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Top 5 Mike Gillis Mistakes

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:09 PM
  #26
vanwest
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
How was he sheltered? Because of his offensive zone starts? Isn't that how an offensive rookie should be used?
I'll wait until I see Kassian play for a bit longer but I agree that this trade could bite us. I think it somewhat depends on just how much behind the scenes stuff there was with Hodgson. If he was starting to demand things then I can see why Gillis would want to move him. In a team sport you need everyone buying in to the team. We'll probably never know all of the facts.

One thing that I will say on Hodgson is that after the trade I watched a fair amount of Sabres' games and he was awful defensively. Where he looked very good was on the powerplay even though many of the Sabres didn't finish off his great set ups.

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10-15-2012, 12:11 PM
  #27
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My top 5 in no particular order:
1) Ehrhoff. Should have re-signed him. His salary demands and term now seem quite reasonable what with other dman signings this offseason.
2) re-signing AV. We need a fresh perspective. He has taken the team as far as he can at this point. With the maturity and leadership of this core, we could have handled a coaching change to an 'inferior' option and still come out on top because of an infusion of new ideas.
3) Luongo's contract. Has Aquaman's fingerprints all over it, but he should have stood firm.
4) Making Lu captain. Gimmicky. Lu's psyche didn't need it and there's a reason goalies aren't captains.
5) Ballard trade, not because of the player we gave up but the player we received in return and the 1st rounder it cost (Howden).

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10-15-2012, 12:12 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I'll wait until I see Kassian play for a bit longer but I agree that this trade could bite us. I think it somewhat depends on just how much behind the scenes stuff there was with Hodgson. If he was starting to demand things then I can see why Gillis would want to move him. In a team sport you need everyone buying in to the team. We'll probably never know all of the facts.
It already has bitten us. Hodgson was producing offensively while Kassian didn't. Our offense was our Achilles heel once again in the playoffs.

I have no problems with trading Hodgson if those issues are true, but the timing of the trade was poor.

Also, I question how much of those issues were self inflicted by AV's big mouth?

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10-15-2012, 12:16 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It already has bitten us. Hodgson was producing offensively while Kassian didn't. Our offense was our Achilles heel once again in the playoffs.

I have no problems with trading Hodgson if those issues are true, but the timing of the trade was poor.

Also, I question how much of those issues were self inflicted by AV's big mouth?
We sold high on Hodgson; he was traded as his hot streak was coming to a close (rookie of the month in January, and just a few points in Februrary).

And if Pahlsson was killed by Stoll in the playoffs, I can only image what Stoll would do to Hodgson. The matchup would have been even worse, if Carter/Richards was matched up against Hodgson...

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:23 PM
  #30
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We sold high on Hodgson; he was traded as his hot streak was coming to a close (rookie of the month in January, and just a few points in Februrary).

And if Pahlsson was killed by Stoll in the playoffs, I can only image what Stoll would do to Hodgson. The matchup would have been even worse, if Carter/Richards was matched up against Hodgson...
In the end, I agree that having Hodgson would not have helped us against LA. Whatever scoring he added would have been offset by his weak defensive play.

In the longer term though I see Hodgson developing into a better defensive player as he has a great work ethic. I'm more interested in looking at the Hodgson/Kassian trade in a couple of more years.

Maybe Gillis' biggest mistake was thinking that Pahlsson had much left in the tank. I think this was wishful thinking.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:27 PM
  #31
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In the end, I agree that having Hodgson would not have helped us against LA. Whatever scoring he added would have been offset by his weak defensive play.

In the longer term though I see Hodgson developing into a better defensive player as he has a great work ethic. I'm more interested in looking at the Hodgson/Kassian trade in a couple of more years.

Maybe Gillis' biggest mistake was thinking that Pahlsson had much left in the tank. I think this was wishful thinking.
I see Hodgson developing into an above average 2nd-line centre, while Kassian into a top-6 powerforward. Would love to have both on the team, but Kassian fits this team's needs more, as we still have Henrik and Kesler for the next few years. I don't think daddy Hodgson wanted him to stay in Vancouver much longer anyway.

I still think we should have tried to get Ott, but since they were asking for Hodgson...maybe we could have given them a counter-proposal?

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10-15-2012, 12:33 PM
  #32
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Maybe Gillis' biggest mistake was thinking that Pahlsson had much left in the tank. I think this was wishful thinking.
Didn't think he took that huge a gamble (cost us two 4th round picks). Generally the market value of a "rental" for a 3rd line center can be as high as 2nd round pick.

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10-15-2012, 12:35 PM
  #33
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I see Hodgson developing into an above average 2nd-line centre, while Kassian into a top-6 powerforward. Would love to have both on the team, but Kassian fits this team's needs more, as we still have Henrik and Kesler for the next few years. I don't think daddy Hodgson wanted him to stay in Vancouver much longer anyway.

