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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:55 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by El Emperor View Post
Is it safe to say that Phoenix is done? I cannot see anyone taking on that franchise as an owner. It was already an uphill battle, but now it won't have any chance.
how hooped must Nashville be now.. gotta pay all that $$$ to Weber and there isnt even a season..

Yikes...

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11-16-2012, 12:21 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
how hooped must Nashville be now.. gotta pay all that $$$ to Weber and there isnt even a season..

Yikes...
I really wish these owners against the continued lockout would just get together and put pressure on the remaining few that refuse to budge at all.

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11-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #928
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Is it safe to say that Phoenix is done? I cannot see anyone taking on that franchise as an owner. It was already an uphill battle, but now it won't have any chance.
I would think so -- but the teams that I feel the most sorry for are Nashville (who has pretty good fan support, but without a long history of fandom may lose quite a few) and LA (who had the potential to build on the momentum from the Cup run). Florida stands to lose a lot too, after finally making the playoffs for the first time in years.

Teams like the Rangers, Wings, Flyers and the Canadian teams will be just fine - fans have a legacy of supporting their teams, a few generations as fans, or have grown up with those teams in their blood from birth.

Minnesota/Dallas/Tampa could struggle quite a bit.

Of course, all this assumes that the two sides come to a freakin' deal and get the damn game going again.

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11-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
So because you are frustrated and not getting your way , you just quit , not in his job description?

Not all teams want a lockout, and Fehr has done zero and has Gary steaming and increasing his offer everytime. Fehr will take nothing seriously until there is no other alternative.

I know you 100% blame the PA, but little Gary has met his match and is rattled like never before.

For the record, my view is both sides are equally ****ed and share equal blame.
Some around here think the players should of bent over for Bettman and the owners back when the negotiations began. because hey the owners are always right and the players are the only ones who are greedy good for nothing ********.

i do agree tho that BOTH sides deserve the blame for where we are right now.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 11-16-2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason: added think
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11-16-2012, 12:46 PM
  #930
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Unless we see some substantial changes to revenue sharing we're just going to find ourselves back in the same position in a few years.

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Old
11-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #931
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I agree. there seems to be so much stupporness on both sides to not give an inch. We will likely go thru this cycle until someone wakes up and realizes we are slowly killing this great sport with this stupidity from both sides.

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11-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #932
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Nah...the league can quickly recover its reputation if they sign a TV deal with Fox sports and bring back the glowing puck and rock and sock em Robots cartoon after each goal...


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 11-16-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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Old
11-16-2012, 01:17 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
If my alternative was to take a pay cut or not get paid at all, I know what I'm choosing. Would I be okay with it, no. But I know a ton of people in the last few years who were given the option to: "Take a X% decrease in salary or get laid off". People took the salary reduction.

I also find revenue sharing a bad idea without some serious guidelines on how the revenue share money should be used. I don't want a Jeff Loria-type owner to get a ton of revenue sharing money, and instead of using to make a market viable, they pocket it as profit. The owners against revenue sharing just got a ton of ammunition this week thanks to Mr. Loria who is the poster child for why revenue sharing is not a good idea.
As soon as your employer realizes they can take advantage of their employees they will.

example:
employer signs a " deal" that pays employee workforce "x" a short time later, oh sorry we changed our minds, you take a 20 percent cut in pay or we will lock you out. take it or leave it.
If you cave into that that quickly your employer will take advantage of you further down the line.

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11-16-2012, 02:50 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
As soon as your employer realizes they can take advantage of their employees they will.

example:
employer signs a " deal" that pays employee workforce "x" a short time later, oh sorry we changed our minds, you take a 20 percent cut in pay or we will lock you out. take it or leave it.
If you cave into that that quickly your employer will take advantage of you further down the line.
Hockey players don't have "further down the line". For most, this will be the only CBA negotiation they will be a part of. Over half of all NHL players play less than 100 NHL games in their career. Only 4% dress for more than 1000 games. Over 60% of the current members of the NHLPA won't be around in 7 years.

