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Would We be a better team with Luongo or Hossa

View Poll Results: Would We be a better team with Luongo or Hossa
Luongo 5 9.80%
Hossa 46 90.20%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-14-2012, 02:55 AM
  #1
UsernameWasTaken
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Would We be a better team with Luongo or Hossa

Pulled this topic from the Polls board. Excluding Hawks/Van fans - the HFBoards brain trust has decided so far (by a narrow margin) that we'd be better w/ Luongo.

Me? Having Luongo at the expense of Hoss =

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:17 AM
  #2
digdug41982
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Hossa is the complete player,
You don't trade guys like that.

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Old
10-14-2012, 05:57 AM
  #3
pvr
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Flawed concept. A better frame for the question is whether the difference between Luongo and Crawford is greater than the worth of Hossa over the course of 82 games, disregarding Luongo's (real or perceived) lack of playoff success.

Last year Crawford played 57 games, and Luongo 55. Let's say each plays 55 games, and Crawford doesn't improve and Luongo doesn't decline. Using last years' stats, normalizing to 55 games, using their 2011-2012 GAA's of 2.72 (Crawford) and 2.41 (Luongo), the differece in goals allowed was 13.5 in Luongo's favor. That's about one goal every four games...IF Crawford plays as poorly as he did last year. Is Hossa worth 1 goal every 4 games over his replacement, disregarding the other 25 games that Hossa plays and Luongo doesn't??

Now regarding Hossa, perhaps his replacement scores maybe (if we're lucky) 10 less goals over the same 55 games, and plays equally well (doubtful) in all other facets of the game (PK etc...), then maybe it's a wash in goals for/goals against. However, we still get Hossa playing the other 25 games that Luongo isn't in the net.

IMO, the overall positives for Hossa far outweigh any positive gain that Luongo MIGHT give us IF both he and Crawford play nearly the same as they did last year.

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Old
10-14-2012, 06:32 AM
  #4
Bubba88
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Hossa makes the Hawks a better team without any doubt. Hossa is Top5 at his position. Hossa was the 2nd best scorer in the Western Conf last year while playing great D too.

You all know that I'm one of the Crawford doubters and that I would love to get goaltending upgrade, but Crawford gets underrated in a way that it became laughable. The difference between Crawford and Luongo isn't worth giving up Hossa.
In addition to that, we could get a much better return for Hossa than Luongo.

All I know... if Crawford plays like he did in 10-11 goaltending will not be a problem for us. Goaltending in general wasn't the big problem we've had. It was bad goaltending at the wrong timing. Crawford had some good/great saves too and kept us in games until he let in a goal he should have had. This happened about 20-25 times last year. Add those goals as saves to his numbers and he would be right in the middle and nobody would question him.

Bowman is also known for staying patient, don't take many risks. He will not make a deal where the Hawks give up the best player and open a hole to fill another. He is a believer in going cheap in goal. He wants to have a stacked D, be strong in the middle and forwards in general. Last position he goes and gives up a lot is goaltending.
He could have added Vokoun in 09/10. There were rumors that the deal was close and it was his decision to go with Niemi/Huet. He was right and kept our great forward depth over Vokoun. (rumor had Brouwer ++ as part of the deal)

Long answer in short... Hossa makes the Hawks way better than Luongo would. I don't care what HF says, I think Hawks Fans know it better what they really need and should do - biased or not


don't forget - we have won with Hossa, he fits the team and we know him. Luongo might do this or that. Hossa DOES and Hossa wanted to play for us

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Old
10-14-2012, 09:45 AM
  #5
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Hossa by a wide margin for me.

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Old
10-14-2012, 10:11 AM
  #6
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Hossa. My hatred for the canucks will never tell me otherwise.

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Old
10-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvr View Post
Flawed concept. A better frame for the question is whether the difference between Luongo and Crawford is greater than the worth of Hossa over the course of 82 games, disregarding Luongo's (real or perceived) lack of playoff success.

Last year Crawford played 57 games, and Luongo 55. Let's say each plays 55 games, and Crawford doesn't improve and Luongo doesn't decline. Using last years' stats, normalizing to 55 games, using their 2011-2012 GAA's of 2.72 (Crawford) and 2.41 (Luongo), the differece in goals allowed was 13.5 in Luongo's favor. That's about one goal every four games...IF Crawford plays as poorly as he did last year. Is Hossa worth 1 goal every 4 games over his replacement, disregarding the other 25 games that Hossa plays and Luongo doesn't??

Now regarding Hossa, perhaps his replacement scores maybe (if we're lucky) 10 less goals over the same 55 games, and plays equally well (doubtful) in all other facets of the game (PK etc...), then maybe it's a wash in goals for/goals against. However, we still get Hossa playing the other 25 games that Luongo isn't in the net.

IMO, the overall positives for Hossa far outweigh any positive gain that Luongo MIGHT give us IF both he and Crawford play nearly the same as they did last year.
and you left out the contracts.

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Old
10-14-2012, 11:12 AM
  #8
Chris Hansen
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I'd be surprised if any less than 90% agree that the answer here is Hossa.

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Old
10-14-2012, 11:16 AM
  #9
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Hossa easily

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Old
10-14-2012, 12:13 PM
  #10
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Dear Mr. Canucks Fan who has voted Luongo... tell us why we would be better with Luongo than with Hossa please

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Old
10-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #11
Kaner Coffee
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This is an absurd question.

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Old
10-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #12
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Neither usually show up in the playoffs, but I love Hossa. He is a beast and can do it all. He does so many unique things. Luongo is just a clown.

