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Tallon won't trade Bjugstad for Luongo

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10-17-2012, 12:58 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
And every other non-Canuck fan says "good luck with that!"

Mike Gillis is not going to get any significant assets out of another GM for Roberto's services. Roberto's value still sucks and the inevitable reduction in the cap in a year will further hamper Gillis's attempts to get rid of him.

I still say he's worth something like a middle of the pack prospect and a third or fourth round pick. There has been no indications that any GM will pay a significant price for Roberto.
Sorry but you can't have it both ways. You argued the uncertainty of the CBA and Luongo retiring and leaving the other team on the hook reduced his value. Those impediments will now be removed. His value goes up.
And there has been no indication that a GM will offer significant assets because we are in a lockout. Once the deal is consumated I think that we will see a trade done fairly quickly. Certainly your GM will be interested given the shoddy goaltending you had last year.

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10-17-2012, 01:00 PM
  #577
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You have a lot of dead money coming off the books next offseason with guys like Lombardi and Connolly. You only have 41.5m committed with Lupul and maybe Bozak to sign and you can probably trade Reimer and get him off the books. Toronto can make it work pretty easily and it would be well worth the investment imo.
True, and please remember, i am one who wanted Luongo...the Leafs have ALOT of needs including a#1C as well as #1G. If this new info has people believing the asking price has gone up...then there is no way the Leafs can make a deal as we don't have the expendable pieces.

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10-17-2012, 01:01 PM
  #578
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Sorry but you can't have it both ways. You argued the uncertainty of the CBA and Luongo retiring and leaving the other team on the hook reduced his value. Those impediments will now be removed. His value goes up.
And there has been no indication that a GM will offer significant assets because we are in a lockout. Once the deal is consumated I think that we will see a trade done fairly quickly. Certainly your GM will be interested given the shoddy goaltending you had last year.
uncertainty reduced value due to the possibility of a role back in the cap. now that's a reality, the value goes down further.

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10-17-2012, 01:01 PM
  #579
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really disagree here. Toronto is a rebuilding team and Luongo is older. Toronto need a goalie that will peak in two to three years. They don't need an aging goalie with an anchor of a contract on the back end.
Sure. And we could use a number one stud defenceman like Weber. Unfortunately no one is going to give one to us.
If you know of any young stud goalies on great contracts that Toronto can acquire at a reasonable price then by all means go for it. Maybe call up Montreal and LA and ask what they want for Price or Quick. The reality is that Luongo is the only legitimate number one goalie on the market.

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10-17-2012, 01:04 PM
  #580
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Sure. And we could use a number one stud defenceman like Weber. Unfortunately no one is going to give one to us.
If you know of any young stud goalies on great contracts that Toronto can acquire at a reasonable price then by all means go for it. Maybe call up Montreal and LA and ask what they want for Price or Quick. The reality is that Luongo is the only legitimate number one goalie on the market.
Vancouver is a team that is looking for one last piece for the cup. Toronto is rebuilding. Vancouver should be looking for that last piece. Toronto should not.

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10-17-2012, 01:04 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
uncertainty reduced value due to the possibility of a role back in the cap. now that's a reality, the value goes down further.
There was always going to be reduction in the players's share. Whether there is a roll back in the cap is still an open question. Most experts I've read think that it is unlikely that there will be a significant one. If that is the case then I think it's clear that his value has gone up. We'll see who is right. But many of you arguing for a low value have changed your arguments since the CBA came out. A bit of sucking and blowing going on.


Last edited by vanwest: 10-17-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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10-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #582
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There was always going to be reduction in the players's hare. Whether there is a roll back in the cap is still an open question. Most experts I've read think that it is unlikely that there will be a significant one. If that is the case then I think it's clear that his value has gone up. We'll see who is right. But many of you arguing for a low value have changed your arguments since the CBA came out. A bit of sucking and blowing going on.
no. no one besides Vancouver fans are arguing Luongo has a high value.

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10-17-2012, 01:09 PM
  #583
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Vancouver is a team that is looking for one last piece for the cup. Toronto is rebuilding. Vancouver should be looking for that last piece. Toronto should not.
You know the Leafs situation better than me. I'll only say that based on what I've seen in Vancouver a stud goaltender makes it a lot easier for young defencemen and forwards to grow and gain confidence knowing that every mistake doesn't end up in the back of the net. I think that the Leafs need more stability in net starting this season. If a young stud goalie was available I agree with you that he would be a better fit. The problem is though that none is available and even if there was one you would have to gut your team to get him. Going into this season with Reimer/Scrivens as your goalies is a huge mistake IMO and will impact the development of your young players.