I still think we should have tried to get Ott, but since they were asking for Hodgson...maybe we could have given them a counter-proposal?
It all depends on how Kassian develops. I agree with you that if Kassian is able to become a top 6 power forward this is a great trade as we really need that kind of player. We have the skilled top 6 players already. What we need is some more physical players, IMO. The real question is whether Kassian can become that kind of player. I see him as a higher risk prospect than Hodgson at this point. But that could change once we have him for a year. I'm encouraged by the fact that he's really worked hard on his conditioning.

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10-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Didn't think he took that huge a gamble (cost us two 4th round picks). Generally the market value of a "rental" for a 3rd line center can be as high as 2nd round pick.
It's not so much what we gave up but whether there were better options. I guess that given how many buyers there were at the trade deadline there just wasn't a better option out there.

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10-15-2012, 12:42 PM
  #35
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I'd say Gillis's actions at the deadline last year have to be up there. The team was one or two pieces away from making another run and MG and he blew it. Whether or not you think Kassian was good value for Hodgson, that move could have been made in the offseason. It was never going to help the team right away. Pahlsson's best hockey was behind him and in no way addressed the team's need for scoring. The team also needed another competent defenceman and MG did not acquire one.

I just couldn't understand his decisions on that day. Poor judgement is the only explanation I have for them, which is worrisome.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It already has bitten us. Hodgson was producing offensively while Kassian didn't. Our offense was our Achilles heel once again in the playoffs.

I have no problems with trading Hodgson if those issues are true, but the timing of the trade was poor.

Also, I question how much of those issues were self inflicted by AV's big mouth?
I'm going to have to agree with Y2K on this one.

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10-15-2012, 12:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Chubros View Post
I'd say Gillis's actions at the deadline last year have to be up there. The team was one or two pieces away from making another run and MG and he blew it. Whether or not you think Kassian was good value for Hodgson, that move could have been made in the offseason. It was never going to help the team right away. Pahlsson's best hockey was behind him and in no way addressed the team's need for scoring. The team also needed another competent defenceman and MG did not acquire one.

I just couldn't understand his decisions on that day. Poor judgement is the only explanation I have for them, which is worrisome.
My response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
We sold high on Hodgson; he was traded as his hot streak was coming to a close (rookie of the month in January, and just a few points in Februrary).

And if Pahlsson was killed by Stoll in the playoffs, I can only image what Stoll would do to Hodgson. The matchup would have been even worse, if Carter/Richards was matched up against Hodgson...

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10-15-2012, 12:47 PM
  #38
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It all depends on how Kassian develops. I agree with you that if Kassian is able to become a top 6 power forward this is a great trade as we really need that kind of player. We have the skilled top 6 players already. What we need is some more physical players, IMO. The real question is whether Kassian can become that kind of player. I see him as a higher risk prospect than Hodgson at this point. But that could change once we have him for a year. I'm encouraged by the fact that he's really worked hard on his conditioning.
Kassian is a higher risk prospect, but his ceiling is that much rarer. I'll take this gamble, as we don't have any other prospects in our pipeline with the same type of ceiling as Kassian.

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10-15-2012, 12:50 PM
  #39
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I'd say Gillis's actions at the deadline last year have to be up there. The team was one or two pieces away from making another run and MG and he blew it. Whether or not you think Kassian was good value for Hodgson, that move could have been made in the offseason. It was never going to help the team right away. Pahlsson's best hockey was behind him and in no way addressed the team's need for scoring. The team also needed another competent defenceman and MG did not acquire one.

I just couldn't understand his decisions on that day. Poor judgement is the only explanation I have for them, which is worrisome.
The one item I take issue with is whether Hodgson would have made a difference in the playoffs. After watching him in the stretch run in Buffalo he was by far their worst defensive player. As a third line center he would have got eaten alive by LA. Which means that he would have had to be on the fourth line and second power play. I doubt that really improves the team.

To me the issue of Kassian vs Hodgson is a long term issue. I don't think the trade had much of an impact in the short term ie the playoffs. Hodgson gave us extra offence but at the expense of worse defence. Against LA that owuld not have worked in our favour.

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10-15-2012, 12:51 PM
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The one item I take issue with is whether Hodgson would have made a difference in the playoffs. After watching him in the stretch run in Buffalo he was by far their worst defensive player. As a third line center he would have got eaten alive by LA. Which means that he would have had to be on the fourth line and second power play. I doubt that really improves the team.
The only impact I see him having was on the 2nd unit powerplay, but then again, we need to have Edler's brain functional before Hodgson even touches the puck...

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10-15-2012, 12:53 PM
  #41
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For those saying he should have let AV go, who would have replaced him? Ron Wilson?

