TV rating, placing them last of the 22 teams studied by the Sports Business Daily. Barry Jackson of The Miami Herald took things a step farther and learned that the Panthers, who average around 3,000 viewers per game, are watched less than infomercials for the AbCoaster, and Ninja Professional Blender, Chopper and Ice Crusher. Now that’s sad.

But..
http://panthers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=629635

Quote:
SUNRISE, FLA – Sunrise Sports & Entertainment announced today that Florida Panthers’ local television ratings have experienced a huge increase during the Stanley Cup Playoffs thus far.

The average television ratings in the Broward/Miami-Dade DMA during the Panthers’ First Round Games 1, 4 and 5 on FOX Sports Florida and Game 3 on SUN Sports, have seen a 432-percent increase compared to the average regular season ratings for Panthers broadcasts.
Winning brings viewers.

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11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
  #709
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Wow. That is terrible.

Quote:
But..
http://panthers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=629635



Winning brings viewers.
Still a bleak situation.

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11-04-2012, 02:43 PM
  #710
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Bob Mckenzie said they talked for a long time, talked about core issues, and plan to meet again early this week. Good signs.

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11-04-2012, 02:44 PM
  #711
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Wow. That is terrible.



Still a bleak situation.
Not really bleak. This is why many other people, including myself, point out to people that they shouldn't be moved because they are in a prime position to get a stronger following in that area. They finally have an actual team coming together. Before this year, they weren't in the playoffs for 10 or so years. What non-traditional market coud withstand that?

They have a good team coming along with a bunch of good prospects. Great time for that franchise

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11-04-2012, 02:47 PM
  #712
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I agree on all counts. I have to wonder if Bettman et al really understand how bad this looks to people. 3 lockouts on his watch is too many. Get rid of him and his half-baked, southern expansion ideas and give the game the respect it deserves.
I think he knows, he just doesn't care. I guess as long as he feels his bank account is worth more than his legacy.

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11-04-2012, 03:11 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I said regular season, not postseason. During the playoffs viewership will naturally be up. TB and Florida have had post season success and good teams before and it hasn't done much for their long term viewership or attendance.

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11-04-2012, 03:16 PM
  #714
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Not really bleak. This is why many other people, including myself, point out to people that they shouldn't be moved because they are in a prime position to get a stronger following in that area. They finally have an actual team coming together. Before this year, they weren't in the playoffs for 10 or so years. What non-traditional market coud withstand that?

They have a good team coming along with a bunch of good prospects. Great time for that franchise
I have a cousin who lives down there. She says the area is mostly all about basketball (and some baseball and football). Even when the Panthers were winning, everyone focused on the other teams which have had more success now and in the past. She said hockey just is not a big thing down there, no matter how they do. She isnt really a sports person, but she said her and her friends had a chance to go to the Heat or Panthers game, and currently the easy decision was the Heat.

Seems that the culture down there is also a main thing to consider. In the spanish areas (which Florida has AlOT of), seems like basketball is liked a lot.

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Old
11-04-2012, 03:19 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I have a cousin who lives down there. She says the area is mostly all about basketball and football. Even when the Panthers were winning, everyone focused on the other teams which have had more success now and in the past. She said hockey just is not a big thing down there, no matter how they do. She isnt really a sports person, but she said her and her friends had a chance to go to the Heat or Panthers game, and currently the easy decision is the Heat.
Going to see the team that just won the championship? Shocking

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11-04-2012, 03:20 PM
  #716
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Going to see the team that just won the championship? Shocking
This was WAY before the championship . Before even Lebron joined the team.

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11-04-2012, 03:28 PM
  #717
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This was WAY before the championship . Before even Lebron joined the team.
So, you're talking about 2006 ish?

After they won the championship? Shocking.

But this is the first time in awhile that the Panthers have had a good team..

Using the 2005-06 season as a benchmark :

Panthers finished 11th in the east and 4th in their conference.

Their top 3 scorers were :

Olli Jokinen at 89 pts
Joe Nieuwendyk at 56 points
Jozef Stumpel at 52 points

Best goaltender was Luongo who was traded right after the season for :Todd bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, and Alex Auld

The team had no real face of the franchise. Jokinen was good but he's not the type of player that you want as a franchise player

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11-04-2012, 03:32 PM
  #718
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So, you're talking about 2006 ish?