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11-16-2012, 06:26 PM
  #935
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You have to wonder how badly this will impact future sponsors and also potential owners. You have Phoenix which is a laughing stock and should have been moved years ago but Bettman won't let go of his sunbelt dream, then you have the guy who owns the Kings and wants to sell them - good luck with that! Nashville is totally screwed because they were put between a rock and hard place and have to pay Weber all these bonuses without him stepping in the country and they lost Suter as well. Minny had momentum after their two acquisitions but now are stuck with paying their signing bonuses while they get no return. I bet a lot of other teams end up folding soon.

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11-16-2012, 10:12 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
You have Phoenix which is a laughing stock and should have been moved years ago but Bettman won't let go of his sunbelt dream, then you have the guy who owns the Kings and wants to sell them - good luck with that!
Craig Button said something interesting on the THN podcast, though. He held a view the league was forced into this situation by the last Phoenix owner going bankrupt, prompting something to be done. He also added that basically the league wants to add some stability to where the franchises are, and not move them by wish and whim. And I don't know how much influence this has, but he said that the other three major leagues also supported such a stance. So I have to say I understand him wanting to keep the Coyotes put, although once things get too far, you just have to do something. I don't know, I'm kind of on the fence about this whole situation, because I also like that there are teams in non-traditional markets. It just adds charm to the league, I think, so that things don't get boring. I also believe it's good he has some vision, even though many disagree with it, because you need someone with strong opinions on the board. In the end, it does boil down to what is sustainable in the long run, but moving teams too often would not be a way to run the league, either. And by that, I'm not saying I'm taking his side at all, I just wanted to comment on this.

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:28 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Craig Button said something interesting on the THN podcast, though. He held a view the league was forced into this situation by the last Phoenix owner going bankrupt, prompting something to be done. He also added that basically the league wants to add some stability to where the franchises are, and not move them by wish and whim. And I don't know how much influence this has, but he said that the other three major leagues also supported such a stance. So I have to say I understand him wanting to keep the Coyotes put, although once things get too far, you just have to do something. I don't know, I'm kind of on the fence about this whole situation, because I also like that there are teams in non-traditional markets. It just adds charm to the league, I think, so that things don't get boring. I also believe it's good he has some vision, even though many disagree with it, because you need someone with strong opinions on the board. In the end, it does boil down to what is sustainable in the long run, but moving teams too often would not be a way to run the league, either. And by that, I'm not saying I'm taking his side at all, I just wanted to comment on this.

They should have just let Balsillie buy them...

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Old
11-16-2012, 10:36 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
They should have just let Balsillie buy them...
Care to explain? I haven't been following what was going on when it was going on, so I have no clue what you're talking about and/or whether it was a sarcastic or honest remark

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Old
11-16-2012, 11:16 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
They should have just let Balsillie buy them...
He said stability.

Balsillie wanted to move them to Quebec just like he wanted to do when he tried to buy the predators in 2007

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11-16-2012, 11:21 PM
  #940
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I bet Seattle gets a team before Quebec does.

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Old
11-17-2012, 06:43 AM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Care to explain? I haven't been following what was going on when it was going on, so I have no clue what you're talking about and/or whether it was a sarcastic or honest remark
Jim Balsillie wanted to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton, Ontario, but didn't want to play by the Old Boys Club rules. He ended up in court and lost. Since then, the league has owned the team. So basically, the team could have moved to a hockey mad area, sold out every night and brought in more money for the league but instead it's been an albatross to the league and the city of Glendale.

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Old
11-17-2012, 06:49 AM
  #942
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Jim Balsillie wanted to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton, Ontario, but didn't want to play by the Old Boys Club rules. He ended up in court and lost. Since then, the league has owned the team. So basically, the team could have moved to a hockey mad area, sold out every night and brought in more money for the league but instead it's been an albatross to the league and the city of Glendale.
Since you have such a nice crystal ball, could you use it to tell us when the Lockout is going to end?

