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The Official New Arena Thread: Part 5

View Poll Results: Which Possible Perceptions Of Edmonton Based On The New Arena Matter To You?
Making Edmonton more of a tourist attraction 38 27.94%
Making Edmonton seem more business friendly 39 28.68%
Making Edmonton seem more modern 81 59.56%
Making Edmonton seem like it has more to offer than industry 56 41.18%
I don't give a damn what people outside of our city think, we pay the bills 18 13.24%
It's a hockey and entertainment arena, it won't change the city much/or at all 34 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #26
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Sorry. Screwed up a link.
http://tpr.alberta.ca/tourism/statis...lberta2010.pdf


I've had difficulty running down stats specific to attractions.
Thanks again, yeah hard to find. I had some information from past years but I had to reformat my harddrive 6mths ago.

I enjoy looking through stats like this.

The Edmonton/Calgary numbers always surprise me being so similar but when I've seen specific attraction numbers WEM is the top draw in the province. Kind of sad really given that the National Parks used to be. No accounting for taste.

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10-13-2012, 10:31 PM
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The Fringe is big. So is the Folk Music Festival.

I see the river valley system as having huge potential. Combine Old Strathcona with the river valley and a fun downtown linked with good transit all the way up to the airport lands, and you could have an international tourist draw.

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10-13-2012, 11:37 PM
  #28
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The Fringe is big. So is the Folk Music Festival.

I see the river valley system as having huge potential. Combine Old Strathcona with the river valley and a fun downtown linked with good transit all the way up to the airport lands, and you could have an international tourist draw.
You missed the Heritage Festival. imo one of the best things we got going. The Folk Festival is very limited attendance and always sold out so not really much of a draw. Its almost unanimously Edmontonians going.

I'd like to see some different ideas for the river valley. Duckboats to take people up and down the river or to tourist spots. This would be great to take visitors to different areas. Boston afairc uses these. They navigate in water or on dryland. Perfect vehicle for here as we have a lot of sights along the river.
A river valley tramway would be interesting as well. We really need to use our river more as a city.

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10-14-2012, 12:49 AM
  #29
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You missed the Heritage Festival. imo one of the best things we got going. The Folk Festival is very limited attendance and always sold out so not really much of a draw. Its almost unanimously Edmontonians going.

I'd like to see some different ideas for the river valley. Duckboats to take people up and down the river or to tourist spots. This would be great to take visitors to different areas. Boston afairc uses these. They navigate in water or on dryland. Perfect vehicle for here as we have a lot of sights along the river.
A river valley tramway would be interesting as well. We really need to use our river more as a city.
Especially the area of riverbank where the old landfill is slowing eroding into the river

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10-14-2012, 01:16 AM
  #30
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Watching/playing hockey period. Either participating or viewing another club could suffice. It did before the NHL and it could after. I actually think the WHA was the better product but thats another conversation.

I missed where they have one of the most beautiful mountain ranges in the world nearby. I've been through on a train, didn't stop in Manchester. Not much interest in it at all nor do I expect tourists to be interested in Edmonton. See how that works. I'm fine with it both ways. Some places are tourist draws, some aren't. Industrial cities tend not to make good visitor locations. As such I don't spend time in places like Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle. Many other places in the UK that are better stopping points. With or without an arena. Has zero relevance to me what Manchester has in that regard.

Your original statement regarding the beauty of Alberta and the multitude of options available to the public had nothing to do with tourism...it was based on the availability of options to the locals. Your ignorance of any region outside of Edmonton is apparent. Don't change the subject.


Its not entirely different but in the UK, and in South America they tend to take the beautiful game to extremes. It is deplorable when people get shot for letting in the losing goal. Or when theres a contract killing on a referee, or when a visiting side is terrified that they won't get out of the stadium alive. Or when they intentionally lose because they think better about winning a game on hostile territory, or when fans loot and rampage regularly be it at home or on the road. I think in general terms people can do without that violent level of obsession.

So now you denegrate the people of different regions that live in similar "working class" cities by questioning their ties to the team? Pretty sure there were fires burning and damage to public property on Whyte St in the last cup run...

You asked a question and I took the time to answer it as honestly as I could. You respond indicating I am ignorant. Kind of disappointing that you would respond in that way.
I asked a question - you twisted the answer to suit your opinion. Take it how you want.

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10-14-2012, 01:51 PM
  #31
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Has this been posted and discussed yet? It compares what we know about the Katz-City deal with five other arenas.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...son/index.html

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10-14-2012, 05:41 PM
  #32
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Has this been posted and discussed yet? It compares what we know about the Katz-City deal with five other arenas.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...son/index.html
I wanted to touch on that a bit sometime. Its a good rundown and I took a good look at in the paper. LOL that they got the Nationwide and Consol arenas mixed up. I guess the picture with "Nationwide" signage right front center wasn't a dead giveaway for the proofreader..How exactly do they get the pictures wrong when the buildings are clearly labeled?

