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C Aleksander Barkov - Tampere Tappara, FEL (2013 Draft) - Part II

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02-05-2013, 01:52 PM
  #951
Gaps
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Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
I truly think Granlund's struggles at the NHL level could drop Barkov's position in the draft.
I think he could fall from the top5 even without Granlund having anything to do with it whatsoever. Both Määttä and Teräväinen fell last year. Määttä was ranked at #10 by TSN and didn't go until #22. I don't think any other team aside from the Wild would've taken Granlund in the top10, and he's the only Finnish top10 draft pick recently.

l still think Barkov will be taken by #10, regardless of what has or will happen with MiG. If that doesn't happen, I'll seriously have to question the intelligence of NHL organizations. Oh well, the team smart enough to draft him would be laughing all the way back home from the draft because they got a fantastic prospect without totally tanking this season.

I predict Ristolainen getting drafted in the 1st round too, but he could easily drop somewhere between 20-30. Why? When has any Finn raised their stock right before the draft or on draft day? Our guys have no idea how to sell themselves to teams showing interest and thus improving their chances within a very short notice. The North Americans know how to do that, and so do the Swedes.
There will be a few surprise picks in the top 10, and those will probably push Ristolainen from the top10.

Granlund's success wouldn't have hurt Barkov's chances, but they're so different as players that any NHL team labeling Barkov as a risky pick because of what Granlund did or didn't do would be unprofessional.

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02-05-2013, 03:38 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
I truly think Granlund's struggles at the NHL level could drop Barkov's position in the draft.
Yes, because they are so similar. Both are of the species 'Homo sapiens' and also they are from Finland.

I can see the scouts thought process:

- Granlund has been weak in NHL
- Granlund is from Finland.. ..Barkov is from Finland
- This means Barkov will be weak in NHL

Am i the only one who thinks this is absolute nonsense?

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02-05-2013, 03:54 PM
  #953
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This kid really impresses me, I want him on the Avs.

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02-05-2013, 04:04 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I predict Ristolainen getting drafted in the 1st round too, but he could easily drop somewhere between 20-30.
I'd be surprised if that happened. My feeling is that he's a likely top-15, possible top-10.

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Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
Am i the only one who thinks this is absolute nonsense?
For the most part I agree with you. The fact that Barkov comes from SM-liiga might subconsciously affect some scouts a bit, but every player is still evaluated separately.

And everyone knew that there was some risk associated with Granlund due to him being small and nothing special as far as speed goes. Plus I think we need to be more patient with him by giving him more time to adapt and find his role. Jiri Hudler for example played his first NHL season at the age of 22/23 and only scored 25 points, but has managed to improve since then.

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02-05-2013, 04:10 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
Yes, because they are so similar. Both are of the species 'Homo sapiens' and also they are from Finland.

I can see the scouts thought process:

- Granlund has been weak in NHL
- Granlund is from Finland.. ..Barkov is from Finland
- This means Barkov will be weak in NHL

Am i the only one who thinks this is absolute nonsense?

I'm with you...people seem to be drawing too many unrelated parallels, while losing complete focus on the player in question...like, those who claim that Seth Jones shouldn't be 1st overall because EJ didn't live up to expectations.

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02-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I'm with you...people seem to be drawing too many unrelated parallels, while losing complete focus on the player in question...like, those who claim that Seth Jones shouldn't be 1st overall because EJ didn't live up to expectations.
Criticism of Jones is more based on the wide fact that the next big dman is rarely if ever are picked in the top 10.

Which shows there's a deficiency in scouting dmen in juniors about how their skill will translate to the NHL.

Just off the top of my head there is Suter, "Phaneuf", Pietrangelo(butchered the spelling likely), and Doughty.

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02-05-2013, 04:21 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by edd1e View Post
Yes, because they are so similar. Both are of the species 'Homo sapiens' and also they are from Finland.

I can see the scouts thought process:

- Granlund has been weak in NHL
- Granlund is from Finland.. ..Barkov is from Finland
- This means Barkov will be weak in NHL

Am i the only one who thinks this is absolute nonsense?
Totally agree with you. Koivu brothers ain't weak and they are from Finland, think its more of a vision of how north america sees euro players, not only finnish players.

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02-05-2013, 04:27 PM
  #958
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Oh stop it already!