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10-17-2012, 01:11 PM
  #584
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no. no one besides Vancouver fans are arguing Luongo has a high value.
I've seen a number of non Vancouver posters come up with some interesting proposals on here in the last couple of days that I would consider fair value. I've also seen a number of posters, mostly Leaf fans, arguing that he has negative value or is worth a fourth round pick. I've bookmarked a couple of those posts. We'll see who is right.

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10-17-2012, 01:44 PM
  #585
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uncertainty reduced value due to the possibility of a role back in the cap. now that's a reality, the value goes down further.
No matter what way you look at it, 5.3m is a good deal for a goalie of Lu's calibre, that's never been an issue. Now that it looks like the Canucks take the hit when he retires, that deal becomes a whole lot better. The Leafs would get the lower cap hit while the Canucks are on the hook when he retires. That's a great deal for whoever lands Lu. A tighter cap means contracts are even more important, Lu's cap hit helps a team fit in a great goalie.

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no. no one besides Vancouver fans are arguing Luongo has a high value.
Of course not, why would they? Part of the fun of HF is carving up other teams players, Leaf fans should know this better than anyone.

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10-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #586
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No matter what way you look at it, 5.3m is a good deal for a goalie of Lu's calibre [...]
Sure it is, for the next year... maybe two, depending on exactly how far the cap will drop. But after that is anyone's guess. Roberto could fall flat on his face as he starts getting older and then the team that acquires him has a $5.3m anchor on the bench, similar to the situation the Canucks themselves are currently experiencing.

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10-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #587
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Its kind of funny how people were saying "haha have fun paying Luongo for the next 10 years" and Vancouver fans were like "nah its cool... Its only 6 years really" and now suddenly other teams fans are going "haha have fun when Luongo retires in 6 years!"

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10-17-2012, 01:54 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Sure it is, for the next year... maybe two, depending on exactly how far the cap will drop. But after that is anyone's guess. Roberto could fall flat on his face as he starts getting older and then the team that acquires him has a $5.3m anchor on the bench, similar to the situation the Canucks themselves are currently experiencing.
Obviously you are not familar with the Canucks situation. Let me enlighten you.
We have two great goalies. One of whom is 5 or 6 years younger then the other. Neither is an anchor on the bench. We are blessed with an overabundance of talent in one position and have needs in other positions. Not surprisingly, we are looking at trading one of our great goalies for help in other areas. Since there are a number of teams with a need in net the plan is that one of those teams will come up with a good offer to acquire our goaltender. That's how trades usually work.

Now if only there were a few teams who needed a great goalie?

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10-17-2012, 01:56 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Its kind of funny how people were saying "haha have fun paying Luongo for the next 10 years" and Vancouver fans were like "nah its cool... Its only 6 years really" and now suddenly other teams fans are going "haha have fun when Luongo retires in 6 years!"
There has been a fair amount of sucking and blowing going on.
To be fair, there have also been some pretty level headed responses as well though.

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10-17-2012, 02:01 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Sure it is, for the next year... maybe two, depending on exactly how far the cap will drop. But after that is anyone's guess. Roberto could fall flat on his face as he starts getting older and then the team that acquires him has a $5.3m anchor on the bench, similar to the situation the Canucks themselves are currently experiencing.
This is a risk with any player, any age. It's less of an issue when the player is consistent and stays healthy, both apply to Lu. It's also less of an issue when their cap hit is less than their play dictates, which is also the case. Lu could take a step back and would still be worth 5.3m.

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10-17-2012, 02:02 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Think again.

According to the information McKenzie provided us with, if Luongo is traded then retires at age 38, Vancouver would be stuck with the cap-hit throughout the remaining years (the cap circumventing years). My point is, if true, the CBA wouldn't have screwed the Canucks, the Canucks would have effectively done that to themselves trying to circumvent the cap.
Well, the NHL is going back and retroactively punishing teams for it's own mistakes in the wording of the last CBA. I'm not saying it's fair or not because those deals were not done in good faith, all I'm saying is that it screws some teams that's the fact of the matter.

