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The Official New Arena Thread: Part 5

View Poll Results: Which Possible Perceptions Of Edmonton Based On The New Arena Matter To You?
Making Edmonton more of a tourist attraction 38 27.94%
Making Edmonton seem more business friendly 39 28.68%
Making Edmonton seem more modern 81 59.56%
Making Edmonton seem like it has more to offer than industry 56 41.18%
I don't give a damn what people outside of our city think, we pay the bills 18 13.24%
It's a hockey and entertainment arena, it won't change the city much/or at all 34 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:50 PM
  #101
I am the Liquor
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Your take on things and reality don't co-exist.



Every major City at one point or another enters into public-private partnerships or subsidies to build luxury sports and entertainment venues.

Those who don't have partners fund it entirely with public money. Hey, it might not be at the billionaire's benefit, but it sure as hell isn't at the publics either.



The majority of Edmontonians are well behind the current framework. You are not in the majority, you're in the vocal minority who throw petty insults like "Sir Daryl" instead of making intelligent arguments about the value of the deal or the actions of the parties.

God knows there's real criticism to be levied against the Katz Group, but you're not even close to making those arguments. You're throwing fatuous rhetoric around like it's going out of style.
And youre reduced to calling people names again.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 10-16-2012 at 11:05 PM. Reason: clean up
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Old
10-16-2012, 08:51 PM
  #102
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Katz's demands from three years ago aren't the same as the ones he has today. Has Katz even talked to the city since he last changed his demands?
Doubt it. In this current age of communication, it's probably still in the mail.

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If Katz doesn't want to appear in public he probably shouldn't be trying to acquire public dollars.
That wasn't my point.

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10-16-2012, 08:53 PM
  #103
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Why he said he was sorry and the council was also wrong for sending info was not meant .The letter was not suppose to be public.
What does this guy got to hide? If he's using our dollars then we should know.


I'm tired of Katz literally being the dark knight in the shadows.

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10-16-2012, 09:05 PM
  #104
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Hmmm...I wonder if tomorrow is indeed the day that this whole deal dies. Despite all the dragging out, it seems rather sudden, strangely enough.

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10-16-2012, 09:12 PM
  #105
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Hmmm...I wonder if tomorrow is indeed the day that this whole deal dies. Despite all the dragging out, it seems rather sudden, strangely enough.
It's the Edmonton way. This city has a long and erm, storied history with "drop dead dates" and big corporations high-tailing it out of Dodge.

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10-16-2012, 09:15 PM
  #106
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I understand Mandel's frustration regarding how this has dragged out, but this particular "drop-dead" date doesn't make any sense. Both parties - the city and the Katz Group - have invested far too much into this to let it die now. It's wasteful and irresponsible.

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10-16-2012, 09:15 PM
  #107
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Hmmm...I wonder if tomorrow is indeed the day that this whole deal dies. Despite all the dragging out, it seems rather sudden, strangely enough.
It is going to a day like anyother .Just because Katz does not show up does not mean the deal is deal get off your high horse.

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10-16-2012, 09:17 PM
  #108
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It is going to a day like anyother .Just because Katz does not show up does not mean the deal is deal get off your high horse.
We'll see tomorrow whether Mandel's drop-dead date was a bluff or not.

Personally, I'm beyond tired of the bluffing and posturing from both sides.

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10-16-2012, 09:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
It's the Edmonton way. This city has a long and erm, storied history with "drop dead dates" and big corporations high-tailing it out of Dodge.
HOJU4 stop whinning ,I know you do this on sportsnet.ca all the time.nothing bad is going to happen.

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10-16-2012, 09:18 PM
  #110
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It is going to a day like anyother .Just because Katz does not show up does not mean the deal is deal get off your high horse.
What "high horse"? I don't even understand wtf you're talking about.

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10-16-2012, 09:19 PM
  #111
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HOJU4 stop whinning ,I know you do this on sportsnet.ca all the time.nothing bad is going to happen.

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10-16-2012, 09:30 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I understand Mandel's frustration regarding how this has dragged out, but this particular "drop-dead" date doesn't make any sense. Both parties - the city and the Katz Group - have invested far too much into this to let it die now. It's wasteful and irresponsible.
I thought that the apology Katz made in the paper would've been a good time for everyone to back down and reset things, but I guess not...

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10-16-2012, 09:42 PM
  #113
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I thought that the apology Katz made in the paper would've been a good time for everyone to back down and reset things, but I guess not...
Well, based on his latest letter, Katz and The Katz Group don't seem to be in "Omg, we gotta get it finalized right now!" mode anymore. It's the city that seems to have taken that stance.

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10-16-2012, 10:34 PM
  #114
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Note that it didn't have to be Katz himself - he could have sent Black or LaForge or someone else in the organization to clarify things and be SEEN to be willing to come out and show some good faith.

At this point it seems like the City is already pretty much on the hook for the whole building anyway...esp. with the new demand for the extra $6M/yr to run the building. $6M/yr from Katz for 'mortgage', less $2.5M/yr from City for advertising/sponsorship (which was already an iffy thing)...what else am I missing? Naming rights, etc.

It's just amazing that this guy doesn't know what it's like to ask for public money - he's supposedly a long-time Edmontonian, so he should know what the public reaction was to Pocklingon't demands, for starters. And does no one in his company know anything about PR? Just amazing...