The Hell on Wheels from Helsinki, the Fondicating Finnish, the Finnisher, the Bark and All Bite, Sasha the Center, you are looking at a 3rd overall pick right here!

Aleksander Barkov, **** that, call him Aleksander Jackov, cause I get a hard on from his play, this guy is sex on ice. Let me tell ya, people crapping on his skating, this guy is cerebral in his approach, like last year, Grigorenko like, Thornton like, won't out skate you, but he'll out think you.

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02-05-2013, 04:39 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Criticism of Jones is more based on the wide fact that the next big dman is rarely if ever are picked in the top 10.

Which shows there's a deficiency in scouting dmen in juniors about how their skill will translate to the NHL.

Just off the top of my head there is Suter, "Phaneuf", Pietrangelo(butchered the spelling likely), and Doughty.

Personally, I think it has more to do with their development curve...if prospects were drafted 1 year older I think the defenders would be drafted more in line to where they should have been, relatively speaking of course...but I digress.

I'm surprised Barkov isn't getting more consideration for 1st forward selected...I can't see him falling out of the top 5.

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02-05-2013, 04:56 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Personally, I think it has more to do with their development curve...if prospects were drafted 1 year older I think the defenders would be drafted more in line to where they should have been, relatively speaking of course...but I digress.

I'm surprised Barkov isn't getting more consideration for 1st forward selected...I can't see him falling out of the top 5.
I agree about Barkov.

Though I think really it is a coin flip with defense man.

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02-05-2013, 05:42 PM
  #961
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Leafs take Barkov in a flash, he's a top 5 no doubt, in discussion for top 3. I guess scouts will get a better read on him in the IIHF WHC.

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02-05-2013, 05:57 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
Leafs take Barkov in a flash, he's a top 5 no doubt, in discussion for top 3. I guess scouts will get a better read on him in the IIHF WHC.
Might be that he won't be in Finland's roster.

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02-05-2013, 07:07 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
I truly think Granlund's struggles at the NHL level could drop Barkov's position in the draft.
That is just nonsense. Granlund is struggling mainly because he is being knocked off the puck way too easily and cannot hold onto the puck to save his life. Barkov on the other hand is extremely strong with the puck. He actually uses his big body very well in order to gain space and time on the ice. In Pierre's words "he is a big body presence".

They are completely different types of players anyway. Barkov is a much more complete player of the two having very few weaknesses, whereas Granlund is an undersized and slow (or average speed) center excelling with high hockey IQ and soft hands. Having only an average speed is a terrible recipe for a small(ish) player in the fast paced and physical NHL.

Sharing the same nationality* with Granlund will not result to teams passing up on Barkov at the Draft. If he drops, it will be due to legit reasons.

* = ethnically Barkov is 100 % Russian so maybe teams view him more as a Russian anyway.

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02-05-2013, 09:32 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Jeepers Creeper View Post
That is just nonsense. Granlund is struggling mainly because he is being knocked off the puck way too easily and cannot hold onto the puck to save his life. Barkov on the other hand is extremely strong with the puck. He actually uses his big body very well in order to gain space and time on the ice. In Pierre's words "he is a big body presence".

They are completely different types of players anyway. Barkov is a much more complete player of the two having very few weaknesses, whereas Granlund is an undersized and slow (or average speed) center excelling with high hockey IQ and soft hands. Having only an average speed is a terrible recipe for a small(ish) player in the fast paced and physical NHL.

Sharing the same nationality* with Granlund will not result to teams passing up on Barkov at the Draft. If he drops, it will be due to legit reasons.

* = ethnically Barkov is 100 % Russian so maybe teams view him more as a Russian anyway.
And heaven forbid a guy struggles in his first NHL season...

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02-05-2013, 09:42 PM
  #965
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Might be that he won't be in Finland's roster.
It would not surprise me at all. He'd have few, if any, chances to show what he's capable of in the senior international level before the Worlds. It's very possible that he'll miss the U-18 WJC due to Tappara playing in the SM-Liiga semifinals or even finals. Picking him without any previous experience to the World Championship team would be quite a humongous risk.

