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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:48 PM
  #401
HatTrick Swayze
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Any other reports of HRR changes other than Montador? Not sure how big the spin factor is here.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:53 PM
  #402
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Not only is NHL proposing 5 year limit on player contract length, it's proposing the yearly salary variance can't be more than 5 per cent.
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...53784625963008

The NBA has something similar. Built in salary increases. NBA also has contract term limits.

Quote:
In other words, a multi-year deal with an AAV of $10M would on a year by year basis not go up or down by more than $500K.
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...54831712989184

Quote:
That 5 year term limit and the 5 per cent variance restriction are aimed at eliminating back-diving contracts, a primary NHL concern
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...55400536100864

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10-16-2012, 06:58 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...53784625963008

The NBA has something similar. Built in salary increases. NBA also has contract term limits.



https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...54831712989184
This is to prevent cap circumvention, correct?

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10-16-2012, 07:04 PM
  #404
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If this means the end of retirement contracts which it seems to, then I am a huge fan. Wasn't even a huge fan of the way we signed Brad Richards to a retirement contract.

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10-16-2012, 07:04 PM
  #405
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NBA

Quote:
• 2005 CBA: Six years with 10.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; five years with 8 percent raises for other players. Maximum salaries are approximately 25, 30 or 35 percent of the salary cap, depending on the player's years of service.

• 2011 CBA: Five years with 7.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; four years with 4.5 percent raises for other players (including all sign-and-trade transactions). The maximum salaries are the same as the 2005 CBA, except players coming off their rookie scale contracts qualify for the 30 percent maximum if they meet certain criteria. Minimum and rookie scale salaries are frozen near their 2010-11 levels until revenues rise enough that the reduction is proportional to the 12 percent reduction in the overall system.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...pares-last-one

NHL is at 5%

Larry Bird is re-signing your own players.

Teams can re-sign their players to 5 year contracts and free agents get 4 year contracts.

NHL should adopt that. Teams can sign their own player for a longer term than a free agent.

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10-16-2012, 07:05 PM
  #406
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In NBA, max contract length is 5 years (own FA) or 4 (someone else's). Max yr-by-yr raise is 7.5 per cent. NHL offer modeled after that.
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/stat...57384764870656

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10-16-2012, 07:09 PM
  #407
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If player comes out of entry level 1 yr earlier, is 1 yr further away from salary arb and UFA, less pressure on teams to give big contract
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...57657566597120

Arbitration years. Very expensive. Teams didn't use their leverage in the last CBA. Look at the Skinner contract. He got over $4M in his non-arb year. Now the NHL teams will give the players $4M per in both non-arb years.

Quote:
#Blackhawks NHLPA rep Steve Montador: "There’s a handful of things we weren’t in favor of and the entry-level system is the biggest one.”
https://twitter.com/adamjahns/status/258358513917644800

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10-16-2012, 07:28 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...57657566597120

Arbitration years. Very expensive. Teams didn't use their leverage in the last CBA. Look at the Skinner contract. He got over $4M in his non-arb year. Now the NHL teams will give the players $4M per in both non-arb years.



https://twitter.com/adamjahns/status/258358513917644800
Beh, hopefully that "handful" isn't all that many.

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10-16-2012, 07:48 PM
  #409
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So the NHLPA is saying this is the official "start" of negotiations. I guess they also believe that their first proposal was bull**** as well

I don't think we're seeing 82 games here folks. Subdue your optimism.

I'm still prepared to lose the season, but more optimistic about a 60 or so game year.

Can't wait until the NHLPA convinces everyone again that it's not their "turn" to make an offer, and we have to wait another month for the NHL to come back to the table with an offer again

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10-16-2012, 08:07 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
So the NHLPA is saying this is the official "start" of negotiations. I guess they also believe that their first proposal was bull**** as well

I don't think we're seeing 82 games here folks. Subdue your optimism.

I'm still prepared to lose the season, but more optimistic about a 60 or so game year.