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10-15-2012, 12:55 PM
  #42
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The only impact I see him having was on the 2nd unit powerplay, but then again, we need to have Edler's brain functional before Hodgson even touches the puck...
Too true!
We had way too many players with brain problems and Edler was one of the worst.
We needed the team to take one game in Vancouver to buy time until Daniel got back. It's pretty disappointing that they couldn't do that. But that's a whole other thread.....

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10-15-2012, 12:55 PM
  #43
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I'd say Gillis's actions at the deadline last year have to be up there. The team was one or two pieces away from making another run and MG and he blew it.
How can you say that when you have no idea what was on the table? Should we have traded Hodgson for Steve Ott?

If anything, I think Gillis deadline looks better now. He didn't give anything for rentals and made a trade for the future. In hindsight, it wasn't going to happen for us last season. The long run took too big a toll, just like it did to Boston.

Now we have a power forward prospect, found that defensemen that we needed... signed to a good deal... for nothing, and will hopefully have a healthy team coming off a long offseason to train.

I don't know how you can say we were a couple pieces away from going on a run, this team won't go anywhere with Kesler and Edler playing like crap.

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10-15-2012, 12:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
We sold high on Hodgson; he was traded as his hot streak was coming to a close (rookie of the month in January, and just a few points in Februrary).

And if Pahlsson was killed by Stoll in the playoffs, I can only image what Stoll would do to Hodgson. The matchup would have been even worse, if Carter/Richards was matched up against Hodgson...
I know MG tried to justify the trade by saying the team had built Hodgson up and then sold high, but that was just him deflecting criticism. I think you have to look at how Hodgson's career progresses to judge if the team truly sold high on this player.

Maybe you're right that Hodgson would have been outclassed by Stoll, but I also think Hodgson's defensive shortcomings have been vastly exaggerated since he was shipped out. Perhaps Hodgson's positive effect on the 2nd unit PP would have outweighed Pahlsson's superior defensive play.

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10-15-2012, 01:01 PM
  #45
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I know MG tried to justify the trade by saying the team had built Hodgson up and then sold high, but that was just him deflecting criticism. I think you have to look at how Hodgson's career progresses to judge if the team truly sold high on this player.

Maybe you're right that Hodgson would have been outclassed by Stoll, but I also think Hodgson's defensive shortcomings have been vastly exaggerated since he was shipped out. Perhaps Hodgson's positive effect on the 2nd unit PP would have outweighed Pahlsson's superior defensive play.
I take your point that there is sometimes a tendency for a team and especially fans to justify a trade after the fact. In fact, I'll confess that if a Sabres fan had offered a Kassian for Hodgson deal I would have laughed at him.

Having said that, the one thing that we will never know I guess is whether Hodgson was impacting the team with his demands for more ice time.
On the defensive part of his game, I noticed the weakness with the Sabres when he was put in the top 6. He had by far the worst plus/minus after the trade. How much of that was attributable to playing a bigger role with new teammates is hard to say. However, he looked lost in his own end. I don't think AV would have put up with that in the playoffs.

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10-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #46
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How can you say that when you have no idea what was on the table? Should we have traded Hodgson for Steve Ott?

If anything, I think Gillis deadline looks better now. ...
Hal Gill for a 1st round pick was a pretty good indication of what the market was like. My attitude is that the window is only open for so long with this group, and sometimes you just have to go for it. You can't fail if you don't try.

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10-15-2012, 01:03 PM
  #47
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OP: Agreed with Weaver, Ballard.

The rest not so much. I'll give a more in-depth analysis after class.

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10-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #48
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I know MG tried to justify the trade by saying the team had built Hodgson up and then sold high, but that was just him deflecting criticism. I think you have to look at how Hodgson's career progresses to judge if the team truly sold high on this player.

Maybe you're right that Hodgson would have been outclassed by Stoll, but I also think Hodgson's defensive shortcomings have been vastly exaggerated since he was shipped out. Perhaps Hodgson's positive effect on the 2nd unit PP would have outweighed Pahlsson's superior defensive play.
http://canucksarmy.com/2012/4/24/gil...advanced-stats

Basically confirms that Gillis did sell high; it isn't deflecting criticism if it's true.

His defensive shortcomings as of when we shipped him out were pretty big, and Buffalo had to put Pominville next to him to make up for that.

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10-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #49
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Hal Gill for a 1st round pick was a pretty good indication of what the market was like.
You just made my point, that would have been terrible.

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10-15-2012, 01:08 PM
  #50
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You just made my point, that would have been terrible.
He played well for Nashville. In the end it didn't work out for them, but I don't think that would have been a terrible move considering that Vancouver was poised for another cup run. That move, plus getting something of immediate value for Hodgson could have seen Vancouver hoisting the cup last June.

We'll never know now, though.

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