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C Aleksander Barkov - Tampere Tappara, FEL (2013 Draft) - Part II

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:58 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
I believe all SM-Liiga contracts have an NHL clause in them, so that won't be a problem.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
That is very helpful to know. Thank you.

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11-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #327
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Not sure I agree with that. In 2001 and 2002 we saw lots of Finns go high in the draft (Mikko Koivu and Tuomo Ruutu 6th and 9th overall in 2001; Kari Lehtonen and Joni Pitkanen 2nd and 4th overall in 2002). There haven't been many Finns drafted high since then, but they haven't produced many good prospects since then either. In 2004 we saw Korpikoski, Nokelainen and Tukonen all go in the 11-19 range, and all busted except Korpikoski, but I wouldn't say that this draft turned GMs off Finnish prospects, there just haven't been a lot of strong Finnish prospects since. I mean, GMs are not going to take a weak prospect in the 1st round just to make sure that Finland produces a 1st round pick. Now that Finland has started producing solid prospects again, GMs have started to draft them reasonably high once more (Granlund 9th overall in 2010, Armia 16th overall in 2011, Teravainen and Maata 18th and 22nd overall in 2012, and soon to be Barkov, Ristolainen and Lehkonen in 2013).

I haven't seen Finnish prospects regularly go way lower than you'd expect based on their talent, as is so common with Russian prospects. In the years where Finns have not gone high in the draft, they've generally just not had any good prospects. When they do produce good prospects, they go about as high as they should. If Barkov is talented enough to go in the 2nd-6th overall range (and I think he is), then he'll go somewhere around 2nd-6th. I agree that his shot at 1st overall is quite slim, but only because MacKinnon is such a strong prospect, it'll be tough for anyone to unseat him.
Exactly. The lack of top round talent in Finnish circles isn't indicative of an "idea" that Finnish players aren't successful or elite type players. It's just part of the development cycle. Sometimes countries go through periods where the talent is thinner.

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11-17-2012, 02:25 AM
  #328
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NJD Director of scouting David Conte stated that Barkov has ice in his veins because of his calmness and decision making with the puck and seemed to get very impressed. Button says after yesterdays game that Barkov is serious contender for #1 overall and it is 3 horse race right now.

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11-17-2012, 03:30 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Not sure I agree with that. In 2001 and 2002 we saw lots of Finns go high in the draft (Mikko Koivu and Tuomo Ruutu 6th and 9th overall in 2001; Kari Lehtonen and Joni Pitkanen 2nd and 4th overall in 2002). There haven't been many Finns drafted high since then, but they haven't produced many good prospects since then either. In 2004 we saw Korpikoski, Nokelainen and Tukonen all go in the 11-19 range, and all busted except Korpikoski, but I wouldn't say that this draft turned GMs off Finnish prospects, there just haven't been a lot of strong Finnish prospects since. I mean, GMs are not going to take a weak prospect in the 1st round just to make sure that Finland produces a 1st round pick. Now that Finland has started producing solid prospects again, GMs have started to draft them reasonably high once more (Granlund 9th overall in 2010, Armia 16th overall in 2011, Teravainen and Maata 18th and 22nd overall in 2012, and soon to be Barkov, Ristolainen and Lehkonen in 2013).

I haven't seen Finnish prospects regularly go way lower than you'd expect based on their talent, as is so common with Russian prospects. In the years where Finns have not gone high in the draft, they've generally just not had any good prospects. When they do produce good prospects, they go about as high as they should. If Barkov is talented enough to go in the 2nd-6th overall range (and I think he is), then he'll go somewhere around 2nd-6th. I agree that his shot at 1st overall is quite slim, but only because MacKinnon is such a strong prospect, it'll be tough for anyone to unseat him.
I both agree and disagree.

Tukonen, Nokelainen and Jesse Niinimäki (#15 in 2002, although it was a strong draft for us in general) are the busts that I first thought of. I'm not including the goalies here, because their development seems to be so much harder to predict in general.

It is our own fault that there has been so little talent until these past couple of years, as systematic mistakes were made with player development for about a decade and these mistakes weren't fixed until a few years ago. There could've been talent there, but it was killed by a bad development system.

The Swedes had the same problem, but they fixed their system earlier, and these young guys are products of that improved system. Our top talent is younger than theirs because only in the recent years have they been allowed to really develop. Still, regardless of the improvements in our development system, we (and NHL teams) have yet to see actual proof of it in the form of success in the NHL. Making those mistakes earlier in player development cost us potentially good players and didn't do us any favors in the eyes of NHL teams, either. There's about a 10-year gap between our two youngest most talented classes and it's more than just regular variation in talent.

If I was a GM, I'd feel more comfortable drafting a kid produced by a system I've seen can produce decent NHLers rather than a system that has began to produce solid prospects lately but no NHL regulars as of yet, assuming the talent level was roughly the same. That's my main point, really. I'm not saying less talented guys should or would be drafted early because of their nationality.

Many people were surprised Teräväinen didn't go in the top10 (I never expected him to, but others did) or even top15. The Blackhawks seemed surprised he was still available at #18.

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11-17-2012, 04:54 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
NJD Director of scouting David Conte stated that Barkov has ice in his veins because of his calmness and decision making with the puck and seemed to get very impressed. Button says after yesterdays game that Barkov is serious contender for #1 overall and it is 3 horse race right now.
Craig Button ‏@CraigJButton

Last tweet of night. 1:45 AM in Finland! I feel Aleksander Barkov merits serious consideration for 1st overall in 2013 NHL Draft. He's good!

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11-17-2012, 06:26 AM
  #331
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All these suggestions about there being a "finnish factor" is ridiculous.