Can't wait until the NHLPA convinces everyone again that it's not their "turn" to make an offer, and we have to wait another month for the NHL to come back to the table with an offer again
Did they serve kool aid at that focus group?

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10-16-2012, 08:09 PM
  #411
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Renaud Lavoie says the $70.2M cap will be for the first two years. Craig Custance had tweeted it was for 1 year.

Quote:
It is much more complex. For example, to ensure a smooth transition, the league would keep the salary cap around $ 70 million for the first two seasons. This is great. But to achieve the objectives of the agreement, players will be forced to close to 20% of their salary in trust (escrow) each season for the last four years of the agreement.
Quote:
By the way, it is possible that 82-game season begins between 10 and 15 November as well. Then he must breathe through the nose, because may well live much emotion in the next 10 days.
http://translate.google.com/translat...49461%2Fpublic

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10-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #412
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#NHLPA will give owners counter proposal on Thursday...will meet tomorrow to fine tune proposal
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...81621462462466

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10-16-2012, 08:42 PM
  #413
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NHL offer today at 50-50...Biggest issue is to honour existing contracts...players will get full value of contract in deferred dollars.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...81788722892800

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10-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #414
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good news that a counter proposal is coming back right away.

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10-16-2012, 08:58 PM
  #415
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Clarification on entry level deals. NHL asking for 2 year deal but could become 4. Rookies must play complete seasons for it to count.
https://twitter.com/LouisJean_TVA/st...85332511330304

Complete seasons? NHL seasons?

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10-16-2012, 09:03 PM
  #416
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There were several contradicting reports out there Tuesday regarding the entry-level system, but multiple sources confirmed the new proposal would see ELS go from three years to two years in length. The one caveat is that if you’re a player for example that’s coming from college and joining your NHL team late in the season -- think Chris Kreider of the Rangers -- that doesn’t count against your two-year, entry-level commitment. You would still have to play two full seasons under an entry-level deal. What the offer Tuesday laid out is two full seasons of entry level.
Quote:
There were conflicting reports about the dynamics or definition of hockey-related revenue in this offer. To be clear: the NHL does NOT try to change the definition of HRR in this offer like it attempted to in the summer. These are the same old definitions of HRR used in this new offer.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...agues-proposal

Tell that to Steve Montador.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:29 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
He needs to just shut his mouth at this point.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:43 PM
  #418
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He needs to just shut his mouth at this point.
Agreed

But he is a hardliner on PA side

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:08 PM
  #419
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Good news a counter proposal is coming just Thursday, two days later.

HOPEFULLY the counter proposal is within reason to this one, enough so to meet halfway between the two and get hockey started November 2nd. I don't see how at this point a deal can't be worked out within a week or two's time. Sure, there are some things I'm sure NHLPA isn't happy with, but just fine-tune them and be done with it.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #420
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More info on the newest proposal.

Quote:
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
More on NHL Rev Sharing. Pool will be determined yearly by a Revenue Sharing Committee. The NHLPA will have representation and input.
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Good news a counter proposal is coming just Thursday, two days later.

HOPEFULLY the counter proposal is within reason to this one, enough so to meet halfway between the two and get hockey started November 2nd. I don't see how at this point a deal can't be worked out within a week or two's time. Sure, there are some things I'm sure NHLPA isn't happy with, but just fine-tune them and be done with it.
Thurs will tell everyone what's in store. If the NHLPA reaches for the sun it could get ugly. It'll be very interesting. I honestly feel like they have to do something impressive or at least creative or the owners may scorch the earth.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:18 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
More info on the newest proposal.
Yeesh, $60Mil. Glen will need to work some magic.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:33 PM
  #423
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Yeesh, $60Mil. Glen will need to work some magic.
Aren't we already under 60M?

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10-16-2012, 10:42 PM
  #424
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Aren't we already under 60M?
Without DZ signed yes. Either way we are fine for this year, more thinking about the next 2 offseasons when we have to resign the majority of the core.

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10-16-2012, 10:48 PM
  #425
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With everything in place won,t 11/2 be too early to start. I figure around 11/15. If it goes through in 10 days.

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