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10-17-2012, 02:06 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Its kind of funny how people were saying "haha have fun paying Luongo for the next 10 years" and Vancouver fans were like "nah its cool... Its only 6 years really" and now suddenly other teams fans are going "haha have fun when Luongo retires in 6 years!"
it has always been about the contract and the fact he will not play it out. That is the belief of many posters.

If there is a penalty clause for the contracts for the players who retire early--the amusement could be well placed

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10-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Sure it is, for the next year... maybe two, depending on exactly how far the cap will drop. But after that is anyone's guess. Roberto could fall flat on his face as he starts getting older and then the team that acquires him has a $5.3m anchor on the bench, similar to the situation the Canucks themselves are currently experiencing.
Henrik Lundqvist could fall on his face as he starts to get older. Pekke Rinne could fall on his face as he gets older.

Luongo would accout for less than 9% of a 60 million cap.
You could say the same thing about any goalie, but

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10-17-2012, 02:12 PM
  #594
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it has always been about the contract and the fact he will not play it out. That is the belief of many posters.
If that was the case then the news about the current cba should have helped alleviate those concerns. Unfortunately, the name of the game for most posters is chipping away at Lu's HF asset value, I hobby of a lot of posters.

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10-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #595
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it has always been about the contract and the fact he will not play it out. That is the belief of many posters.

If there is a penalty clause for the contracts for the players who retire early--the amusement could be well placed
The risk that he would not play out the contract has now been removed from the team trading for him. As I said earlier, his value has now gone up subject to the players negotiating a soft landing for the new cap.

You can't have it both ways by arguing that "it has always been about the contract and the fact he will not play it out" and then argue at te same time that the Canucks being on the hook for this still reduces his value. But this is HF so who knows!

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10-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Henrik Lundqvist could fall on his face as he starts to get older. Pekke Rinne could fall on his face as he gets older.

Luongo would accout for less than 9% of a 60 million cap.
You could say the same thing about any goalie, but
Lundqvist is 30 and signed for 2 more years.
Rinned is 29 and signed for 7 more years. Bringing his contract until 37.
Luongo is 33 and signed for 10 more years. Bringing his contract until the end of time.

Do you see the difference. If Luongo was only signed until 37, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, 9% of a team's total cap is huge if that player is not contributing. Who knows where Luongo will be at 38 or 39.

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10-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #597
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If that was the case then the news about the current cba should have helped alleviate those concerns. Unfortunately, the name of the game for most posters is chipping away at Lu's HF asset value, I hobby of a lot of posters.
Assuming this CBA proposal gets passed as is (don't think it would, but for the sake of argument), is the following possible:

1. Canucks take the cap hit once (and if) Lu retires
2. Canucks give the team $7 mil (along with Luongo) to pay for the salary years from 2018 to 2022... Or $9 mil, $3 mil in each of the first three years...

If so, the value for Luongo should go up... Team can even invest that $7 (9) mil to help pay for Lu's contract going forward...

If this is possible, what effects Lu's value now? The lump on his nose?

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10-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #598
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Lundqvist is 30 and signed for 2 more years.
Rinned is 29 and signed for 7 more years. Bringing his contract until 37.
Luongo is 33 and signed for 10 more years. Bringing his contract until the end of time.

Do you see the difference. If Luongo was only signed until 37, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, 9% of a team's total cap is huge if that player is not contributing. Who knows where Luongo will be at 38 or 39.
If Vancouver is on the hook if he retires then I see very little difference.
If the cap stays around $65 million or so then at $5.3 million it's a pretty good deal. Add to that the fact that no one else of a similar quality is available and I think that his value went up. I'm still not expecting to get a ton back but I think we're looking at a fair deal now and one that likely involves two or three teams in the mix. I'd be surprised if a deal isn't done within a week of the CBA being signed.

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10-17-2012, 02:29 PM
  #599
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what effects Lu's value now?
We'll be back to talking about Lu the playoff choker in no time. Gotta love HF.

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10-17-2012, 02:36 PM
  #600
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We'll be back to talking about Lu the playoff choker in no time. Gotta love HF.
It's a bit of a moving target:
1. We don't know what the new CBA will say.
2. He'll retire in 6 years and screw the team acquiring him.
3. He will become a plug in 6 years and will refuse to retire.
4. He's a cancer who will destroy Vancouver's dressing room so Gillis will need to take back a salary dump.
5. He's too old. We'd rather have Quick or Price. I hear LA and Montreal are interested in giving them away.


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