One of the things that has leaped out at me all along is the 5K "luxury seats" in the new downtown arena which is far more than any of the other arenas and our current one. These include, Loge seating, suites, and the proposed skypaddock seating. This making up 5K of the attendance of 18.5K. The massive increase in the amounts of luxury seats means that even with a moderate increase in capacity attendance from 16,850 to 18,500 that with 5000 of these being luxury seats it means that there will be even less affordably priced tickets in the new arena. I believe presently, and people can correct me, that Rexall currently has in the neighbourhood of 1200 luxury seats. So in the new arena we're talking about a marked decrease in affordably priced seating. Note that the 5k of course does not include lowerbowl seating. Add that to the mix and easily 12K of the seats are quite high in price.

As I've stated all along I doubt theres many seats at all priced under 100bucks in the new arena. Certainly there will be around 5K seats with a pricetag we've not generally seen much before. Loge seating and sky paddock seating are uber premium seating amenities that we haven't seen in this market before. Think suites seating but without having to buy the suite. Same level of premium service and premium pricing though.

The New arena sounds like a great thing if price is no object but I wonder how many people are paying close attention to the seating layout and how this will shape ticket pricing in the new facility. Then add the 10% ticket tax being talked about.


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10-14-2012, 06:13 PM
  #33
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Looks like the year that the Devils' new arena opened saw an increase in average ticket price of 17% (leagueavg 7.7% increase), so if you add 10% to that the average ticket price in Edmonton could shoot up to 89 bucks from 70, which is Montreal Canadiens territory, but less than Toronto and Winnipeg.

Still apparently lots of seats under 100 bucks.

That being said it looks to me like the Devil's average ticket price has dropped about 30% since then so I don't know what to make of that.
However, Madison Square Garden avg prices went up 13% after renos and Pittsburgh went up 8 % after the new arena, so I think 17% + 10% increase estimate for the Oilers is on the high side if anything.

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10-14-2012, 06:15 PM
  #34
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I wanted to touch on that a bit sometime. Its a good rundown and I took a good look at in the paper. LOL that they got the Nationwide and Consol arenas mixed up. I guess the picture with "Nationwide" signage right front center wasn't a dead giveaway for the proofreader..How exactly do they get the pictures wrong when the buildings are clearly labeled?

One of the things that has leaped out at me all along is the 5K "luxury seats" in the new downtown arena which is far more than any of the other arenas and our current one. These include, Loge seating, suites, and the proposed skypaddock seating. This making up 5K of the attendance of 18.5K. The massive increase in the amounts of luxury seats means that even with a moderate increase in capacity attendance from 16,850 to 18,500 that with 5000 of these being luxury seats it means that there will be even less affordably priced tickets in the new arena. I believe presently, and people can correct me, that Rexall currently has in the neighbourhood of 1200 luxury seats. So in the new arena we're talking about a marked decrease in affordably priced seating. Note that the 5k of course does not include lowerbowl seating. Add that to the mix and easily 12K of the seats are quite high in price.

As I've stated all along I doubt theres many seats at all priced under 100bucks in the new arena. Certainly there will be around 5K seats with a pricetag we've not generally seen much before. Loge seating and sky paddock seating are uber premium seating amenities that we haven't seen in this market before. Think suites seating but without having to buy the suite. Same level of premium service and premium pricing though.

The New arena sounds like a great thing if price is no object but I wonder how many people are paying close attention to the seating layout and how this will shape ticket pricing in the new facility. Then add the 10% ticket tax being talked about.
Interesting point. I do wonder what they mean by premium seating though becuase the definition has not been uniform across various arenas. That has been one of the problems with the Team Marketing Data.

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10-14-2012, 06:27 PM
  #35
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Interesting point. I do wonder what they mean by premium seating though becuase the definition has not been uniform across various arenas. That has been one of the problems with the Team Marketing Data.
I don't know what specifically gets included in "premium seats" in all arenas but in this one it includes All suites, Loge, and sky paddock. It doesn't include premium bowl seats. This has been referenced before.

In the comparison used in the article premium seats includes things like Suites, loge, party suites, executive suites, club terraces etc.

Compared to all 6 of these arenas the new Edmonton downtown arena is very blueblood. Kind of odd even given that this is not a corporate town by any stretch of the imagination.

Its interesting that even the MTS center, with capacity of 3K less would still have more seats that are not premium priced seats.

We're spending the most for an arena, a luxury arena inside and out, paid for by the public.

Just another reason why I consider this a strange deal. If anything give us our 20K capacity just to appease the taxpayer. I don't mind the rink costing this much if access is increased. As it stands the average guy has even less chance of scoring tickets at the new rink. Unless you really want to splurge on a night out.

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10-14-2012, 08:30 PM
  #36
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Those are good points about decreases to normal seating.