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02-06-2013, 06:46 AM
  #966
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It would not surprise me at all. He'd have few, if any, chances to show what he's capable of in the senior international level before the Worlds. It's very possible that he'll miss the U-18 WJC due to Tappara playing in the SM-Liiga semifinals or even finals. Picking him without any previous experience to the World Championship team would be quite a humongous risk.
Humongous risk? We are NOT talking about Olympics here...

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02-06-2013, 06:13 PM
  #967
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Humongous risk? We are NOT talking about Olympics here...
For finnish people the WHC's are like Olympics.

Anyways, just because Granlund isnt physically ready for the NHL quite yet that doesnt mean Barkov wouldnt be at the same age. I mean the guy is huge. But there's a point, very rarely (cant remember any right now) does finnish players do well physically in the NHL soon after being drafted. IMO its because finnish junior players are trained differently and the league is more based on speed even though it is quite physical. But the battles in the corners are much much harder in the NHL. Even for Barkov its going to take some time to dominate along the boards.

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02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
  #968
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For finnish people the WHC's are like Olympics.

Anyways, just because Granlund isnt physically ready for the NHL quite yet that doesnt mean Barkov wouldnt be at the same age. I mean the guy is huge. But there's a point, very rarely (cant remember any right now) does finnish players do well physically in the NHL soon after being drafted. IMO its because finnish junior players are trained differently and the league is more based on speed even though it is quite physical. But the battles in the corners are much much harder in the NHL. Even for Barkov its going to take some time to dominate along the boards.
It's the skating that Barkov's biggest problem on the senior international level. He was having issues with it at the WJC already, granted the game there is much more disorganized North-South hockey at times. It would require lots of injuries or declines from the usual core group or NHL players for him to make the team without having played a single exhibition game before the tournament.

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02-06-2013, 09:58 PM
  #969
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How do you think Barkov would have done this season in the KHL?

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02-07-2013, 02:03 AM
  #970
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How do you think Barkov would have done this season in the KHL?
A hell of a defensive 3rd/4th line center with a few points to go with it as there is little/no chance he would have made it to any teams top line.

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02-14-2013, 07:00 AM
  #971
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He certainly had a long rest now, previous game was on 2nd of Feb. And next one tomorrow on 15th, nearly two weeks there, nice schedule.

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02-14-2013, 07:15 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
I think he could fall from the top5 even without Granlund having anything to do with it whatsoever. Both Määttä and Teräväinen fell last year. Määttä was ranked at #10 by TSN and didn't go until #22. I don't think any other team aside from the Wild would've taken Granlund in the top10, and he's the only Finnish top10 draft pick recently.

l still think Barkov will be taken by #10, regardless of what has or will happen with MiG. If that doesn't happen, I'll seriously have to question the intelligence of NHL organizations. Oh well, the team smart enough to draft him would be laughing all the way back home from the draft because they got a fantastic prospect without totally tanking this season.

I predict Ristolainen getting drafted in the 1st round too, but he could easily drop somewhere between 20-30. Why? When has any Finn raised their stock right before the draft or on draft day? Our guys have no idea how to sell themselves to teams showing interest and thus improving their chances within a very short notice. The North Americans know how to do that, and so do the Swedes.
There will be a few surprise picks in the top 10, and those will probably push Ristolainen from the top10.

Granlund's success wouldn't have hurt Barkov's chances, but they're so different as players that any NHL team labeling Barkov as a risky pick because of what Granlund did or didn't do would be unprofessional.
oh please, please! let fall ristolainen and barkov to 20. red wings will thank you so much.

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02-14-2013, 08:08 AM
  #973
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A hell of a defensive 3rd/4th line center with a few points to go with it as there is little/no chance he would have made it to any teams top line.
That was more or less the projection of Ryan Getzlaf, back then! Only time will tell.

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02-14-2013, 09:18 AM
  #974
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That was more or less the projection of Ryan Getzlaf, back then! Only time will tell.
Henkine was answering a question on how Barkov would do in the KHL right now, not projecting his NHL career. And he was probably correct in his KHL assessment, because KHL teams rarely give such young players much responsibility. Even taking a regular spot in the KHL at the age of 17 would be impressive, and I think Barkov would've done that if he played there.

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02-14-2013, 02:32 PM
  #975
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oh please, please! let fall ristolainen and barkov to 20. red wings will thank you so much.
Yeah, Ken Holland is so smart, he will pick them, just like in 2010 when he picked Kuznetsov.

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