If negotiations with Administration weren't going very well, then wouldn't it be time to shake things up a bit and try the council-appearance thing? (again, wouldn't have to be Daryl himself)

Crazy stuff...

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10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #115
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You'd be fine with renovating the garbage dump that is Northlands/Rexall for $250 million?

Who pays for that? The taxpayer entirely?
Not renovating. Building from scratch. I am fine with the taxpayers paying if the taxpayers keep the profits. Katz wants the taxpayers to pay but him keep the profits.

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10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #116
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Just get this ****ing thing built already. If you have to take out the Winter Garden to save another $100 M, then so be it!

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10-16-2012, 11:06 PM
  #117
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When are Mandel's and council's terms up?

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10-16-2012, 11:09 PM
  #118
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When are Mandel's and council's terms up?
Not for over a year. Why this question?

No local mayoral candidate would be easier to deal with than Mandel on this issue.

Indeed Mandel is the only respective leader that is considering it. Neither the provincial, or Federal Govt's give this the time of day.

Mandel is the only reason this public funded downtown arena had any hope in hell.

If you've followed this was a very pro arena council that Katz has managed to fumble.

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10-16-2012, 11:13 PM
  #119
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Not for over a year. Why this question?

No local mayoral candidate would be easier to deal with than Mandel on this issue.

Indeed Mandel is the only respective leader that is considering it. Neither the provincial, or Federal Govt's give this the time of day.

Mandel is the only reason this public funded downtown arena had any hope in hell.
I know little about Albertan or Canadian politics, however my question was in the event of a stalemate how long before Katz could have a new council and/or mayor to deal with. I really don't see why the province couldn't have chipped in at least $100 million, instead it leaves the city and Katz in a blood bath.

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10-16-2012, 11:18 PM
  #120
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its unbelievable that edmonton doesnt see this building as a good thing. even if they had to pay the entire bill its a good thing for the city. but i guess theres still some concil that arnt thinking about whats good for the city but instead thinking for their paychecks.

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10-16-2012, 11:24 PM
  #121
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I know little about Albertan or Canadian politics, however my question was in the event of a stalemate how long before Katz could have a new council and/or mayor to deal with. I really don't see why the province couldn't have chipped in at least $100 million, instead it leaves the city and Katz in a blood bath.
The provincial opposition party would have a field day if the fiscal conservatives opted to fund a hockey arena. The PC's no longer have carte blanche in this province nor do they ever see it a win deal to support many Edmonton endeavors. Two coalitions, the rural vote, and the Calgary vote, love it when Edmonton gets coal in their stockings.

Thats the simplest version.

But in anycase that politics..

In anycase part 2 Katz has created his own impasse.

Frankly I call it cold feet but Katz not ready to admit to that.

Read between the lines though and in the letter today Katz indicates that the new demands have been a result of revenue and expense projections he had done.

Yet strangely this is not being produced as an addendum and is not being made available to council, or the public. This would seem to be a large omission. There could be no foreseeable reason not to release the results of the latest consultant report except if they don't indicate that which Katz is trying to tell us they indicate.

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10-16-2012, 11:38 PM
  #122
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Yet strangely this is not being produced as an addendum and is not being made available to council, or the public. This would seem to be a large omission. There could be no foreseeable reason not to release the results of the latest consultant report except if they don't indicate that which Katz is trying to tell us they indicate.
Exactly.

He says his costs are going to be more than expected, show the numbers.

He says the CRL is going to generate twice what the city is estimating, show the numbers.

He doesnt have to show up himself, hire a marketing firm for all I care but make your case in public if you have one, otherwise this deal looks dead and nobody can seriously blame the city after his latest Jekyll and Hyde performance. Oops I'm in Seattle, watch out I might be moving. Sorry about that, didnt mean it negotiations are going good. Negotiations are going bad it's all their fault. Is this guy bi-polar or what? Maybe he'll be taking in an Alouettes or Argos game next.

Seriously I think the city should tell the administration to stop negotiations until he comes forward and says what he wants, of course that's basically what they already said.

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10-16-2012, 11:55 PM
  #123
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Is someone able to explain the animosity towards Northlands to me?

While I think municipal governments financing arenas isn't a great use of taxpayer money, I'm really starting to wonder why don't we just fund the entire project and have Northlands run the arena, considering the former deal with the KatzGroup sees the city financing most the project anyway. Would Katz have grounds for a lawsuit if the city pulled out to build and operate the arena on their own?

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10-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #124
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Not renovating. Building from scratch. I am fine with the taxpayers paying if the taxpayers keep the profits. Katz wants the taxpayers to pay but him keep the profits.
I think I'm there, too. Katz's demands makes a completely publicly funded arena not only more palatable, but probably a better revenue generator. It's funny, but he has demanded himself out of the deal.

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10-17-2012, 12:04 AM
  #125
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You mean other cities allow tax money to fund the majority of legacy projects such as those by Sir Daryl? Please let me know which ones those are, so I don't make the mistake of investing in property, like I feel I did in this one.
lots of NHL teams in the league have tax money going to it, and *all* of the new arenas (other than ACC) were heavily funded by local government

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