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Would JVR have turned out better if he went the OHL route instead of USHL and NCAA?

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10-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #1
Krishna
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Would JVR have turned out better if he went the OHL route instead of USHL and NCAA?

thoughts?

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10-25-2012, 03:29 PM
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Haute Couturier
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It's hard to say how things would be different, but I will say I don't think he's a flop. I think the Flyers will regret that trade.

I do think he was wrong to ignore the Flyers advice. I also think he would have been better served with a year in the AHL instead of making the jump from college to the NHL.

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10-25-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
It's hard to say how things would be different, but I will say I don't think he's a flop. I think the Flyers will regret that trade.

I do think he was wrong to ignore the Flyers advice. I also think he would have been better served with a year in the AHL instead of making the jump from college to the NHL.
from the trade stand point it is one of those trades that can truely go any way. JvR could suck and Schenn develop into what he should, and vise versa or both. It is still worth it to make from both clubs POV.

Anyhoo, to the topic on hand, I definately beleive a year in the AHL would have been great for him. As for Juniors vs College, well if I was him idda hooked up with a stout JR program, but thats me

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10-25-2012, 04:21 PM
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First off, I'm an OHL fan so I'm probably biased.

JVR was drafted to Brampton, and would have played alongside Matt Duchene and Cody Hodgson on a team that went to the OHL Finals. Brampton's coach is extremely good, and while they play boring-as-**** style, JVR would have learned a two-way game in a quasi-professional setting, schedule, and training program.

Would it have made a difference? Impossible to say, but I can't imagine it would have hurt his hockey development.

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10-25-2012, 04:57 PM
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It was all part of the risks of drafting him since I was under the impression that they knew he was committed to play college when he was drafted so they knew he was going to take at least 2 years before getting to the AHL/NHL. He probably would have been better served playing in the OHL or AHL rather than in a college setting, but they were okay with that and probably figured he could make the adjustments as the season progressed. We won't truly know how his development goes until another couple of seasons pass and if he stays healthy.

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10-25-2012, 05:46 PM
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Probably. The CHL is indisputably better for development than US college.

But as has been stated, it's the risk they took. JVR was dead set on going to college for 2 years.

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10-25-2012, 05:49 PM
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I don't think it's as much of a CHL vs. NCAA thing as much as it's an issue of the school that JVR went to. UNH is not known as having a strong hockey program and developing quality NHL players. From what I know, JVR had several schools offer scholarships, including Boston College, BU, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Instead, he went to a school where he would be given a top line spot right away and was very close to home. I don't have a problem with someone wanting to be close to hom. The problem I have is that is that UNH let JVR get away with bad habits, habits which carried over to the NHL. If he would have gone to a school with a reputable hockey program, I honestly don't think he gets moved. Instead, UNH stunted his development and his career paid for it as a result

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10-25-2012, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't think it's as much of a CHL vs. NCAA thing as much as it's an issue of the school that JVR went to. UNH is not known as having a strong hockey program and developing quality NHL players. From what I know, JVR had several schools offer scholarships, including Boston College, BU, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Instead, he went to a school where he would be given a top line spot right away and was very close to home. I don't have a problem with someone wanting to be close to hom. The problem I have is that is that UNH let JVR get away with bad habits, habits which carried over to the NHL. If he would have gone to a school with a reputable hockey program, I honestly don't think he gets moved. Instead, UNH stunted his development and his career paid for it as a result
going to another school would of better for his development? that is just a matter of opinion. As far as the last part of your post? its complete ********.

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10-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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I think this is something that you can't really make a definitive argument for on either side. There is nothing really to point to that you can hang your hat on other than 100% pure speculation and opinion. The only real argument I see is just that historically the OHL has produced more top flight players than the NCAA, but that can very easily be because of the fact that more players go that route.

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10-25-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
going to another school would of better for his development? that is just a matter of opinion. As far as the last part of your post? its complete ********.
*looks at post*

*looks at location*

Hmmm. Do I sense a UNH fan?

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10-25-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
*looks at post*

*looks at location*

Hmmm. Do I sense a UNH fan?
you would be correct.
I am not going to deny that UNH isnt a elite college hockey school. But I am not going to listen to anyone trash the way the school i support deals with the young players in their program. Its crap.

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10-25-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
going to another school would of better for his development? that is just a matter of opinion. As far as the last part of your post? its complete ********.
Say what you want, but the facts can't be denied that UNH is not a great hockey program. When compared to other schools in the Hockey East, UNH has produced Daniel Winnik, Ty Conklin, Jamie Fritsch and JVR as legitimate NHL hockey players. If JVR went to BU or Boston College or Wisconsin or Michigan or Minnesota, he would have been better off. There's a reason why those colleges have won the Frozen Four tournament. New Hampshire has been to the finals twice and have NEVER won. Just look at Boston College or BU and see what their history is. There's a reason why they have elite hockey programs.

And yes, JVR most certainly did develop bad habits during his time at UNH. He earned a reputation for not giving it his all at that time and it certainly came up during the 2009 WJC tournament. I'm willing to bet that if he did go to one of those other schools where he would have had to earn his ice time, he would have been a much better and much more complete player and there would have been no questions about his heart or effort.

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10-25-2012, 08:09 PM
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10-25-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
First off, I'm an OHL fan so I'm probably biased.