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Old
10-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #13
pvr
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
and you left out the contracts.
Silly me. The absurd contract that Luongo has only makes it more lopsided in favor of Hossa.

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:49 PM
  #14
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in what way is Hossas contract better than Luongos? They are almost similar other than the ****ing NTC Luu has until 2018

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10-14-2012, 07:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
in what way is Hossas contract better than Luongos? They are almost similar other than the ****ing NTC Luu has until 2018
Well who is playing at a higher level...in addition to the NTC ?

Lu is on the downslide, and basically lost his job to a 26 year old backup...

Yea, I know all about how "good" Schneider is .... yet he was drafted in 2004 and has started 50 games ??? Let him carry a team for a couple of seasons and I will start to believe he is the real deal...

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Old
10-15-2012, 05:38 AM
  #16
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Luongo after all is still a Top10 goalie...


their contracts are similar and none of those contracts is better or worse

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Old
10-15-2012, 01:08 PM
  #17
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As an outsider looking in: I personally fear Hossa more than Luongo. SO, give us Hossa and get Luongo please!

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10-15-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Luongo after all is still a Top10 goalie...


their contracts are similar and none of those contracts is better or worse
Top ten .... I think his slow starts and less than stellar playoff performances show he is sliding. His contract is just icing on the cake and I can't see how a team would want to take him on.

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Old
10-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbridledid View Post
Well who is playing at a higher level...in addition to the NTC ?

Lu is on the downslide, and basically lost his job to a 26 year old backup...

Yea, I know all about how "good" Schneider is .... yet he was drafted in 2004 and has started 50 games ??? Let him carry a team for a couple of seasons and I will start to believe he is the real deal...
Don't have a comment on your guys' poll but....

Maybe the bolded has to do with the fact that we got Luongo in 2006 hence we were able to slowly brining Schneider along... you know properly developing a goalie.

Would it have been better for Schneider to go through the Columbus Blue Jackets' Steve Mason development path? You know the one which has pretty much ruined the kids confidence & made him a sieve.

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10-15-2012, 07:28 PM
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Just for the record, the difference between Luongo or Crawford in net over the course of last season would have been at least 24 goals, transposing Luongo's sv% to the amount of shots Crawford faced(and that's excluding rebound control, etc). Probably more, as Chicago also has the best top pairing in the league.

Also, if you compare the production of goalies over 35(Vokoun, Thomas, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Theodore, Hedberg, Roloson before last year) to forwards, ratio-wise goalies are much more likely to continue playing well than forwards.(Selanne, Whitney, MSL, Jagr, Doan...?) I'm not sure exactly how many there are, but as there are about 6 times as many forwards as goalies, I don't think it's unreasonable to say Luongo lasts longer at an elite level...Although when he does wear down, he will be much harder to place. He may still be able to be a decent backup, but most likely he will retire(or be threatened to be sent to the minors if he doesn't)

Although if the new CBA decides to make all retirement contracts count against the cap for their entire duration, both Hossa and Luongo will be messed over, although Luongo perhaps moreso.

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:24 PM
  #21
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Hossa, easily.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Just for the record, the difference between Luongo or Crawford in net over the course of last season would have been at least 24 goals, transposing Luongo's sv% to the amount of shots Crawford faced(and that's excluding rebound control, etc). Probably more, as Chicago also has the best top pairing in the league.
Hossa scored 29, and also prevented goals from being scored with his selke like defense. Our team defense is crap with him, imagine it without him? Having the best top pairing on paper only helps so much when your forwards cant properly defend. And we have all seen what happens to Luongo when the team breaks down defensively.

You can name all these goalies that play till late in their career, but I can name countless more that don't. And I'm not willing to gamble one of our top defensive and offensive forwards that Lu can take us to the promise land when he hasnt done it with a better team, and at a younger age.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:28 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Hossa scored 29, and also prevented goals from being scored with his selke like defense. Our team defense is crap with him, imagine it without him? Having the best top pairing on paper only helps so much when your forwards cant properly defend. And we have all seen what happens to Luongo when the team breaks down defensively.
Whoa, Hossa is good defensively, but I wouldn't call him selke-calibre. And Luongo hasn't done any worse when Kesler was out, and he literally has Selke-calibre defense. Part of the reason why your team defense is "crap" is because you have a lousy goalie who gives up bad rebounds as well as shots(which is why it would likely be more than 24 goals saved). Similar to Toronto, who has a decent defense on paper, but their goaltending makes it look much worse than it is.

Quote:
You can name all these goalies that play till late in their career, but I can name countless more that don't. And I'm not willing to gamble one of our top defensive and offensive forwards that Lu can take us to the promise land when he hasnt done it with a better team, and at a younger age.
I'm not saying Luongo is an ageless wonder. Simply pointing out that neither is Hossa, and that current trends have goaltenders continuing to be more effective than forwards at later ages. And if you'll hold his lack of a cup against him, you could do the same with Lundqvist, Rinne, and Price-while Luongo has gotten further than any of them.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:40 PM
  #24
Chris Hansen
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Hossa certainly is Selke-caliber, I'm a bit surprised there are people who still haven't realized it. Probably because he doesn't play center like HF's love children Datsyuk, Bergeron, Kesler, Toews, etc.

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Old
10-15-2012, 10:13 PM
  #25
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Saying Hossa is good defensively, but not selke like, ruins any cred you had.

Theres more to defense than letting in bad goals by the goalie, if you watched the Hawks, you would know what I am talking about. You may as well quit while you're behind.

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