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The Official New Arena Thread: Part 5

View Poll Results: Which Possible Perceptions Of Edmonton Based On The New Arena Matter To You?
Making Edmonton more of a tourist attraction 38 27.94%
Making Edmonton seem more business friendly 39 28.68%
Making Edmonton seem more modern 81 59.56%
Making Edmonton seem like it has more to offer than industry 56 41.18%
I don't give a damn what people outside of our city think, we pay the bills 18 13.24%
It's a hockey and entertainment arena, it won't change the city much/or at all 34 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-16-2012, 07:05 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
It was already pretty apparent that Katz was upset about the leaks and the character assassinations through the media.

Not really suprised he's unwilling to participate in the city's attempts at political posturing.
I dont think it's posturing. They said they had a deal last year until he came forward and said he needs more. Council gave administration firm guidelines on what they can agree to in negotiations and it's laid out in that framework they put forward last year. They were straightforward when they said if he wants more money in the deal he has to come forward and explain why he needs the money when their projections show him making lots on the deal. If he's unwilling to send anyone forward to state what more they need in this deal and why there projections are so different than the cities I dont see what the city is supposed to do.

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10-16-2012, 07:07 PM
  #77
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katz ain't comin' ...

http://www.630ched.com/news/edmonton...spx?ID=1792168

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10-16-2012, 07:21 PM
  #78
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Now, I hope the City just builds it themselves. Katz will lose a lot of revenue, but maybe the cluster**** that this is can just go away.
Completely agree.

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10-16-2012, 07:26 PM
  #79
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Are people still sympathizing with Katz?

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10-16-2012, 07:26 PM
  #80
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It was already pretty apparent that Katz was upset about the leaks and the character assassinations through the media.

Not really suprised he's unwilling to participate in the city's attempts at political posturing.
exactly, this is not surprising in the least... i'm sure katz is sick and tired of dealing with council by now.... the nice thing about being in regina is that i don't care where the oilers play out of, i can cheer for the markam oilers just as easily (or whatever the hell they call the team once katz sells them)

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10-16-2012, 07:28 PM
  #81
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Are people still sympathizing with Katz?
i don't "sympathize with him", but i do understand his concern over why other cities seem willing to do things that edmonton is not willing to do ... fair enough though, the council is able to do whatever they want after all, just don't be surprised when katz doesn't want any part of it

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10-16-2012, 07:31 PM
  #82
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Another question: have they ever discussed doing some kind of special levy on the outlying communities? Is it unreasonable to ask the citizens of St. Albert, Sh Park, Beaumont, etc., to contribute as well?
That would have to go to the Capital Region Board and it never has. However, some of the smaller rural municipalities have expressed the concern that they might be asked to contribute.

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10-16-2012, 07:31 PM
  #83
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This was inevitable. Mandel is either a terrible negotiator, or has something in his back pocket. If he does not have the latter, he really painted himself into a corner with the deadline.

From a psychological perspective, Katz is the type of guy who needs to feel like he completely won a deal. I have dealt with people like this before, and if you can't do a deal that makes them feel like they won, it is a waste of time even negotiating.

Now, Mandel either needs to go back on his threat, which will make him look terrible, or he has another plan. No way this ends here. I would love to see Northlands get 100% funding and build the building now.

Edit: As a person who has been an Oiler fan since they entered the league, and as a guy who loves the team and is so excited about its future, I can only hope that Katz either sells it, or leaves with it. I just can not support anything run by this guy. I will seriously not invest one penny into the team unless he changes his approach. That is coming from a season ticket holder.


Last edited by oilphan: 10-16-2012 at 07:42 PM.
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10-16-2012, 07:48 PM
  #84
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unfortunately, Oiler fans get to be double aggravated...no deal on the lockout ending and no deal on a new arena and district.

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10-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #85
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Outsider point of view... But I'm not impressed with Katz at all. It's not like he doesn't already have a sweet deal. Why ask for more? Why be so stubborn? Why air all the dirty laundry in the media? Dude has draining public support, and looking like a dick in the media isn't going to help his plea.

Public money, to some extent, needs to be used for every large scale project like this. But when you have your hand in the tax payer wallet already, don't complain.

If the deal means so much to you, be a man and get it done. Don't whine about it.