JVR was drafted to Brampton, and would have played alongside Matt Duchene and Cody Hodgson on a team that went to the OHL Finals. Brampton's coach is extremely good, and while they play boring-as-**** style, JVR would have learned a two-way game in a quasi-professional setting, schedule, and training program.

Would it have made a difference? Impossible to say, but I can't imagine it would have hurt his hockey development.
I agree with you 100%

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10-25-2012, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
And yes, JVR most certainly did develop bad habits during his time at UNH. He earned a reputation for not giving it his all at that time and it certainly came up during the 2009 WJC tournament. I'm willing to bet that if he did go to one of those other schools where he would have had to earn his ice time, he would have been a much better and much more complete player and there would have been no questions about his heart or effort.
Bad habits? like what? he was over a PPG player in college.
Mike Radja and Jerry Pollastrone were his linemates in his freshman year
Mike Sislo and Peter Leblanc in his sophmore year along with Bobby Butler at times.
UNH for pretty much the time he was there was a one line team. No matter what level of hockey you are on, if you are a one line team chances are you are going to see the opposition best defense matchups.
Dick Umile doesnt give ice time to players who dont deserve it. He is one of the best coaches around. He wasnt handed anything regarding playing time.

Would of he been a better player if he had gone to the OHL? probably.

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10-25-2012, 09:37 PM
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JVR with Hodgson and Duchene on a team certainly would have helped.

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10-25-2012, 10:26 PM
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Doesn't UNH play on bigger ice or am I making stuff up?

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10-25-2012, 10:35 PM
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RJ8812
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no. We always over rated JVR's potential

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10-26-2012, 12:31 AM
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usahockey22flyers
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James' decision in going to UNH wasn't about hockey, it was the thought of life after hockey that made him want to do two years in college.

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10-26-2012, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
James' decision in going to UNH wasn't about hockey, it was the thought of life after hockey that made him want to do two years in college.
I actually find that logic quite weird. Two years in college isn't much, especially considering the first year is basically a throw away year, and you don't get deep into the specifics of whatever you're studying in second year, either (especially in the US/Canada). If he was to actually get a degree, that'd be different, although I guess he can always just finish whatever he started. Still, I'd wager he didn't get much education in those two years. But that's just personal opinion, of course.

What's also personal opinion is that, yes, he would have turned out better, but I don't know by how much. It's little more than a gut feeling based on how the CHL schedule and life is more akin to playing in professional men's leagues. But no one can really say with any certainty what would've happened in his particular case.

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10-26-2012, 06:40 AM
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I actually find that logic quite weird. Two years in college isn't much, especially considering the first year is basically a throw away year, and you don't get deep into the specifics of whatever you're studying in second year, either (especially in the US/Canada). If he was to actually get a degree, that'd be different, although I guess he can always just finish whatever he started. Still, I'd wager he didn't get much education in those two years. But that's just personal opinion, of course.

What's also personal opinion is that, yes, he would have turned out better, but I don't know by how much. It's little more than a gut feeling based on how the CHL schedule and life is more akin to playing in professional men's leagues. But no one can really say with any certainty what would've happened in his particular case.
I'm sure he's still going to get his degree. Just because he left after 2 years, doesnt mean he can't take classes in order to finish his degree

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10-26-2012, 06:44 AM
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Playing in the OHL would have definitely helped him since they play more cames, most of which are concentrated. How much travelling is there in NCAA? In the OHL he would have still gone to school and also would have had a schedule that was more like the NHL.

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10-26-2012, 08:03 AM
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Last I checked JVR was a Maple Leaf....

We needed/need Schenn. Both lack the same thing consistency.

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10-26-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Say what you want, but the facts can't be denied that UNH is not a great hockey program. When compared to other schools in the Hockey East, UNH has produced Daniel Winnik, Ty Conklin, Jamie Fritsch and JVR as legitimate NHL hockey players. If JVR went to BU or Boston College or Wisconsin or Michigan or Minnesota, he would have been better off. There's a reason why those colleges have won the Frozen Four tournament. New Hampshire has been to the finals twice and have NEVER won. Just look at Boston College or BU and see what their history is. There's a reason why they have elite hockey programs.

And yes, JVR most certainly did develop bad habits during his time at UNH. He earned a reputation for not giving it his all at that time and it certainly came up during the 2009 WJC tournament. I'm willing to bet that if he did go to one of those other schools where he would have had to earn his ice time, he would have been a much better and much more complete player and there would have been no questions about his heart or effort.
I'd like to take this time to plug my alma mater, a great hockey program:

Miami Redhawks in the NHL

Kevyn Adams
Alec Martinez
Dan Boyle
Andy Greene
Ryan Jones
Tommy Wingels
Carter Camper
Andy Miele

Many more prospects.

3 of those guys have lifted the cup. I don't know if your point works.

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10-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Playing in the OHL would have definitely helped him since they play more cames, most of which are concentrated. How much travelling is there in NCAA? In the OHL he would have still gone to school and also would have had a schedule that was more like the NHL.
Yeah, I think so. Given his alleged pedigree, he should have been able to take on the OHL, which would force him to raise his level of play. The sooner your body is able to memorize and gain familiarity with stronger opponents, usually you're better off for it if you're ready, which I don't see any reason he wouldn't be.

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