After they won the championship? Shocking.

But this is the first time in awhile that the Panthers have had a good team..

Using the 2005-06 season as a benchmark :

Panthers finished 11th in the east and 4th in their conference.

Their top 3 scorers were :

Olli Jokinen at 89 pts
Joe Nieuwendyk at 56 points
Jozef Stumpel at 52 points

Best goaltender was Luongo who was traded right after the season for :Todd bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, and Alex Auld

The team had no real face of the franchise. Jokinen was good but he's not the type of player that you want as a franchise player
Are you trying to argue that the Panthers will now be a significant team in their area and will actually produce ratings that will matter to national networks?

These southern teams have had good teams and playoff runs before. It hasn't mattered. They're still irrelevant when it comes to national broadcasting.

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11-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I said regular season, not postseason. During the playoffs viewership will naturally be up. TB and Florida have had post season success and good teams before and it hasn't done much for their long term viewership or attendance.
Why bring Tampa into it? Last year they averaged more than the Rangers, Boston and San Jose.

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11-04-2012, 03:38 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
So, you're talking about 2006 ish?

After they won the championship? Shocking.

But this is the first time in awhile that the Panthers have had a good team..

Using the 2005-06 season as a benchmark :

Panthers finished 11th in the east and 4th in their conference.

Their top 3 scorers were :

Olli Jokinen at 89 pts
Joe Nieuwendyk at 56 points
Jozef Stumpel at 52 points

Best goaltender was Luongo who was traded right after the season for :Todd bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, and Alex Auld

The team had no real face of the franchise. Jokinen was good but he's not the type of player that you want as a franchise player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Are you trying to argue that the Panthers will now be a significant team in their area and will actually produce ratings that will matter to national networks?

These southern teams have had good teams and playoff runs before. It hasn't mattered. They're still irrelevant when it comes to national broadcasting.
Exactly what I am saying. As someone who lived down there plus knows ALOT of people from the area, the Panthers are pretty insignificant down there, and have been for a long time. I can't see a playoff run from last year being such a big difference maker.

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11-04-2012, 03:44 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Are you trying to argue that the Panthers will now be a significant team in their area and will actually produce ratings that will matter to national networks?

These southern teams have had good teams and playoff runs before. It hasn't mattered. They're still irrelevant when it comes to national broadcasting.
Who's to say they won't be? Good teams attract fans.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Exactly what I am saying. As someone who lived down there plus knows ALOT of people from the area, the Panthers are pretty insignificant down there, and have been for a long time. I can't see a playoff run from last year being such a big difference maker.
You say they have been for a long time. What runs in line what that insignificance? A long no playoff streak.

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11-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #722
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Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
NHLPA negotiating committee call has ended.Discussion focus on present state of negotiations.Still expect to meet NHL early this week.#TSN

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11-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #723
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Why bring Tampa into it? Last year they averaged more than the Rangers, Boston and San Jose.
Where are you finding that?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...N-ratings.aspx

That says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Who's to say they won't be? Good teams attract fans.
They've been good in the past, it didn't make a difference. They were good last year, and it barely made a difference.

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11-04-2012, 04:04 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Where are you finding that?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...N-ratings.aspx

That says otherwise.



They've been good in the past, it didn't make a difference. They were good last year, and it barely made a difference.
To rate their tv ratings from when they were actually good in the 90s, I would have to do research that I don't feel like doing right now. Maybe later I'll look them up

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11-04-2012, 04:36 PM
  #725
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To rate their tv ratings from when they were actually good in the 90s, I would have to do research that I don't feel like doing right now. Maybe later I'll look them up
I'm trying to find them and not having much luck. Finding a comprehensive list of all teams' TV ratings for last year seems impossible, I don't think we'll find it for the mid to late 90s

According to Forbes, they lost 6.5 million bucks in 2002, 6 years removed from a Finals run and two years after making the playoffs. Even when they were fairly successful and had a star in Pavel Bure they were losing money.

Florida is of marginal importance (likely zero) when it comes to negotiating TV contracts. Bettman is probably using Pitt, Philly, Boston, NYR, and Detroit to make those deals. All they do is lose money and provide pretty much zero benefit to the league...aside from creating jobs for players and coaches/staff.

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