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10-16-2012, 08:07 PM
  #86
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i don't "sympathize with him", but i do understand his concern over why other cities seem willing to do things that edmonton is not willing to do ... fair enough though, the council is able to do whatever they want after all, just don't be surprised when katz doesn't want any part of it
If you want to talk about which sides is unwilling I think it begins with the fact that Katz is bushleague enough to refuse to even speak to council. Also look at what the city was willing to do with the ACC or new arena in Seattle, deals which make the Katz proposal look like a total gift.

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10-16-2012, 08:09 PM
  #87
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i don't "sympathize with him", but i do understand his concern over why other cities seem willing to do things that edmonton is not willing to do ...
You mean other cities allow tax money to fund the majority of legacy projects such as those by Sir Daryl? Please let me know which ones those are, so I don't make the mistake of investing in property, like I feel I did in this one.

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10-16-2012, 08:10 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
I dont think it's posturing. They said they had a deal last year until he came forward and said he needs more. Council gave administration firm guidelines on what they can agree to in negotiations and it's laid out in that framework they put forward last year. They were straightforward when they said if he wants more money in the deal he has to come forward and explain why he needs the money when their projections show him making lots on the deal. If he's unwilling to send anyone forward to state what more they need in this deal and why there projections are so different than the cities I dont see what the city is supposed to do.
It's exceptionally unlikely that the city that has been negotiating with the Katz group for the better part of 3 years on a major deal has suddenly become clueless to what he wants.

It's also ridiculous to suggest that the only way to obtain this information is to drag someone who wants nothing to do with the media, kicking and screaming into the public forum with demands that he explain himself.

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10-16-2012, 08:12 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by oilphan View Post
This was inevitable. Mandel is either a terrible negotiator, or has something in his back pocket. If he does not have the latter, he really painted himself into a corner with the deadline.

From a psychological perspective, Katz is the type of guy who needs to feel like he completely won a deal. I have dealt with people like this before, and if you can't do a deal that makes them feel like they won, it is a waste of time even negotiating.

Now, Mandel either needs to go back on his threat, which will make him look terrible, or he has another plan. No way this ends here. I would love to see Northlands get 100% funding and build the building now.

Edit: As a person who has been an Oiler fan since they entered the league, and as a guy who loves the team and is so excited about its future, I can only hope that Katz either sells it, or leaves with it. I just can not support anything run by this guy. I will seriously not invest one penny into the team unless he changes his approach. That is coming from a season ticket holder.

You'd be fine with renovating the garbage dump that is Northlands/Rexall for $250 million?

Who pays for that? The taxpayer entirely?

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10-16-2012, 08:12 PM
  #90
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It's also ridiculous to suggest that the only way to obtain this information is to drag someone who wants nothing to do with the media, kicking and screaming into the public forum with demands that he explain himself.
It's not rediculous at all. If Sir Daryl insists that we pay for the vast majority of his legacy project, he damn well better get in the spotlight and explain why we should pay his bills for him. And that explanaion had better be a good one.

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10-16-2012, 08:13 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
You mean other cities allow tax money to fund the majority of legacy projects such as those by Sir Daryl? Please let me know which ones those are, so I don't make the mistake of investing in property, like I feel I did in this one.
1) You don't know what a "legacy project" is.
2) Basically every City in the free world, then?
3) Please don't invest in Edmonton property. The more rural-minded people that stay away, the better.

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10-16-2012, 08:17 PM
  #92
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It's exceptionally unlikely that the city that has been negotiating with the Katz group for the better part of 3 years on a major deal has suddenly become clueless to what he wants.
Katz's demands from three years ago aren't the same as the ones he has today. Has Katz even talked to the city since he last changed his demands?

Quote:
It's also ridiculous to suggest that the only way to obtain this information is to drag someone who wants nothing to do with the media, kicking and screaming into the public forum with demands that he explain himself.
If Katz doesn't want to appear in public he probably shouldn't be trying to acquire public dollars.

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10-16-2012, 08:23 PM
  #93
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1) You don't know what a "legacy project" is.
2) Basically every City in the free world, then?
3) Please don't invest in Edmonton property. The more rural-minded people that stay away, the better.
1) When a rich spoiled brat of a billionaire wants taxpayers to pony up half a billion dollars for an arena because he wants to be recognized as the savior of the Oilers franchise in Edmonton, that is a legacy project.

2) No, not all cities in the free world will gouge their citizens for a half billion dollars for a Sir Daryl-type legacy arena project, and thank goodness for that.

