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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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10-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #276
BroadwayBlues
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That early west coast trip still stands?

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10-16-2012, 02:13 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
That early west coast trip still stands?
We always get shafted by the schedule, so I'd venture a yes (although I have absolutely zero idea ).

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10-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #278
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Wait so how confident are we that the season is starting?

This is for my work, I actually have something pending to finish but its contingent on a deal happening.

It looks like a pretty fair deal and the NHLPA would be stupid to reject it.
More confident than we were this morning, but there's no guarantee. I think at the least everyone believes this is the first real starting point for negotiations and there's a decent chance something gets done

It almost certainly won't be accepted as is, though. Expect some negotiations in the next 7-10 days

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
There have been tweets suggesting the canceled dates would get added to the end of the original schedule.
Let's hope that doesn't happen. That would be one hell of a road trip we'd end the season with.

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10-16-2012, 02:15 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by poeman View Post
Wait so how confident are we that the season is starting?

This is for my work, I actually have something pending to finish but its contingent on a deal happening.

It looks like a pretty fair deal and the NHLPA would be stupid to reject it.
They are almost definitely not going to accept it, but it should be the basis for negotiations.

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10-16-2012, 02:20 PM
  #281
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They already said an extra game would be thrown in every 5 weeks.

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10-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #282
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Wade Redden???

NHL's most recent offer includes cap hit of NHL contracts which are in the minors...brings to question what do you do with Wade Redden then?

His cap hit gives NYR $6.5m less to spend...do you keep him up because his salary affects team regardless or do you send him down anyways and give a kid a chance???


What other teams have this same dilemma???

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10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #283
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Told players on 1-way contracts sent to AHL would count against cap in NHL proposal. However, re-entry waivers would be eliminated.
https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/sta...86657906827264

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10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #284
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This is all speculative until the proposal is actually accepted... if it is accepted.

If the NHLPA agrees and this becomes certain i'll re-open the thread, until that point there isn't a reason to thread each new aspect of the proposal which hasn't even become law yet, and may well continue to be negotiated. As we saw before guys have already been screwing up what is actually in the proposal.

Until then we can keep it and everything about it in the Lockout thread.

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10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
They already said an extra game would be thrown in every 5 weeks.
Who? That would be ridiculous. Spreading out our West coast trip into single day trips from East coast to California.

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10-16-2012, 02:26 PM
  #286
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Some teams are going to have to hussle big time to get under the lower cap.

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10-16-2012, 02:27 PM
  #287
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Who? That would be ridiculous. Spreading out our West coast trip into single day trips from East coast to California.
Rangers are in Vancouver on Nov 26th...the L.A. game could easily be fit in between that day and the Nov 29th game in Nashville.

It can work in theory.

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10-16-2012, 02:29 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Rangers are in Vancouver on Nov 26th...the L.A. game could easily be fit in between that day and the Nov 29th game in Nashville.

It can work in theory.
Okay, but who is saying it?

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10-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #289
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If the cap goes down to the $61.7 or whatever number that is being thrown around, how is a team like the Wild going to fit below? Who are they going to buyout? Cullen? Gilbert?

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10-16-2012, 02:30 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Rangers are in Vancouver on Nov 26th...the L.A. game could easily be fit in between that day and the Nov 29th game in Nashville.

It can work in theory.
Assuming the Staples Center is available then, yes it could work. I have to imagine they have some sort of computer algorithm that can automatically make a schedule based on venue availability and minimizing travel.

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10-16-2012, 02:31 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Some teams are going to have to hussle big time to get under the lower cap.
Where will the cap be set? None of that has been discussed. The NHL proposed in their 2nd proposal the cap starting at $58M in year 1,$60M in year 2 and $62M in year 3. Nothing has been leaked about today's proposal including any upper limits.

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10-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
More confident than we were this morning, but there's no guarantee. I think at the least everyone believes this is the first real starting point for negotiations and there's a decent chance something gets done

It almost certainly won't be accepted as is, though. Expect some negotiations in the next 7-10 days
Okay, thanks...I know my friends at HFboards would know some of the gritty details of this.
I think having things finally pick up should be good for us. November 2nd for the first game is right around the corner. So I assume there is a deadline for this agreement from the NHLPA side

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10-16-2012, 02:34 PM
  #293
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Probably to some extent but I think they are on record as being against changing contract structures.