Edit: Didn't Montreal cram in a bunch of nosebleeds they could sell cheap or give away to school kids? I wonder why that is not being contemplated here.

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10-14-2012, 10:52 PM
  #37
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That article was interesting - why were all those rinks built in 2 years or less, but ours is projected for 3+ years? Is that just all the extras like winter garden and the exterior?

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10-14-2012, 11:34 PM
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That article was interesting - why were all those rinks built in 2 years or less, but ours is projected for 3+ years? Is that just all the extras like winter garden and the exterior?
Ours is only about 2 years as well. If they have shovels in the ground in spring 2013, it should be open opening day 2015. Just slightly over 2 years.

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10-14-2012, 11:49 PM
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Ours is only about 2 years as well. If they have shovels in the ground in spring 2013, it should be open opening day 2015. Just slightly over 2 years.
Really? That chart in the journal has it as 3 years.

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10-15-2012, 05:08 AM
  #40
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That article was interesting - why were all those rinks built in 2 years or less, but ours is projected for 3+ years? Is that just all the extras like winter garden and the exterior?
Without reading the article, maybe the length of the Edmonton winters has something to do with it?

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10-15-2012, 02:19 PM
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Has this been posted and discussed yet? It compares what we know about the Katz-City deal with five other arenas.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...son/index.html
I always forget how nasty Scotiabank Place looks. Despite the fact that it's only 16 years old it gives Rexall a run for it's money.

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10-15-2012, 03:00 PM
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Potential new lottery seen as Oilers solution

Do you think "Sports Select" is a good suggestion for public subsidy that the Katz Group can use?

http://www.inews880.com/news/edmonto...spx?ID=1790836

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10-15-2012, 03:03 PM
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I always forget how nasty Scotiabank Place looks. Despite the fact that it's only 16 years old it gives Rexall a run for it's money.

Of the five I feel MTS and Nationwide are the best designs for buildings that are part of a district. They are engaged with their surroundings. They do not present blank walls to pedestrians. They are human, as the gurus of urban development would call them.

Consul is OK due to amount of glass. Jobing.com has that problem of monumental blank walls.

Scotiabank Place is an excellent example of the UFO dropped in the middle of a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. Despite that, it did help spur development in its area.

I'm concerned a little about how engaging the DT arena will be, but these shots are from a high vantage point. For it to succeed it really needs to be the focal point for a thriving pedestrian district. I hope they have it or get it right.

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10-15-2012, 03:07 PM
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Potential new lottery seen as Oilers solution

Do you think "Sports Select" is a good suggestion for public subsidy that the Katz Group can use?

http://www.inews880.com/news/edmonto...spx?ID=1790836
Sure, but as I have been following this vegas style betting for the past year and a half or however long ago it came up, it's not really an answer.

As a gambler I don't know that I'd continue to have my sports select fund and then add a whole new fund with new money for my bettings. I problem take what I spend in a week now and spread it over the two.

So are you actually creating and new gambling revenue? Maybe, I'm not sure.

I guess they could look at pools and props and see how much money was spent on sports gambling as a result of two new added games a couple years ago.

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10-15-2012, 03:09 PM
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Sure, but as I have been following this vegas style betting for the past year and a half or however long ago it came up, it's not really an answer.

As a gambler I don't know that I'd continue to have my sports select fund and then add a whole new fund with new money for my bettings. I problem take what I spend in a week now and spread it over the two.

So are you actually creating and new gambling revenue? Maybe, I'm not sure.

I guess they could look at pools and props and see how much money was spent on sports gambling as a result of two new added games a couple years ago.
With this being said, without NHL I am gambling less than usual. So I'm actually curious across the board how much money they are losing in Canada because of no pro-line hockey.

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10-15-2012, 06:12 PM
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I might bet 10-20 a week on proline, but it's only on hockey.
Saving a good amount right now

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10-16-2012, 10:36 AM
  #47
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Have I missed something here has there been additional contact from Katz to the city on their outstanding issues? Is today not Mandel's deadline day to get the deal finalized??

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10-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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Have I missed something here has there been additional contact from Katz to the city on their outstanding issues? Is today not Mandel's deadline day to get the deal finalized??
Tomorrow 1:30. And no it's not a deadline to get things finalized. Deadline for Katz group to bring their concerns to council, although I don't know what exactly that all includes.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/10/1...-for-wednesday

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10-16-2012, 10:49 AM
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I might bet 10-20 a week on proline, but it's only on hockey.
Saving a good amount right now
I play about 40-50 on NHL, NFL anywhere from 10-60.

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10-16-2012, 10:51 AM
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Tomorrow 1:30. And no it's not a deadline to get things finalized. Deadline for Katz group to bring their concerns to council, although I don't know what exactly that all includes.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/10/1...-for-wednesday
Yes, I read that article right after I wrote this! Thank you!

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