3) If you think I'm rural minded for wanting him to foot the majority of the bill for this legacy arena project, then the majority of Edmontonians are also rural-minded as well, based on your own logic.


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10-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #94
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i don't "sympathize with him", but i do understand his concern over why other cities seem willing to do things that edmonton is not willing to do ... fair enough though, the council is able to do whatever they want after all, just don't be surprised when katz doesn't want any part of it
What are other cities doing that Edmonton isn't willing to? They did sign off of a pretty generous deal for Katz back in July. If he's now deciding he needs more, then the city has every right to ask why, before just accepting. Frankly I am getting pissed at Katz. He's really trying to bend the city over a barrel, imo. Perhaps I am just not as informed on the issue as some, but that is how I see it.

At this point, I'm on board with the city building the arena itself and even involving Northlands. I highly doubt the NHL would allow Katz to move the Oilers from Edmonton without first trying to sell to another owner willing to stay. The NHL simply makes more revenue with the Oilers in Edmonton. And if he's being forced to sell, we may as well just have the city buy them. They are profitable at 30th place in a 38 yo building. They should be moreso with this young exciting team playing in a fancy new arena. If the city is fronting the bill for the arena anyways, they may as well just buy the team too and make their money back faster with arena revenues added to the tax benefits.

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10-16-2012, 08:32 PM
  #95
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Katz cements himself as a complete ******- bag.

Explain what you want mr Katz.

"In public? NOOOOOOO"

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10-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #96
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1) When a rich spoiled brat of a billionaire wants taxpayers to pony up half a billion dollars for an arena because he wants to be recognized as the savior of the Oilers franchise in Edmonton, that is a legacy project.
Your take on things and reality don't co-exist.

Quote:
2) No, not all cities in the free world will gouge their citizens for a half billion dollars for a Daryl-type legacy arena project.
Every major City at one point or another enters into public-private partnerships or subsidies to build luxury sports and entertainment venues.

Those who don't have partners fund it entirely with public money. Hey, it might not be at the billionaire's benefit, but it sure as hell isn't at the publics either.

Quote:
3) If you think I'm rural minded for wanting him to foot the majority of the bill for this legacy arena project, then the majority of Edmontonians are also rural-minded as well.
The majority of Edmontonians are well behind the current framework. You are not in the majority, you're in the vocal minority who throw petty insults like "Sir Daryl" instead of making intelligent arguments about the value of the deal or the actions of the parties.

God knows there's real criticism to be levied against the Katz Group, but you're not even close to making those arguments. You're throwing fatuous rhetoric around like it's going out of style.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 10-16-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: clean up
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10-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #97
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Your take on things and reality don't co-exist.



Every major City at one point or another enters into public-private partnerships or subsidies to build luxury sports and entertainment venues.

Those who don't have partners fund it entirely with public money. Hey, it might not be at the billionaire's benefit, but it sure as hell isn't at the publics either.



The majority of Edmontonians are well behind the current framework. You are not in the majority, you're in the vocal minority who feel like throwing petty insults like "Sir Daryl" than make quantative arguments about the value of the deal.

God knows there's real criticism to be levied against the Katz Group, but you're not even close to making those arguments. You're throwing fatuous rhetoric around like it's going out of style.
I'm not again private-public funding, but the private needs to fund the majority of this project. He is a very rich man, and if he wants an arena of this grandure, he can pay for most of it himself. That is not unreasonable to ask. And you have it wrong buddy. Every single person I know in Edmonton is not very pleased with the possibility of spending a half-billion dollars of taxpayers money. Why should they be? Now if Sir Katz the spoiled billionaire would become a reasonable man and ask for 20 or 25 percent taxpayers money going towards this project, then sure, I can live with that.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 10-16-2012 at 11:04 PM. Reason: clean up
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10-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #98
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Good ,why should he come

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10-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Katz cements himself as a complete ******- bag.

Explain what you want mr Katz.

"In public? NOOOOOOO"
Why he said he was sorry and the council was also wrong for sending info was not meant .The letter was not suppose to be public.

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10-16-2012, 08:50 PM
  #100
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Katz's demands from three years ago aren't the same as the ones he has today. Has Katz even talked to the city since he last changed his demands?



If Katz doesn't want to appear in public he probably shouldn't be trying to acquire public dollars.


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