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11-17-2012, 07:23 AM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Jim Balsillie wanted to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton, Ontario, but didn't want to play by the Old Boys Club rules. He ended up in court and lost. Since then, the league has owned the team. So basically, the team could have moved to a hockey mad area, sold out every night and brought in more money for the league but instead it's been an albatross to the league and the city of Glendale.
And since then, one team has moved, and a second has announced their intention to move into an arena not driven by their bus. The Phoenix issue has long since been personal for Bettman. I don't agree with this, but come hell or high water he'll find a way to keep the Coyotes there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
how hooped must Nashville be now.. gotta pay all that $$$ to Weber and there isnt even a season..

Yikes...
That was the risk they took in matching the offer sheet, and a big reason why the Flyers stuck all that front-loaded money in the contract.


On another note, Frank Seravalli writes that Ed Snider is getting antsy

http://mobile.philly.com/sports/?wss...viewAll=y#more

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Old
11-17-2012, 07:24 AM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I bet Seattle gets a team before Quebec does.
I love this idea. Instant rivalry with the Canucks.

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Old
11-17-2012, 08:08 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I bet Seattle gets a team before Quebec does.
I could see it. Seattle seems to be a pretty good sports town.

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:06 AM
  #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Jim Balsillie wanted to buy the Yotes and move them to Hamilton, Ontario, but didn't want to play by the Old Boys Club rules. He ended up in court and lost. Since then, the league has owned the team. So basically, the team could have moved to a hockey mad area, sold out every night and brought in more money for the league but instead it's been an albatross to the league and the city of Glendale.
Balsille tried to break league rules and ignore the NHL in his effort to get NHL team

Winnipeg played things right way and got a team

Balsille not only tried to breakup the foundations of NHL bylaws he put NFL/MLB/NBA at risk as well (Which is why all 3 supported the NHL in court)

And last I looked Balsille's company has plummeted ,, Its a great thing the NHL doesn't have him as an owner as he would have been trying to dump his team the moment his company started to fail

Bettman had to fight (As any commish) to prevent what Balsille/Moyes tried to do. In the end a court agreed with NHL and its actions

Also Hamilton is never going to have an NHL team. Arena is not NHL caliber (And Balsille wanted taxpayers to pay for its ronovation) and it would be a risk to Buffalo franchise + If Canadian $$$ falls any point in future the NHL would have to bail out franchise like they did Ott/Cal/Edm

Funny those that crusade against NHL and its actions with regards to Phoenix forget the NHL saved hockey in Edmonton/Buffalo/Ottawa/Calgary in late 90's/early 00's

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11-17-2012, 11:27 AM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Funny those that crusade against NHL and its actions with regards to Phoenix forget the NHL saved hockey in Edmonton/Buffalo/Ottawa/Calgary in late 90's/early 00's
I made a long post about this around the time the lockout happened. No matter what's given to the people that hate the owners and bettman, they almost never acknowledge their achievements

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:30 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I bet Seattle gets a team before Quebec does.
I certainly hope so...

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Old
11-17-2012, 11:47 AM
  #949
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Since you have such a nice crystal ball, could you use it to tell us when the Lockout is going to end?
You do not need a crystal ball to suggest Hamilton ( Toronto) would not be sold out every game. Season ticket drive there would crush what Winnipeg did. ( who have 3-5 years guaranteed sell outs).

Also nice to hear Ed is getting antsy, time for him to ***** slap the little puke and end this mess.

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11-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #950
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You do not need a crystal ball to suggest Hamilton ( Toronto) would not be sold out every game. Season ticket drive there would crush what Winnipeg did. ( who have 3-5 years guaranteed sell outs).

Also nice to hear Ed is getting antsy, time for him to ***** slap the little puke and end this mess.
Go Ed! And yes, response in Hamilton would be through the roof. There are enough hockey fans in southern Ontario to easily support 2 teams, probably 3.

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