Why is there a russian factor? It's there because there's a legitimate concern that a player drafted won't come over to the NHL because he's already getting very good money in their home country, in a very skilled leageu, in the same environment they've played their whole life. It's pretty logical actually.

Why is there a finnish factor? Because finland hasn't produced NHLers in a long time? Is this how scouts talk to each other: "Wow, this kid Barkov, he's really good, but let's not draft him because he's finnish and they haven't produced NHLers in a long time and that totally affects how Barkov will improve".

Scouts look at each player as an individual, they don't think like, Oh, Jesse Niinimäki was a bust, we can't draft Lehkonen with our 20th pick. They look at the facts, they don't give much value to superstition. The reason Finland hasn't produced is because our junior system has been very lacking in the previous years, and it's only now picking up. That doesn't mean an organisation would hesitate to draft a Finn. It's completely illogical thinking to decide on wether to draft a player based on how his countrymen have been doing in the past, because Jesse Niinimäki and Petteri Nokelainen also being Finnish has nothing to do how Barkov will pan out and thus shouldn't affect how he's drafted.

Also, there haven't even been that many finnish busts. The last time we had a lot of 1st rounders was in 2004, and yeah, two of those guys busted (not sure if Nokelainen is a bust), and in 2001-2002, and those guys developed really well. Since 2004 there we're no 1st round skaters until 2010.

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11-17-2012, 06:30 AM
  #332
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I think the "Finnish factor" only exist at HFBoards. I would like to think scouts recognize the cyclical nature of player development in countries with a smaller talent pool to begin with.

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11-17-2012, 09:17 AM
  #333
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no stream?

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11-17-2012, 09:37 AM
  #334
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Barkov continues his point streak with an assist in the first period. There is 2 more to go.

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11-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  #335
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Barkov seems to be able to keep that 1 PPG pace. Great. He still has a chance for top3.

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11-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #336
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Barkov seems to be able to keep that 1 PPG pace. Great. He still has a chance for top3.
His actual play will affect his draft position more than his pace. Even if his point production drops, he will get drafted high if he plays well overall.

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11-17-2012, 11:32 AM
  #337
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High praise from Button. Nice to see.

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11-17-2012, 12:23 PM
  #338
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I think the "Finnish factor" only exist at HFBoards. I would like to think scouts recognize the cyclical nature of player development in countries with a smaller talent pool to begin with.
This.
For instance, Switzerland wasn't known for developing lots of top-prospects, but then you see Niederreiter in top-5 and Baertschi at #13.

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11-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #339
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http://www.justin.tv/hokinaitti

Stream there. Click the link on the chat and it should open in few seconds.

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11-20-2012, 11:43 AM
  #340
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Barkov seems to score alot of typical NA rebound goals. He just scored 1 again. He will be very effective goal scorer and playmaker in small rink with that size, vision and willingness to go for the rebounds with 110% effort. His game is already pro ready. Not much flashy but simple and effective.

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11-20-2012, 12:02 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Barkov seems to score alot of typical NA rebound goals. He just scored 1 again. He will be very effective goal scorer and playmaker in small rink with that size, vision and willingness to go for the rebounds with 110% effort. His game is already pro ready. Not much flashy but simple and effective.
couldnt agree more

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11-20-2012, 12:09 PM
  #342
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definately a positive that hes getting a lot of dirty goals. Seems to be at the right place quite often

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11-20-2012, 12:17 PM
  #343
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How does Barkov use his size? How about along the boards and in the corners? Any meanness to him?

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11-20-2012, 12:27 PM
  #344
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How does Barkov use his size? How about along the boards and in the corners? Any meanness to him?
Not much meanness in him imo. He uses his size to shield the puck well and since he's tall and uses a long stick he's got a huge reach. In front of the net he's pretty good and you can see he's very strong for a kid his age.

So in that sense he does use his size to his advantage pretty well. He could be more physical and aggressive though. Also I would like to see more crashes to the net from him.

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11-20-2012, 12:33 PM
  #345
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How does Barkov use his size? How about along the boards and in the corners? Any meanness to him?
Not mean, but strong on the puck, wins battles along the boards and in the corners. Think Mikko Koivu.

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11-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #346
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1+1 for Barkov in this game. 24g, 13+13=26.

Neat.

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11-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #347
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Haven't watched recent games from him, does he show any signs of slowing down or fatigue? Since it's already 24 games in, are there really any reasons why his point production would suddenly come to a stop this season? Barring injuries, of course.

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11-20-2012, 12:58 PM
  #348
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Haven't watched recent games from him, does he show any signs of slowing down or fatigue? Since it's already 24 games in, are there really any reasons why his point production would suddenly come to a stop this season? Barring injuries, of course.
I guess he just had a cold streak for points. It's not like he'll ever be a huge point scorer like Crosby or Stamkos etc. Also to my knowledge, he hasn't been bad or anything, can't always score. Barkov is now 5th in points, just four points behind the leader.

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11-20-2012, 01:08 PM
  #349
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I guess he just had a cold streak for points. It's not like he'll ever be a huge point scorer like Crosby or Stamkos etc. Also to my knowledge, he hasn't been bad or anything, can't always score. Barkov is now 5th in points, just four points behind the leader.
I think you misunderstood my post, I didn't criticize Barkov at all, was just wondering that are there really anymore any reasons why he couldn't go on scoring at this pace the whole season.

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11-20-2012, 01:10 PM
  #350
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IMO the only reason for that is his fatigue, since he's not used to play 60 games per season. Tho it would be interesting to see how Barkov could carry his team if Nieminen gets injured, since they have very good chemistry.

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