I don't think they'd mind some specific rules about what you mentioned, but I think they like the really long deals with big money, if they can be swung somehow
Who likes it? the top 5 or 10% of players? I think a greater number would be in favor of structured contracts that won't send the actual dollar amount over the players' revenue share.


Games will be played during the cancelled all star break. maybe a few tacked on at the end. Schedules are made after available dates are found and compatability is determined. It would be much harder to scrap the whole thing then to find an opening during a road trip or during a break. And now, dates have been filled based on the current schedule.

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:35 PM
  #294
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In order to agree to the Nov 2nd deadline (or the offer is off the table according to the NHL) the NHLPA has to agree within 7-10 days max. This gives just enough time to get guys back home from overseas, have a short camp and be ready for Nov 2nd...

I believe we will know in a few days whether we have a season or not...I am confident!

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10-16-2012, 02:37 PM
  #295
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There is also the strange possibility that DiPietro may be at the bargaining table helping end his Islanders tenure. A new CBA, which was discussed again by reps of the NHL and the players association Tuesday in Toronto (without DiPietro in attendance), is still a ways off, but many people around the league believe a new agreement will include an amnesty buyout period, when teams will be able to shed at least one onerous contract.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ator-1.3858751

Craig Custance has written about compliance/amnesty buyouts.

Larry Brooks

Quote:
NYR not waiving Redden as much/more about ensuring he does not get hurt and is thus eligible for amnesty buyout as re saving $ on $5M salary
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie/sta...49272237887488

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:38 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by poeman View Post
Okay, thanks...I know my friends at HFboards would know some of the gritty details of this.
I think having things finally pick up should be good for us. November 2nd for the first game is right around the corner. So I assume there is a deadline for this agreement from the NHLPA side
From the NHL side, really. They want to play an 82 game season and it's said this deal is contingent on that happening. So realistically, they have to work something out soon enough for all the players to get back to their teams and have some sort of abbreviated training camp before the season starts on the 2nd. So to me, that means we're looking at around a week or so to get a deal done with that timeline

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #297
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nyp_brooksie 3:28pm via web
@sportsnetspec so if pa had begun by proposing 70% for players and then reduced today to 60% they'd be the "bigger man?" ok.
Quote:
sportsnetspec 3:37pm via web
@nyp_brooksie larry, someone had to get the ball rolling. That's all we're saying. Put down the pom poms. Nothing to see here...
Thank you, Spector.

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10-16-2012, 02:41 PM
  #298
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But a source close to the negotiations confirmed to THN.com that the definition of HRR would remain the same as it is in the current agreement. Thatís a significant shift for the NHL, one that has the potential to change the tone of negotiations from dismal to, the very least, hopeful.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-optimism.html

So the NHL can't deduct certain things they wanted to deduct

Quote:
1) In the existing CBA, teams can deduct the cost of doing business from HRR. But there are limits. For example, deductions from preseason games or "special games" such as European openers, "shall not in the aggregate exceed fifteen (15) per cent per League Year on a League-wide basis" of the revenues. You can find all of the examples, if you wish, in Article 50 of the current document. The NHL is arguing that costs far exceed these caps.

2) One area of HRR the NHL cannot deduct ANY costs from is luxury suite sales (e.g., paying people to sell them). Everything must be thrown into the pot. Mistake, oversight, whatever - the league would like a re-do.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...gnificant.html

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10-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #299
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Speaking of the cap, do we have the upper and lower limit calculations. I understand the league likes the union idea of tying it to a percentage rather than a fixed amount.

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10-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #300
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Brooks' problem is that he wants/expects the players to actually win...as in, keep the deal they have or get a better one, and that just won't realistically ever happen. The owners won't suddenly cave and go back to the old CBA. Maybe that's a defeatist mental attitude on my part but I don't think I'm off base

Yes, the players still get screwed, just less screwed

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